Safaris' Toxicology report came back

[crimson]

Well, that was a disappointment!!!!

all that money, and everything came back normal

how could that be???

they tested 19 different metals, and they came back "0" meaning nothing registered in their findings.

Evan gave me the news on Monday, I stood their stunned, confused, and wondering how that could be.

apparently the two injections they gave Safari neutralized the metal toxicity in his tissue samples.

He has inquired further explanation with the results directly from the technician who ran the tests... which don't make any sense, after all-- he pulled 6 fragments of metal from Safari, we know it's a metal compound.

Evan(my avian Vet) recommended we may have to send in the metal fragments he removed for further testing.

this is very discouraging...

Evan explained it could be due to the injections....so where does that leave me??...with what??....no info, no closure what so ever....after all this....all of this is very upsetting.

He better not suggest it's going to cost more to send in the metal fragments cause sure as H*&^ he's not getting one more dime out of me!

not knowing is the most disturbing part of all of this....

the results from the necropsy showed no unusual findings-$100.00
then I ordered tissue samples to be sent away for testing....almost 100% guarantee I would find out what Safari digested- $300.00

now it comes back all negative, and tells me it's due to the injection....somehow I'm wondering if I'm being ripped off somehow.

then suggests we may have to send in the metal fragments!:54:

I feel like I should demand my money back, but I doubt I would get it, they have performed the tests, despite the results.

what should I do??

 

[JerseyWendy]

That is very unexpected!!!

Can you possibly ask for a an AVIAN VET CREDIT????

 

[TessieB]

Tell me about it! I work in the veterinary field and have experienced the same thing. Several things come to mind:

1) Not enough sample
2) Particular sample did not contain the cells exposed to contaminant, or infection, or neoplasia
3) Sample degraded due to improper storage, improper temperature, contamination, age of sample
4) Laboratory error-improper prep, untrained staff (whatdoyameanIhavetoweargloves?)
5) Location of laboratory. If the sample must be shipped across the country, all kinds of factors will effect the sample-longer time for degradation to take place-temperature/pressure extremes

Unfortunately, this does happen in veterinary and human medicine. Oftentimes, we spend a lot of money only to find out what the problem is NOT. Very frustrating and hard on the pocketbook.

I'll tell you about my personal experience with laboratory testing. I had a horse who developed neurological signs. Suspecting all kinds of things, the vet did routine bloodwork, and not so routine bloodwork. Several hundred dollars later we still did not have any idea why my horse was jerking his head to the left and flicking his eye balls. We started investigating other options and discovered the problem was the fly spray. It contained an ingredient the horse was allergic to. Switched to another brand and he's fine.

I understand your confusion and you have every right to challenge the results. However, please understand your vet is probably just as mystified as you are. Having said that, if you think your vet is ripping you off, have an investigation initiated by the Veterinary Medical Board in your state.

Very sorry you are going through this.

 

[Kalidasa]

If they performed any tests you won't get your money back. But he should be up-front with you about cost always. With that said, he's performed many tests and stuff, and the answer was always "go ahead, do it", so he might ASSUME you'll say "go ahead" again. If its gonna be another high lab bill consider what it may or may not tell you, and will it be worth it in the end. It's a terrible loss and it doesn't seem like you're getting many answers. I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you what I would do, and that would be to let go, and pour the love you have for him in your present birds.

 

[Mike17]

I can't imagine metal from tissue disappearing, nor an injection "eliminating" any metals from tissue. I'd imagine the injection might have had one of two purposes- get the metals into a form in which the body can eliminate them (lead is replaced by other elements which don't tend to "bind" to tissues in bones, for instance) or they are transformed into compounds which are safe (although the only salts that are relatively safe, of the heavy metals, are insoluble ones- barium sulphate used in gastroscopy is highly toxic, but insoluble) but how the body would eliminate them... don't know. So I can't think of how the injections would eliminate metals in the short term.

 

[getwozzy]

Ohmygoodness I'm so sorry Beth!!

Do you think evan would have known that the injection would do that? Or is that a load of bs? Has he said how much it would cost to test the fragments? Would he possibly waive that cost?

 

[crimson]

"apparently the two injections they gave Safari neutralized the metal toxicity in his tissue samples."

the injections that they gave Safari(one was Barium) the other was an injection to bind the metals together so he would pass them. Evan was unaware at the time of injecting Safari that the metals were imbedded in the lining of his stomach....leading to over toxicity. the x-ray showed they were in his stomach.

all I know is that is how he explained it, my interpretation was that the injections weakened the toxic levels to the degree of reading 0....I may be wrong, but that is what I was lead to believe.

I will certainly clarify this with Evan.

 

[crimson]

Ohmygoodness I'm so sorry Beth!!

Do you think evan would have known that the injection would do that? Or is that a load of bs? Has he said how much it would cost to test the fragments? Would he possibly waive that cost?

I don't know, that is what I am thinking as well, but he doesn't seem to be that type of person ya know?

I read people pretty well, he's super smart and excels at his profession.

he stated he was very surprised by these findings, and I believe him....but I still have this nagging doubt....something doesn't add up.

he won't waive the cost, the test have been done as per my instructions, regardless of the results.

 

[Mike17]

The injections might have been chelating agents- although they'd need to be insoluble chelates I'd imagine- that's why iron chelates is sold instead of iron sulphate, more soluble, or at least, better availability to tissues. As for the barium, that's highly toxic in itself, but if transformed into sulphate form becomes insoluble. All a bit over my head, just thinking out loud, but I can't see how metals could be eliminated, because if put through a mass spectrometer, they'd show up, in minute doses.

 

[Terry57]

I am so sorry that you have gone through all this and still have no answers. I hope that you find that Evan hasn't just been padding the bill, so to speak, as it seems that you really did trust him with your bird care. I am hoping that your confidence is restored, somehow.

 

[crimson]

holy geez!, what your saying is waaaay over my head, but much appreciated non the less!

what is a mass spectrometer?

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

Crimson,
How frustrating!! I'm so sorry you not only have to go through the loss of a beloved animal, but all this too now.

 

[Mike17]

Crimson, from Wiki:
"Mass spectrometry (MS) is an analytical technique that produces spectra (singular spectrum) of the masses of the atoms or molecules comprising a sample of material. The spectra are used to determine the elemental or isotopic signature of a sample, the masses of particles and of molecules, and to elucidate the chemical structures of molecules, such as peptides and other chemical compounds. Mass spectrometry works by ionizing chemical compounds to generate charged molecules or molecule fragments and measuring their mass-to-charge ratios.[1]
In a typical MS procedure, a sample, which may be solid, liquid, or gas, is ionized. The ions are separated according to their mass-to-charge ratio.[1] The ions are detected by a mechanism capable of detecting charged particles. Signal processing results are displayed as spectra of the relative abundance of ions as a function of the mass-to-charge ratio. The atoms or molecules can be identified by correlating known masses to the identified masses or through a characteristic fragmentation pattern."


Basically, a sample is sprayed into an ioniser (i.e. as a solution) and the wavelengths of the result analysed, will give a breakdown of the composition of the sample- heavy metals would stand out readily. There other techniques, some a lot more sensitive, but mass spectro is a basic analytical lab technique these days.

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

Crimson, from Wiki:
"Mass spectrometry (MS) is an analytical technique that produces spectra (singular spectrum) of the masses of the atoms or molecules comprising a sample of material. The spectra are used to determine the elemental or isotopic signature of a sample, the masses of particles and of molecules, and to elucidate the chemical structures of molecules, such as peptides and other chemical compounds. Mass spectrometry works by ionizing chemical compounds to generate charged molecules or molecule fragments and measuring their mass-to-charge ratios.[1]
In a typical MS procedure, a sample, which may be solid, liquid, or gas, is ionized. The ions are separated according to their mass-to-charge ratio.[1] The ions are detected by a mechanism capable of detecting charged particles. Signal processing results are displayed as spectra of the relative abundance of ions as a function of the mass-to-charge ratio. The atoms or molecules can be identified by correlating known masses to the identified masses or through a characteristic fragmentation pattern."


Basically, a sample is sprayed into an ioniser (i.e. as a solution) and the wavelengths of the result analysed, will give a breakdown of the composition of the sample- heavy metals would stand out readily. There other techniques, some a lot more sensitive, but mass spectro is a basic analytical lab technique these days.

Do they use that on parrots and other animals though?

 

[Mike17]

[

Do they use that on parrots and other animals though?

They would on samples for toxicology, any halfway decent lab would have one.