Scissor Beak

[hiriki]

Hello!

I just brought in a neglect case whom I have named Bitty, she's a lutino cockatiel and kind of scruffy. Two missing toes, of her remaining toes two are missing the top joint, she has bumblefoot atm, covered in dry blood, aaaaand... a pretty serious case of scissor beak.

Just got her in her cage yesterday, and of course it's a huge shift from a filthy cage to one that is clean and well maintained, so it's possible she's just anxious, but I haven't seen any evidence of her eating. I think she had one single bite of banana when I ate it in front of her and offered a piece but I'm not quite sure. I also offered smoothie with all kinds of goodies inside, rice & eggs, seed mix, legume mix, and pellets. No evidence of her touching anything.

This is the first time I've brought in a case like this. My other birds for the most part were well socialized and well cared for (relatively) when I got them... so I'm not sure if there's other things I could try.

I spoke with the vet and already took a lot of cage accessories out of her cage to match it a bit with the bare cage she came from, but more than anything I want to make sure she eats!

The vet has already seen her and didn't think the scissor beak needed immediate attention, but I suppose it could be interrupting her eating too... Click through for the images here: [1] [2]

So: has anyone cared for a scissor beak case before? What does recovery look like, and is there any way I can speed it up? Even if there's no fix I assume I can help her correct it at least a little, it's quite serious. Also, any bumblefoot suggestions? I'm using natural wood perches, I also have a rope perch but it's out of the cage atm so the cage will more closely reflect what the previous one looked like. I'll reintroduce it sometime next week.

Thanks!

 

[MooshieBird]

I have no experience with scissor beak, I just wanted to thank you for taking in a case like that. It's relieving to see Bitty going to a caring home. I wouldn't worry over cage size, and with her foot problems a smaller cage with less fall distance may be a good thing.

 

[hiriki]

It's been a whirlwind couple of days preparing my home for her, then going to the store to get her after I got the tip that she was being neglected, haggling the store owner down so I didn't feel like I was rewarding this kind of treatment... immediate vet care, etc etc. I'm just starting to wind down from the adrenaline but I can tell she's still pretty high anxiety. I can't blame her!

It was terrible though. When I picked her up, there were so many birds that really needed care. But I'm very limited in what I can do. I've called some phone numbers but haven't found a single hit in terms of someone who's able and willing to hold a small business accountable for this kind of behavior... it's frustrating.

Thank you for the vote of confidence though, I intend to do right by Bitty <3

 

[Aquila]

She's probably just stressed, so just keep an eye on her like you are. You might try covering two thirds of the cage for a little bit to help her feel safe. Offer some millet for now just to try and get her eating.

As for her beak, I don't think it looks terrible, and it might correct itself as she has toys to play with and can wear it down herself, and getting better nutrition. As long as it's not affecting her ability to eat, she's fine for a few weeks until she settles in and isn't so stressed out, because the vet treating it would just be an extra level of stress on her right now.

To treat, they usually trim and file it to make sure it aligns properly and she can eat comfortably. There's no real recovery time outside of stress related.

I don't know if she got bloodwork or a fecal done, but I'm betting she has some nutritional deficiencies that could be exacerbating the problem, and those could take a while to correct and show in her beak, but don't worry.

For the bumblefoot, my Sydney came to me with horribly infected feet, so I understand. What I did might not entirely apply because he was a lump of a bird and not active at all, I could do almost anything to him. Initially I soaked his feet in warm water and reptile soak, which is aloe, glycerin and salt usually. This helped me lightly remove any dead skin on his feet and clean off and poop and other debris that was stuck without pulling or hurting him. I dried them well and he mostly slept with me (on top of a pet carrier with a towel about a foot off the ground) because he couldn't perch at all. I tried to give him as many flat, soft surfaces as I could until his feet healed, and continued soaking and cleaning his feet every day for a week, and then every other day until he was keeping them clean on his own.

You can try misting, but I would try to at least clean them once, and possibly provide a dish of water so she can bathe herself. It's possible she might need an antibiotic, but you would need to ask your vet. Keep everything in the cage clean, and consider putting something soft down that she can sit on if her feet hurt. Sometimes if you look in the small animal sections of pet stores, they carry flat perch type products. Most of the time, as long as they're getting a variety of perching surfaces, shapes and sizes, bumblefoot resolves easily because there's no longer constant pressure on those same areas of the foot. There may be some scarring depending on how long it's been going on for, so as you tame her, try to work with her feet as much as you can.

 

[hiriki]

Thank you for the scissor beak info!! That's very good to hear. I hope I can get her eating the smoothie my other birds are on--it has Harrison's in it, along with a bunch of dark leafy greens, and it's done wonders for my other birds. There's always a period of "what the hell is this," first, though...

I did as many tests as the vet felt comfortable, which was ultimately the fecal and then a test that involved getting a sample off of her eyelid for some kind of viral infection which is contagious. She described it as "bird chlamydia." She didn't want to do blood work because for how terrible, dirty and bloody this bird looked, she had a TON of energy, so she was nonstop struggling and very stressed. I was happy to see her kicking around but definitely she was distraught. I do plan on bloodwork eventually before introducing her to my existing flock.

Luckily her bumblefoot isn't too bad either, and my conure has messed up feet and is unable to perch, so I do have some flat perches and flat perch vendors I know of off the top of my head. She only has one open blister that I could see, and it's probably in part due to her not being able to perch well without all of her toes in working order.

As for the bath that's totally something I intend to do. Actually, with that suggestion I'll probably swap her small water dish with my doves' water dish temporarily, as theirs is much bigger. That way she can splash. She doesn't really seem to... want to splash, but I'd appreciate it if she would, haha. I don't have a mister at the moment as my dedicated water mister has been filled with bird safe antibiotic as of about a week ago (d'oh) but that's a quick walgreens trip to fix.

 

[riddick07]

Scissor beak doesn’t have a tendency to fix itself. Sometimes corrective trimming can work but you might end up getting regular trims for the rest of its life. Some surgeries are available but if it can eat it’s a waste of time and money and stress on the animal.

I do grooming on the messed up beaks at the shelter and it’s really nothing too hard. The annoying part is getting the bottom beak when the alignment is really out of wack.

I can’t tell too well on your guy but it looks like someone messed up handfeeding. When they are young their beaks are malleable and too much pressure from the syringe can deform the shape of the beak. I’d guess consistent beak trimmings the rest of the birds life is in your future even though it doesn’t look that bad.

 

[hiriki]

My vet guessed the exact same thing. I'll ask her to show me how to do the grooming, the least stressful option of course would be best.

 

[Aquila]

My vet guessed the exact same thing. I'll ask her to show me how to do the grooming, the least stressful option of course would be best.

It's really not too hard with practice, disposable nail files work well for shaping. Once she gets used to it, you can do a little bit weekly as needed. My vet uses those and glass files, as well as a silicone spatula for them to bite on. Thankfully she's little, when I have to do Sydney's beak, I have to dremel it! I do his beak and nails all at once.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm so glad you rescued her! You're on my hero list.

I'd stick tight with the vet (good for you for having one). I see you're already getting great advice.

Thanks for loving this bird in need, and for sharing the story with us.

 

[hiriki]

I'm having trouble picturing her letting me file her beak with a nail file but here's hoping!

Thanks for all the support and encouraging words. As of now, still no eating, but I'm frying up some more eggs to entice her, and she's certainly vocal today. Good sign!

 

[hiriki]

Hey everyone!

Update: we've improved leaps and bounds today in temperament! Bitty is screaming her little lungs out. She's talking back and forth with me, as well as my other birds. I saw her preening several times which cheers me up as not only is she cleaning up those terribly messy feathers, she also trusts me enough to preen while she can see me, which is nice <3.

New problem: my dad doesn't like the constant screaming! Lol. Because of her quarantine, she's in the living room with him, so he can't just shut the door like he usually can.

Her fecal has already come back crystal clear, not sure what exactly they did or didn't test for but my vet knows I have other birds and assured me she was testing for the things my bird would most likely spread. Another test was done that I haven't gotten results for yet.

The vet of course is closed, I plan on asking them tomorrow, but what do you all think... can I quarantine in the same room? I mean, the problem is I let my current birds out and they'd probably be landing on top of and next to Bitty's cage, so it wouldn't be much of a quarantine. I could possibly put her in my closet and close her in when it's flight time but I doubt she'd like that LOL. Any ideas?

 

[Aquila]

Hey everyone!

Update: we've improved leaps and bounds today in temperament! Bitty is screaming her little lungs out. She's talking back and forth with me, as well as my other birds. I saw her preening several times which cheers me up as not only is she cleaning up those terribly messy feathers, she also trusts me enough to preen while she can see me, which is nice <3.

New problem: my dad doesn't like the constant screaming! Lol. Because of her quarantine, she's in the living room with him, so he can't just shut the door like he usually can.

Her fecal has already come back crystal clear, not sure what exactly they did or didn't test for but my vet knows I have other birds and assured me she was testing for the things my bird would most likely spread. Another test was done that I haven't gotten results for yet.

The vet of course is closed, I plan on asking them tomorrow, but what do you all think... can I quarantine in the same room? I mean, the problem is I let my current birds out and they'd probably be landing on top of and next to Bitty's cage, so it wouldn't be much of a quarantine. I could possibly put her in my closet and close her in when it's flight time but I doubt she'd like that LOL. Any ideas?

Glad to hear good news so soon! She might be noisy now that she's more comfortable and might hear the other birds and is calling for a response.

I would try to wait a little longer with quarantine, just to be sure. I'm not sure if your vet wants to do any additional testing, but I would get the all clear from him first.

When they do a fecal, it's a gram stain. They take a sample on a slide, stain it with two different dyes, usually methylene blue and carbol fushin. This turns the bacteria different colors so they can be identified as gram positive or gram negative. You can also see any parasites or blood cells and such. Gram negative usually indicates some kind of pathogen. They also usually look at the concentration. You may also see spores or yeast.

It's a very basic diagnostic test, usually if it comes back fine, there's no problems, but you also have to take clinical assessment into consideration.

This has some more technical knowledge of gram stains.
Gram's Stain Interpretation

This has even MORE technical knowledge!
https://lafeber.com/vet/basic-cytology-of-the-avian-gastrointestinal-tract/

 

[hiriki]

Thanks!! Yeast is the thing I was most worried about, I saw a horror story on the forums here a few days ago, but they did check for that.

I spoke with the vet today, the plan for now is to keep her where she is until my general health vet is in next on Monday, and then I'll ask her. I suspect the other test results will be back by then too. so now it's just a test of will! I'd love to have her in my room where I'd see her all day! Lol.

 

[riddick07]

I love the dremel for doing the beaks big or small birds. I’ve done Cockatiels, Senegal’s, greys, amazons, macaws, Cockatoo, lory, eclectus, conures, possibly ones I don’t remember with the dremel. I hate using nail files it takes so much longer.

Some of the twisted or partially missing beaks around the shelter. They can both still crack almonds though anything bigger is a no go. I think piccasa could do bigger if she had the motivation lol Thought seeing some thriving scissor beaks might ease some of the worry!

They eat the same sized food as the other macaws. Walnuts just have to be cracked for them. So far the only time reduced food size is needed is when the upper beak is missing. Like we have a grey that eats conure food and a Senegal that eats conure food. We used to have an Amazon that only ate the tiny zupreem parakeet pellets. Strangely enough even with most of the upper beak gone they all still have the ability to give you a good pinch when trying to bite lol

 

[Aquila]

I'm glad you love the dremel too! One of my best investments when I was a bather/groomer. I feel like I have so much more control than with anything else, it might take a little more time but I think you get a better result. Lola, one of my other BFA's is missing two toes on the back of one foot so her front nails grow long and fast, the dremel has made a world of a difference in controlling them.

Do you use a sandpaper bit or a carbide?

 

[hiriki]

I checked out a dremel and might invest! First I'll have the vet show me how to do it, if she's comfortable. I'd be worried about messing up..!!

Update though: she's eating! Not just small bites, a real bird meal! I moved her to a new location to see if she'd cheer up and the shift was instant. She's chowing down on some seeds on a plate on the floor of the cage as I type.

I think she avoids the sunflower seeds, too, which I was using as a visual cue of whether she was eating. Maybe her beak is too awkward to crack them? I've never seen a bird avoid sunflower seeds so I assumed she wasn't eating. Lol!

 

[Kentuckienne]

Gus HATES the Dremel, good luck to you, and warning! Someone's bird here died after getting a beak trim, and there was speculation that the Dremel was held the wrong way. Depending on how you hold it, the dust can be thrown down the bird's throat and cause an infection. Just sayin'.

 

[hiriki]

See, that's the kind of thing that would make me nervous to do it on my own. Not specifically that since I didn't realize that particular mistake could happen, but I'd be paranoid I'd mess SOMETHING up, lol.

At any rate I'll ask my vet, since she's eating now I don't think there's a concern for her beak getting in the way of food, and my vet is always really honest with me about what I can and can't do at home, so I'll have a conversation before I make any decisions!