Sammy's welfare

[mh434]

I originally posted this under "bereavement", as a follow-up to my post about the loss of several members of my flock, but believe it should probably be posted under Amazons, as well.

Many of you are familiar with my long-term, ongoing situation with Sammy (under the general post "More Sammy Weirdness".

So...here it is:

I am at the point now where I believe I need to re-home my YNA Amazon Sammy. He became incensed a few years ago when my ex brought a CAG into the house, who instantly became the alpha bird in our large flock. Sammy turned violent toward me (picture several trips to clinics & the emergency ward, and lots of sutures) and, despite all the loving I tried to give him, he has remained unrelenting in his anger and hate for me.

I've tried everything, followed all the suggestions, and read all the writings on this issue, for 4 long years, to regain our once-powerful bond, but he's having none of it.

Add to that that my wife left me 9 months ago (taking our CAG with her, and seriously upsetting the entire flock), and I'm struggling to work enough hours just to pay the bills (not to mention the enormous debts I've been saddled with). I have almost no hours to spend with him. I'm gone, at work, for 12-14 hours a day, including weekends, and the lack of time with him has degraded things further. There is no one else in the house, now, and I live alone.

My concern is not for myself - I have broad shoulders, and can handle pretty much anything - but Sammy's quality of life is sad indeed. When I'm there he spends his time pinning, hissing, flaring, shrieking, and striking at the sides of his cage trying to get at me. It hurts me to see him like this, as we were once inseparable.

He is stressed and agitated constantly. He NEVER relaxes or has a happy, contented moment anymore if I'm in the house.

I'm hoping that if he has a fresh start with a new parront, perhaps he'll be able to form a new one-on-one bond & again have a happy, contented life.

It breaks my heart, and I feel like I'm breaking my solemn promise to him, but I desperately want him to be happy again, like he once was with me.

I don't believe I can keep going this way, sentencing him to another 30-40 years of anger & turmoil.

 

[Laurasea]

I am so sorry to hear of all you are going through.
Until you can find the right home I will share this article on stress with you. It might offer help in the meantime.
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/stress-reduction-for-parrot-companions/

 

[Scott]

You've suffered so much heartache my friend, wish there was a way to turn back the clock with Sammy. My only other suggestion might be to work with an animal behaviorist. Amazons are notoriously stubborn, perhaps there is a way to penetrate his anger?

Perhaps our resident Amazon expert Steven (Sailboat) has ideas. Rehoming may indeed be the least awful solution. Because of that finality, you'd want to be personally convinced every avenue of hope was exhausted.

 

[SailBoat]

I remember the heartache discussion within your past Thread and your long efforts.

Sammy's Welfare: As much as it appears that he hates you now and in the recent past. The likelihood that he will find another that he will 'choose' is questionable, at the least.
If it is just you and Sammy, there are a few opportunities to consider:
- Sell the House and downsize to a point that you do not have to work these crazy hours. Yesss, you are strong and have the strength to work those hours. But, it will wear on you and anger will set in... It's just the reality of the Human situation. We are just not designed to continue to live like this.
- The Move and change in your work schedule 'could' act as a reset for Sammy. Like being dumped in a new home, but with much less stress.
- There has been major changes in Sammy's life, none seem to have worked at maintaining your once great relationship. If anything, they have worked to destroy it.
- Your current Life, if you can call it a life, is not helping either. By cutting your stress and increasing the time you have available for Sammy, it will be interesting where the relationship goes.

Sammy may hate you now! But with the vast reduction in the Stress of your past relationship and the emotions that flowed from it. Plus the other Parrot that is now gone. Plus, taking the current stress and making that go away. There may just be a new starting point.

Think about it...

 

[Anita1250]

I tend to agree with Sailboat. We are not meant to live a live of turmoil and stress. We all need happiness, including you. My late husband used to say " you can't eat the walls". What he meant was that a house is just a house. It won't feed you or clothe you. Nor will it make you happy. Perhaps you could rent it and downsize to somewhere else that is not so expensive. That way, it wouldn't be so final.

The one piece of advice I can give you is not to underestimate Sammy. Yes, right now he is angry and hateful towards you. However, you have become his only human. I believe that, with the proper environment and time, you may be able to find a Sammy that is happy again. Amazons are extremely adaptable. When my husband died, I thought my Sam would never love or trust another man. Well, he LOVES my new husband. It only took him 15 years to do so. LOL

Give yourself a chance to be happy again, and you may just be giving Sammy the same chance. One more try could be the one. Good luck with whichever path you choose.

 

[noodles123]

Birds are stubborn and emotional. He is probably mad, but I believe you can get back what you had if it was there before. It is possible that things could improve in the future given the right set of tools/circumstances. The Grey may have thrown things off for 4 years, but now he is gone and so is your ex, so while your bird cannot articulate that, it is going to upset him and require even more time. Same with your new work schedule

Is there any possibility of someone coming to let him out for a few hours (like, say, a trustworthy college kid who likes him and would do it for like 50 bucks a week while they study/listen to music etc? Maybe throw in a case of beer lol! (not overtly...if they are under 21). You could just leave a well-stocked fridge and a Netflix password and that might suffice for a bird-lover who is short on cash but responsible still--people often are VERY eager for a break from dorm-life...and again....beer or wine in the fridge can't hurt lol) --A lot of boarding places will take them and let them out for $10 a day but I think that is risky given the transitions at hand and (as always) I am paranoid about disease.

Could you wake him up earlier and put him to bed earlier so that you guys could spend time before work and perhaps put him to bed a bit earlier?

The thing is, I still believe it can work depending on how much energy/patience you have available.. Yes---you know your bird, but you are also probably being very self-critical.
I know it seems hopeless and you are feeling so many terribly frustrating emotions...You have both been through a lot, and he may be thinking the same of you at this moment, but you have to give it time, UNLESS you feel that there is no chance of this improving.

You have to do what you need to do for your own emotional health at a certain point, but we are often our own worst critics, so the guilt you are feeling may not actually be appropriate to the situation.

IF you do re-home, I would make sure the person who takes him comes to the house for observed visits---if he doesn't click with them either, then he is likely better off staying with you. Make sure he really likes the person who takes him or it could just cause more of the same.

It took me over a year before I felt like my bird really liked me...For the first month I couldn't touch her...she preferred my ex...then we bonded and things were going well, then my ex and I broke up and it was hard on Noodles...I also started a new job...I get it kind of...Not entirely, but I have an idea.

IF you truly feel that your bird is suffering such neglect that she would be happier with a total stranger/another transition, then maybe it is time. BUT----if you think that you can provide the bare-minimum for a little bit longer, and maybe make a few adjustments to make things work, then I would suggest sticking it out a little longer---but you do know your bird best. I just think you are both greaving and that is hard...makes it hard to see things clearly.

 

[1oldparroter]

I have been accused of insensitivity, but here go's. I have been married 3 time's. Fault is something that is misplaced often as not. I look at a marriage as 50/50, so is a breakup or divorce. Not over the same things but something important to each. I feel for you, your ex and your bird. Now it's just you and the bird who is about like a 2 to 5 year old child. This is an experience you will deal with for life. That IS blunt and not overly sensitive, I admit. You are a broad shouldered man and others before me have offered good advice. The bird (child) needs more time and interaction. Get your life together and consider some of the earlier suggestions and choose what you want / can do. For you, 1st admit that your breakup with the ex wasn't ALL your fault. Focused on being a champion bread winner to the detriment of others but you can change that. The problems now are rehome this bird, suffer and not change; and wait for that problem to start affecting the other birds. YOU CAN CHANGE !!! Only you can implement what needs to be done. You may contact a moderator and call me if you like and don't have a local to discuss with. jh PS: I hope this wasn't too bad or insensitive. jh

 

[noodles123]

I also would like to add the 1oldparroter's post is actually full of positivity, if you can get past the "get your life together" line (which isn't so bad when considered in conjunction with the rest---feels like something my wise grandmother would have said to me). Mostly, I feel like he is saying, don't shoulder the weight of the world, but preserve the small portion of the world you have and:

At the end of the day, unless you think your bird would be better off with another change and a total stranger (in an already upsetting set of circumstances) then don't give up just yet.

 

[wrench13]

You know we all want Sammys well being to be paramount in this , but you also know I have always said that there is the old Sammy in there somewhere. Maybe with the change of your SO and her grey being out, the tension ( which parrots react to ) will ease a bit? I feel for ya.

 

[SailBoat]

Read your older Thread and the memories just flowed.
It was heartbreaking then as the advise failed to make a difference and your pain in the loss of your Sammy's love for you slipped away.

A couple Amazon Realities:
- Amazons are Highly Emotional and really lock into our emotions. The changes; the new Bird, and the likely ongoing confrontations between the Humans can be construed as a push away by the Amazon or better a danger to you. His World is falling apart and so was yours. This 'can' result in your Loving Amazon pushing you to change something by turning against you. Much like the Amazon that bites its bonded partner to force the partner to flee danger 'perceived by Sammy' and not seen by You. Deep stuff, but Amazon logic doesn't always makes sense to Humans.
- When the Stress (perceived or real danger) has passed, Amazons are open to starting over. As you know, there are many steps to starting over. One that is commonly missed is that Amazons live in the here and now. How we react, and most importantly, what the last encounter was like is where they start the next time. They are also very stubborn!!! They want to see that things have changed and that all is really well and stable.
- Amazons are strong believers in: If you can not be with the one your Love... Love the one that you are with... And, yes that can be you, on both sides...
- Also, It is never the fault of the Amazon! It is always the fault of the Human. Darn hard to see and feel when your Amazon is Hate'ing on you. But, we must change our Vantage Point and see it from his Amazon view of Life to be able to see what he needs.
- Expectations! When he elects to take the next step and not one bit faster.

One of the Sad Truths with Human Relationships is that we are commonly blind to what is happening when we are 'Not There!' What those that are now gone 'may' have done to Sammy when you where gone is an unknown and 'may' have played to Sammy's attacking you for not Saving Him... All things are possible in Love and War...

If my ramblings are little more than that... That's fine, but know that everyone here and I, care about you and Sammy. We are not there face to face with Sammy and not physically standing next to you. But know that we care...

 

[FromZeroToEleven]

I would be happy to foster him.
Chris is a big guy, my partner, and loves Amazons. Our friend has a 21 yra old Male and he LOVES Chris.

We have 10 lovebirds, a Sun, Dusky, Nanday and yellow sided green.

We will be building an outdoor aviary, separate areas.

Please contact me though one of the moderators.

Hugs. I've rehomed a dog in the past, I had 6 and she got aggressive. A friend eventually adopted her and she is SOOOO happy now and not locked up in a separate room.

About us: We gave our birds a bedroom AND bathroom. Lol
The bathroom is Paraguay conditions for our recovering Plucker the 10 yr old Nanday Tony Stark. He belonged to a 90 yr old man who passed away.

Chris and I can try!

 

[mh434]

I thank you all for your caring! Unfortunately, there is no possibility of selling my house, downsizing, etc., due to financial realities - unbeknown to me, debts were run up that make selling the house impossible. While I could do so, I would end up homeless, and without a place to live. I've been through it with financial advisers, and that's simply reality now. We have been through every possibility, and there are no other options. Things will get worse for the next few years before there's any hope of improvement. In the meantime, Sammy will have to remain stressed to the breaking point, every minute of every day...and getting moreso.

As for my hours, I go out the door to go to work at 4:30 a.m. and get home at 5:30 - 6:30 p.m. or later.

Sammy is furious at hearing or seeing me. He shrieks and hurls himself at the bars of his cage <hard!> when he sees me, every time he sees me, no matter what time of day, and keeps doing it until I'm out of sight. I fear he will injure himself, or worse, one day. Even if he avoids injury, he has no quality of life. I HATE what this is doing to him.

 

[SailBoat]

My heart is breaking for you good friend.
To be forced into such a position was hatful of your ex. Clearly a choice to inflict pain and heartbreak for you.

I'm not going to go into much on the financial possibilities as you have already spoken to an advisor. The legal remedy has likely been considered as well. It appears that the only tool you have available is to provide the holders of any accounts that your ex created (regardless of who's name is on the document) your ex's contact information, stating that you ex is responsible for what is due. Also state that obtaining monies from you is like attempting to find it in a rock.

As the advisors have likely told you, call every account holder and tell them where things are and that your plan is to work though this mess. Assure that you tell those who are holding shared or fully your ex's amount due that you will only pay what is yours.

I am so very sorry regard Sammy...

 

[ravvlet]

You know, I knew a couple who had amazons that spent a few months away with a woman who ran a rescue and was very reputable, while they had to endure & recover from some really tough financial issues. It was incredibly kind of her to take them on. Do you have any parrot friends who could take Sammy on for a few months to a year - until you are more emotionally and fiscally stable?

I wish I could help. Unfortunately I'm on the wrong side of the country divide (and pretty far away).

 

[mh434]

Again, I thank you all for your kind support & caring!! This forum is a lifeline for parrot owners, and I thank God for you all!


I haven't gone into details of the financial situation, but it's all over except the crying now. I'm stuck with almost half a million in debt (the majority of which I hadn't known about), and very little income. I did get to keep the house along with the debt, but it's worth less than the debt, so selling is impossible. Thus, the loooong hours of work (bearing in mind I retired 15 years ago, so I'm not a youngster) to try to survive. The worst part is that Sammy doesn't get the attention he needs & deserves, and his quality of life is degrading daily. He needs a happy, fulfilling home.

 

[Laurasea]

I support you in your choice to re-home. Sometimes it really is the best option. I hope you can find that right home soon.

Big hugs

 

[Anita1250]

Well, if the debt is not tied to the house, then nobody can take the house. When my husband passed away, I had $250,000 in debt and NO income. He only had $25,000 life insurance. I would need three lifetimes to have paid it off. I didn't pay one dime, kept my house and went on to live a pretty good life. All unsecured consumer debt is just that - unsecured. They can take nothing except the credit rating. That too will come back in 7 years. Good luck to you.

 

[Scott]

Well, if the debt is not tied to the house, then nobody can take the house. When my husband passed away, I had $250,000 in debt and NO income. He only had $25,000 life insurance. I would need three lifetimes to have paid it off. I didn't pay one dime, kept my house and went on to live a pretty good life. All unsecured consumer debt is just that - unsecured. They can take nothing except the credit rating. That too will come back in 7 years. Good luck to you.

The OP lives in British Columbia, Canada. Hope the laws are as accommodating.

 

[Anita1250]

I wonder what their debt laws are like. Hope they are good for him.

 

[mh434]

Unfortunately, the debt is indelibly tied to the house. Here, our debt laws favor only the banks. Almost nothing is deductible from income tax anymore, and our tax load here is over 50% of every dollar earned. Our mortgages are not deductible, and even our "free" healthcare is not only expensive....it's mandatory by law, & and the same time considered by government as a "taxable benefit", so the fees we pay are also heavily taxed.

For me, unless I win a lottery, the die is cast. Nonetheless, I will survive, one way or another.

It's Sammy whose welfare I weep over. My heart aches over what he's becoming without a meaningful "parront" in his life. Worse, I swore an oath to provide a wonderful life to him. Although by circumstances beyond my control, I have still failed to keep my promise to him, something I never thought I was capable of. I am saddened and ashamed, and I have to find a way to provide him a good life.