ROBIN DIAGNOSED WITH CHRONIC LEAD TOXICOSIS! (Long post)

[Dinosrawr]

Oh my goodness! That's crazy! It kind of blows my mind how this stuff gets by us so easily, but way to be absolutely diligent, Julie! I'm so happy you found the cause of everything right away and that it can be treated, I couldn't imagine you losing Robin right now after you two having such an amazing bond for so long!

Please keep us updated with any progress, with both Robin and Raven. I can't believe how insanely expensive it can become to treat your birds... that's why I always giggle when people ask, "how much does it cost to take care of a parrot?". The number could be infinite, but they're always worth it. No one can ever replace the love and memories they give us. My thoughts are with you and your flock!

 

[GW.Joe]

FIRST, I wanted to let everyone know that Robin is lucky and not in IMMEDIATE danger, and will get his first dose of chelation therapy tomorrow.
He has the long term chronic condition caused by low levels circulating in the blood over a period of years, not an acute poisoning which causes immediate death.

So where do I start. This was such a big surprise to me. Robin, my male Red Bellied parrot is my most beloved, bonded, soulmate of a pet to me than any pet has EVER been. I've had Robin since he was a 3 month old weaned juvenile. That was nearly 20 years ago. He turns 20 on July 31st.

For the past several years, I would take Robin to the vet for his annual wellness exam. Since he's getting older, I wanted to monitor things a bit closer nowdays. The bloodwork on his check ups long term over the years have always been within perfect range (despite eating mostly Harrison's).
However.... I noticed he would VOMIT ONCE A YEAR for the past few years, Robin would only do it for a day or so. I'd be concerned, then it would resolve, never to come back for another year or longer.

I also noticed that while he would play, and talk, and hold a good appetite and weight, and would act "normally", he would also TAKE MORE SHORT NAPS during the day. This has been going on for YEARS, and since he was eating and happy and holding weight, I passed it off as just one of the signs of 'getting older'.

THEN, not too long ago.... Robin vomited AND was having diarrhea AND/OR polyuria (increased urine portion of droppings). That was it. Although his vet visit 6 months prior was great, I took him in to get another work up... He was still acting happy, but this time I knew something had to be wrong.

My regular vet was out of town (Murphy's Law), so I saw his associate who is mostly a dog and cat vet. She took blood... The results were the start of KIDNEY DAMAGE. What??!! His kidney values were fine 6 months ago! Remember, the lead toxicosis (which I'm getting to) has been present for years, but just now getting to the point it's showing on tests, and a little more symptoms. THIS vet was only about one step ahead of me looking info up on a textbook (one of the assistants led on). She (the vet) prescribed a special rx kidney diet (Roudybush AK). Robin's outward GI symptoms resolved within a couple days of eating it.

I kept reading articles on this, and the question always came to mind WHAT IS CAUSING the kidney damage? It is NOT diet related. My experience shows me that while Robin doesn't like to eat a ton of fresh foods, his kidney damage and symptoms are suspiciously from something else.... and PDD tests came back negative.

Since I live fairly near a well known exclusive avian specialist, I decided to take Robin for a second opinion. BINGO. I knew this vet would know exactly what to do. An x-ray showed METAL FRAGMENTS in his gizzard!! He sent blood for analysis (I'm sure he knew at that point from the symptoms plus x-ray) but of course any good vet won't say anything until lab results are in. The lab results showed definite LEAD toxicosis. Low level enough it wasn't fatal thank God, but giving off these "classic" vague symptoms of chronic (long-term) heavy metal poisoning.
I was so shocked, as all of Robin's life, I have watched him closely so that he was never getting into household objects. I've tried to buy safe toys... The metal pieces are round. I wonder if they are the little metal 'doughnuts' around the shoe laces on mini-shoe bird toys? I don't know.

I am SO thankful I took Robin for a second opinion with a specialist!! He says that LONG TERM HEAVY METAL TOXICOSIS IS THE MOST UNDER DIAGNOSED MEDICAL PROBLEM IN OUR PET BIRDS!!!

** side note - Robin is NOT a plucker, BUT... Metal toxicity is an extremely COMMON REASON for Cockatoos, and others to pluck!!! People tend to look at behavioral or diet first, and many vets don't even think of toxicosis as a possible reason. If in doubt, please get your precious babies checked!

OMG Julie, I am in complete shock, you just never know, THANK GOD the vet x-rayed, are they (or can they) remove them from his gizzard?

You just can't trust ANYTHING when it comes to your birds....GOSH....
I read your words in a daze like it was a story..CHILLING....

Please let me know how you are holding up in the morning

XOXOXO

Joe

 

[GW.Joe]

We spent close to 10,000 trying to save my horse Stilts a couple years ago talk about a financial hit! In the end we couldn't afford the surgery she needed and we didn't have her insured. We now have all the cats insured and my other horse Chip insured. I remember looking up avian insurance and could only find one thing and it was insanely expensive. We figured it would be cheaper to put money aside gradually then pay that much for so many birds!

I'm sorry about your horse Victoria. If this cost even more than it is already, I won't be able to pay for surgery either. When all is done with Robin, I'm estimating I'll be about $4,000 deeper in debt :17: just when I was FINALLY catching up a little more. Now look.
The $4,000 or so will be just for Robin alone... Let alone what Raven is going to cost for his sinus damage issue that has been ever since I got him. I'm sure another $900 for the initial visit then thereafter I hate to think. So depressing. Ugh, I have good credit NOW, but it's gonna go down. I hope the consequences aren't TOO bad.

If I didn't have my deposit already on my new baby coming since last year, before his parents were even mating (!) I wouldn't have said yes to get him, had I known what a financial nightmare I was going to be facing.

THIS 'SPECIALIST VET' costs significantly more than my regular avian vet. Way WAY more actually. He's the only one I trust for beyond the basics.

As far as "setting money aside specifically for vet care"... As much as these things are costing me in credit card debt, how much was I supposed to have set aside to be safe?! Not even talking about "savings" but VET CARE savings. Upwards of $10,000 maybe?! It's just crazy!!

In Philly we have the university of Pennsylvania veterinary hospital where they will let you make payments

XOXOXO

Joe

 

[aliray]

OMG So Sorry that you and Robin have to go through this. Sending hugs and best wishes. Alison

 

[witchbaby]

I'm so sorry this is happening, but at least treatment is possible and it sounds like Robin is going to be okay. It's so scary though. Birds are so fragile. I'm glad you were able to see the symptoms for what they really were. This is why it's so important to follow our instincts when it comes to our feathered family members. *hugs*

 

[Kiwibird]

As far as "setting money aside specifically for vet care"... As much as these things are costing me in credit card debt, how much was I supposed to have set aside to be safe?! Not even talking about "savings" but VET CARE savings. Upwards of $10,000 maybe?! It's just crazy!!

Wow. This really puts the cost of advanced vet care into perspective. We have around $1500 set aside, and thought that was a 'good' amount. Apparently not. Perhaps there needs to be a open discussion in a new thread on what is a realistic number to have set aside for your birds vet expenses. Perhaps it's just me, but I would imagine many members of the avian community have no clue on the real expense here and no ability to insure their birds, then it may be helpful to discuss what is a realistic number to have in an emergency vet savings.

I am just floored by the expense Julie. I couldn't imagine being faced with that. What an awful situation The only light at the end of the tunnel is at least Robin can be treated

 

[RavensGryf]

Wow. This really puts the cost of advanced vet care into perspective. We have around $1500 set aside, and thought that was a 'good' amount. Apparently not. Perhaps there needs to be a open discussion in a new thread on what is a realistic number to have set aside for your birds vet expenses. Perhaps it's just me, but I would imagine many members of the avian community have no clue on the real expense here and no ability to insure their birds, then it may be helpful to discuss what is a realistic number to have in an emergency vet savings.

I am just floored by the expense Julie. I couldn't imagine being faced with that. What an awful situation The only light at the end of the tunnel is at least Robin can be treated

I know, it's really eye opening isn't it?! :52: of course cost factors also depend on who the vet is, what part of the country or world, etc. I usually don't go to this particular vet (though I've known him for years and know his rep) because he is extra expensive, he's not my regular "avian" vet. I can't afford him for basic routine stuff. I'll go to my regular then. Dr. Larry Nemetz (as of several years ago) one of only a handful of EXCLUSIVE Avian only specialists in the country. That's WHY he's so much more expensive.

Avian Veterinary Services

A little page that says something about his expertise, as well as a link to his clinic with more info. I feel extremely fortunate to live near his practice for reasons like this, but WOW his services can really violate the pocketbook

As you suggested about vet savings, that would be a good thread to start April

 

[RavensGryf]

Today Robin had his first dose of the chelating meds (calcium EDTA) to rid the bloodstream of the toxins. After 3 weeks of meds, he will have another blood test to see how successful the meds were at removing the lead. He will after this, need surgery to remove the pieces. I was asking questions to see if it was possible that the surgery might not be necessary, but he says if they're not removed, more lead will leach out of the pieces over time, and have the same problems over again as well as a shortened life span. The only way the meds would completely dissolve the pieces, is if it was pure lead, which we know it's not, because he didn't die or get acutely ill.

 

[sam4life]

I'm very sorry to hear about Robin. I know what toys you are taking about; I had thought about getting some for my parrot since he loved to chew my shoelaces. It is so maddening that here you were, trying to do what was best for your Robin, and he ended up with lead poisoning! Taking care of parrots is just so hard.

But I'm very glad to hear you caught it--you did a great job spotting the signs! I don't know Dr. Nemetz personally, but I've heard he is first rate, and he certainly has a very impressive facility! It sounds like Robin is on the path to making a full recovery, and I wish you both the very best.

My personal strategy for vet bills was the dedicated credit card approach: One card with something like a 5K limit that was to be used for nothing else, and I also had several other cards that could be used as supplements (and some small savings). I think a dedicated credit card with at least 5K per bird is probably the way to go. But I don't know how feasible that would be for people with multiple birds. I'm pleased to hear that UPenn will allow people to set up payment plans, but many vets I know will not. (I guess if something bad happens to a person's pet, they are unlikely to pay the balance due...).

 

[sam4life]

One other quick point: I have read that sometimes the lead pieces can be removed by having the bird eat peanut butter (I might research whether one could substitute almond butter). The nut butter binds to the metal pieces and can whisk them out of the digestive track.

Here is one place where this is mentioned in passing:

Cases from our Clinic: Lead Poisoning in a Bird

Obviously, your vet knows best (and he is a nationally known expert!), and if he thinks surgery is necessary, you clearly should defer to his expertise. However, if it were me, I might ask about other possible ways of removing the lead pieces before resorting to surgery (especially on an older parrot).

 

[Terry57]

Julie, how is Robin doing after his first day of meds? I hope they are not affecting him too badly

 

[RavensGryf]

Sam4life - Thank you I have read about the peanut butter, but Dr. Nemetz didn't mention it. He did say that he recommends surgery if the pieces don't desolve, which since they aren't pure lead, they won't. . The pieces were big enough compared to size of the bird that surgical removal sounded like the only option unfortunately.

The x-ray showed 2 round edged objects 2mm and 3mm in size. I mentioned the little grommets from the toy tennis shoes, and he said that those are usually zinc, not lead. At this point who knows what it is! I still can't believe it, since Robin is closely watched and I don't ever let him wander around on tables and places he doesn't belong, so I can't imagine what the pieces are. I guess an expensive surgery will eventually satisfy my curiosity!

 

[RavensGryf]

Julie, how is Robin doing after his first day of meds? I hope they are not affecting him too badly

Thank you so much for asking Terry . Yes, Robin is acting normally on the meds (he's has almost 2 days worth now) and is fine. I was reading about the rare intolerance to the meds, so thank goodness it looks like he's handling it well.
In fact, I don't even have to put him in a towel! he'll sit on my lap and I hold his head as I drip the meds in the corner of his beak. He's such a good boy. I have to keep the dropper away from his reach though, or he'll bite it hard!

 

[Bundiibird]

Julie, it is good to hear that he is reacting well to the meds. Glad he is happy to take the meds just sitting in your lap. Please pass on my best wishes to him and plenty of happy squawks from Bundii.

 

[RavensGryf]

Julie, it is good to hear that he is reacting well to the meds. Glad he is happy to take the meds just sitting in your lap. Please pass on my best wishes to him and plenty of happy squawks from Bundii.

Aw, thanks Bundii ...I mean, Amanda! Lol
I'll tell Robin a real cute girl bird from Australia wishes him well

 

[GW.Joe]

Might be a good idea, its not like the lead would get "lost" can't miss it on an x-ray, BUT could it end up getting stuck in a "worse" place?

You would have to ask more than one vet because the expert might just want the money OR just think its faster or better to just go right there and remove the lead

If it could be removed some other way, of course avoiding an operation and anesthesia would be the best choice

Joe

One other quick point: I have read that sometimes the lead pieces can be removed by having the bird eat peanut butter (I might research whether one could substitute almond butter). The nut butter binds to the metal pieces and can whisk them out of the digestive track.

Here is one place where this is mentioned in passing:

Cases from our Clinic: Lead Poisoning in a Bird

Obviously, your vet knows best (and he is a nationally known expert!), and if he thinks surgery is necessary, you clearly should defer to his expertise. However, if it were me, I might ask about other possible ways of removing the lead pieces before resorting to surgery (especially on an older parrot).

 

[Terry57]

Julie, I am thrilled that he is handling the meds well! That is one less worry, thank goodness.

 

[Sheryl]

R- Why is vet waiting to chelate if he can already see metal in gizzard? Just real concerned. That scares me. My experience was when doctor saw the metal, he gave the antidote immediately. Do you know how Robin developed the chronic toxicosis? You will have to remove source.

 

[RavensGryf]

R- Why is vet waiting to chelate if he can already see metal in gizzard? Just real concerned. That scares me. My experience was when doctor saw the metal, he gave the antidote immediately. Do you know how Robin developed the chronic toxicosis? You will have to remove source.

Hi Sheryl, I know you went through a much more serious and devastating experience with metal toxicity. My heart goes out to you. Thank you so much for your concern and for asking about Robin.

The chelation is to remove the lead in the blood. They do that to see if it also shrinks or dissolves the metal pieces in cases where the bird is not acutely ill and in immediate danger.
Robin developed the chronic toxicosis from having these metal pieces in him for some time. THANKFULLY, these metal pieces only 'contain' lead in an amount small enough that it wasn't lethal, or enough to cause him to become acutely ill. The lead from the pieces leached out slowly into the bloodstream. We just can't pinpoint exactly when it happened, but suspect it had been YEARS, as he started having some very subtle and occasional symptoms years ago. When I'd take him to my regular vet, they'd say he was fine, his weight always good, etc., his bloodwork would always check out good until recently the kidney damage. Long-term low level exposure to lead causes kidney damage over time, along with the other symptoms he showed. I'm so thankful I was able to get a second opinion from someone who knows more than the basics.

 

[Sheryl]

I see. A much better prognosis for Robin. Thank goodness.