Rare budgie- and rare cross breed

[Hawk]

Hey gang....

My wife and I paid a visit today to the Avian parrot store/rescue and came across a pure white budgie, pink eyes, white feet and claws. It's Albino!
This little gal is such a nice bird, steps up, comes up and cuddles and kisses on the cheek. Very playful and hand raised since birth. It's about 4 months old., nearly 5 actually.

Needless to say, we now have another parrot. My wife couldn't resist.
We'll bring her home midweek next week. Thinking of a name for a pure white Budgie.

Also they had a Senegal/ Conure cross.....Has the coloration vest of a Senegal, the beak, but eyes and tail of a conure. Very nice bird, very well natured. Was considering that as well. No one knows just how the breed was crossed here at the store, it's a rescue....so it's assumed perhaps there was a Senegal/ and conure that mated and had particular offspring...Only logical way I presume.

 

[RavensGryf]

Well first, congratulations on the little albino guy . Albino budgies aren't rare though

About a Senegal/Conure cross... . We need a pic Michael!! I can hardly believe that it is even possible. These 2 birds are so vastly different. From different continents, habitats, and vastly different genetics! They're not even remotely related.

 

[Rockford]

Not only are albino budgies not rare, budgies are among the most likely parrot species to be albino.

 

[Hawk]

Well first, congratulations on the little albino guy . Albino budgies aren't rare though

About a Senegal/Conure cross... . We need a pic Michael!! I can hardly believe that it is even possible. These 2 birds are so vastly different. From different continents, habitats, and vastly different genetics! They're not even remotely related.

Thanks !!Correct me if I'm wrong, but many stores will sell a white Lutino budgie as an Albino,a loss of blue pigment in genetic make up and typically called albino, then there's an actual albino where it is genetically a true albino, there is a differenced. True albinos I'm told are a bit smaller in size than a white budgie and both can look Identical. Except a true albino is a runt. From what I'm told. And this one looks very petite...But regardless, he has a new home. Your thoughts??

As for the Senni/ Conure cross...believe me I said no way as well can't be I thought....but mark the owner and former Avian vet confirmed it's true.
It has the same dark head as a senni, the orange belly vest as a Senegal, But the tail of a conure and eye outline of a conure but Iris of a senni.
I have never seen one like it...and still refuse to believe it's even possible.
So I'm with you on that....but of course I seen it with my own eyes and held it.
I didn't have my Ipod with me at the time, but we are going back there Wednesday and might even bring that bird home too. I'll have a picture then of it. You won't believe it.

But mark said he's never seen one and is even against cross breeding
but confirmed thru testing ( as he owns the store and certifies the birds) that it is indeed crossed....how? we really don't know, as this bird is no bigger than a small Senegal....with a long tail, and different eyes. His guess and must say I see his point, that a breeder may have had a Senegal and conure in which they mated ( they are relatively similar in size)
for which they had this guy which is what he thinks I guess. I know birds
and this one is one I have never seen.

I don't know how to explain it any better, you'll have to see it as well...picture coming.

 

[thekarens]

Albinos aren't rare, they are solid white with red eyes, lutinos are yellow and there's a creamino that has yellow and white feathers.

 

[PetoftheDay]

Aww, np one said albinos are rare, but it is great this one has a him where it will be a loved, spoiled budgie regardless! Congratulaions!

 

[RavensGryf]

I was thinking, the Senegal Conure cross reminds me that there are Lion and Tiger crosses too. Called Ligers and Tigons depending on which was mom and dad. Two completely different felines. One from the African plains, one from the Asian jungle. Horses and Zebras too... I didn't google it, but my guess is that all species that are alike enough to cross breed, yet genetically so different would be sterile "mules".

EDIT: Now after reading Trish's post further below, it explains more about my above post. Makes sense now about the big cats being in the same genus, same with horses and zebras. But then Senegals and Conures are in different genuses.

 

[Hawk]

Albinos aren't rare, they are solid white with red eyes, lutinos are yellow and there's a creamino that has yellow and white feathers.

This one has pink eyes...not red. and our canary is bigger than this
Budgie...it's very petite.

 

[Kiwibird]

Congrats on your new flock member! Can't wait to see pictures of her. Does she have red eyes you typically see in albino animals?

Name wise, what about Snowflake since she's so unique

 

[thekarens]

Albinos aren't rare, they are solid white with red eyes, lutinos are yellow and there's a creamino that has yellow and white feathers.

This one has pink eyes...not red. and our canary is bigger than this
Budgie...it's very petite.

There's no difference between pink and red in birds. You can look up on the budgie sites about the different types. I love the inos, but they aren't rare.

 

[Hawk]

I was thinking, the Senegal Conure cross reminds me that there are Lion and Tiger crosses too. Called Ligers and Tigons depending on which was mom and dad. Two completely different felines. One from the African plains, one from the Asian jungle. Horses and Zebras too... I didn't google it, but my guess is that all species that are alike enough to cross breed, yet genetically so different would be sterile "mules".

Have you thought of a name for your budgie yet? Is she a girl for sure?

It is a female. And smaller than a canary. It's very petite.
Pink eyes...most white ones have red. This one is very different from most white ones I have seen. Never seen one this small at this age (5 months) and is very very tame, loveable rolls on it's back cuddles and makes all kinds of noises.
My wife Can't wait to bring it home. Mark ( the avian vet and owner) has them checked and certified. He explained to me that there is white Budgies that are typically albinos for lack of the gene that makes up the coloration....then there is the true albinos, which Personally I don't know the difference other than size and eyes are different which he showed me. And really could care less as this is a sweety and that's all that matters.
I'll have to study more up on the albino thingy....

That's true about mixed genetics, hey anything is possible I guess. I wouldn't have believed it either unless I saw it....Still having a hard time believing it though myself. Was sitting here with my wife saying" wonder if the parents were female Senegal or male Senegal and vise versa for the conure".....my wife's like "oh stop already....it's a mixed bird that needs a home...that's all that matters"....yeahhhhh ok.

 

[Hawk]

Congrats on your new flock member! Can't wait to see pictures of her. Does she have red eyes you typically see in albino animals?

Name wise, what about Snowflake since she's so unique

Thanks....my wife wanted this little budgie badly. It actually has pink eyes
But the main thing is that it's TINY !! Our Canary is bigger than the Budgy. It's very petite !! I've seen humming birds bigger. But it's a sweet thing.
I have been around many Budgie as my kids each had one, blue ones.
and they were not nearly as cuddle happy as this little thing.

As for names....well so far we have Casper, Ashen, and Alabaster are what
we have so far for names, all meaning "white" or related to it.

 

[Hawk]

Albinos aren't rare, they are solid white with red eyes, lutinos are yellow and there's a creamino that has yellow and white feathers.

This one has pink eyes...not red. and our canary is bigger than this
Budgie...it's very petite.

There's no difference between pink and red in birds. You can look up on the budgie sites about the different types. I love the inos, but they aren't rare.

Why do I get attacked by you every darn time I post something? It is a bit annoying.

Ya Know it all!!

 

[Kalel]

Wow! A Senegal/conure cross???!!!! That's interesting! Someone mentioned a Lion and tiger cross as an example of similar species successfully reproducing. However, I would think that lions and tigers have more in common then a Senegal and conure. Even though the lion is usually found in Africa, there is an Asian lion as well so they can share habitat and potentially meet in the wild. Well, this is probably more true in the past as both populations of the Asian lion and the tiger are both dwindling. However, a cross between a Senegal and conure seems even less likely to me since I can't see them ever having overlapping habitats. And the two bird species seem to have such differences that I would never expect successful reproduction between them. I'm so interested in seeing the picture! And by the way congrats on your new little budgie!

 

[JerseyWendy]

Why do I get attacked by you every darn time I post something? It is a bit annoying.

Ya Know it all!!

Ok, take a deep, long breath, please. Karen is most definitely not attacking anyone here.

You describe a rather peculiar looking budgie, Michael. Are you sure she has white feet??? Please have a look at this:

Albino Budgie - Lutino Budgie
Beginner Guide to Genes, Mutations and Hybrids
Albino Budgies - Cute Little Birdies Aviary

The colors you describe are nowhere to be found online - and boy, I looked hard and long.

 

[JerseyWendy]

...

Also they had a Senegal/ Conure cross.....Has the coloration vest of a Senegal, the beak, but eyes and tail of a conure. Very nice bird, very well natured. Was considering that as well. No one knows just how the breed was crossed here at the store, it's a rescue....so it's assumed perhaps there was a Senegal/ and conure that mated and had particular offspring...Only logical way I presume.

....

About a Senegal/Conure cross... . We need a pic Michael!! I can hardly believe that it is even possible. These 2 birds are so vastly different. From different continents, habitats, and vastly different genetics! They're not even remotely related.

BINGO, Julie! Those 2 could 'possibly' mate, but there wouldn't be any offspring.

My guess is that this particular bird may resemble a Conure/Senegal hybrid, but like you said, it can’t be.

 

[Hawk]

Wow! A Senegal/conure cross???!!!! That's interesting! Someone mentioned a Lion and tiger cross as an example of similar species successfully reproducing. However, I would think that lions and tigers have more in common then a Senegal and conure. Even though the lion is usually found in Africa, there is an Asian lion as well so they can share habitat and potentially meet in the wild. Well, this is probably more true in the past as both populations of the Asian lion and the tiger are both dwindling. However, a cross between a Senegal and conure seems even less likely to me since I can't see them ever having overlapping habitats. And the two bird species seem to have such differences that I would never expect successful reproduction between them. I'm so interested in seeing the picture! And by the way congrats on your new little budgie!

Yeah it is interesting, I wouldn't have believed it at all, I still have my doubts and searching the web to match a bird with that make up and coloration, but so far nothing. I wouldn't have believed it unless I held it in my own hands which I did, and was a bit speechless, and awestruck. However I will have pictures of it Thursday.... You'd swear it was a Senegal with odd Conure features ( not completely)... I can't explain it....You have to see it to believe it.

 

[Hawk]

...

Also they had a Senegal/ Conure cross.....Has the coloration vest of a Senegal, the beak, but eyes and tail of a conure. Very nice bird, very well natured. Was considering that as well. No one knows just how the breed was crossed here at the store, it's a rescue....so it's assumed perhaps there was a Senegal/ and conure that mated and had particular offspring...Only logical way I presume.

....

About a Senegal/Conure cross... . We need a pic Michael!! I can hardly believe that it is even possible. These 2 birds are so vastly different. From different continents, habitats, and vastly different genetics! They're not even remotely related.

BINGO, Julie! Those 2 could 'possibly' mate, but there wouldn't be any offspring.

My guess is that this particular bird may resemble a Conure/Senegal hybrid, but like you said, it can’t be.

I would have thought that too, I still can't work it out and has me puzzled.
But then there are those Breeders tend to do strange things to get a particular bird...I guess anything is possible.

 

[Betrisher]

AFAIK, any animal with 'red' or 'pink' eyes is simply one which lacks any pigment in the eye, thus the transparent tissues allow the colour of the blood vessels to be seen. Whether you call it red or pink, what you're seeing is the creature's blood: there's no mysterious genetically-determined pigment that causes the colouration. It's LACK of colouration. You can see it in mice. What everyone knows as a PEW (Pink-Eyed White) is the true albino mouse whose eyes are 'blood-coloured'. Various other genetic combinations are around (eg. fawn mice with pink eyes), all involving mosaicism for the recessive albino gene.

Sometimes, colouration can be sex-linked (as in mostly-male ginger cats) or size-linked (morbid obesity in fawn mice) or linked with other features (as in the scanty body hair of appaloosa horses). My personal favourite colour 'oddity' is the palomino 'gene' in horses. It's not easy to breed palominos because it's such a complex genetic make-up but I find it fascinating to read about all the combinations and permutations that are possible.

Regarding a Senegal/Conure cross, you could knock me down with a feather if that proves to be true. AFAIK, they are just too distant from each other on the evolutionary tree to be able to hybridise. Senegal parrots come from the sub-family Psittacinae and evolved in Africa while the Conures are South American and belong to the sub-family Arinae. I'm not a geneticist, but I'd bet quite a few feathers that the two families contain quite different genetic material.

You get hybrids between Lions and Tigers because both belong to the same genus (Panthera). Horses, Zebras and Asses all belong to the genus Equus. Galahs, Corellas and Major Mitchell Cockatoos (genus Cacatua) can all interbreed (albeit not necessarily with fertile offspring), so it beats me why taxonomists have put Galahs into a separate genus (Eolophus) all of a sudden. :22_yikes:

The DEFINITION of a species is 'a group of animals capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring' although that has become quite muddied now since gene mapping became possible. Sigh. Makes me feel so old. When I was a young student zoologist, they taught us that one day someone would actually visualise DNA and we would work out how genes and chromosomes worked. Hey guess what? We've known about the structure of DNA for years now and the genes of most extant species have already been mapped! You can look at the DNA molecule under a microscope and, better than that, you can even modify some genetic details and virtually order up the genetic make-up you want. Whew!

And then that leads to ethical questions about population tweaking and effectively removing natural selection and being able to select the genetics of our own offspring. I honestly never thought I'd see this in my lifetime! What a piece of work is man, eh?

Sorry about the rambling post, but I've got Montezuma's Revenge and can't sleep. I felt writey so...

 

[Anansi]

The curse of your insomnia tends to be a gift to the rest of us. Personally, I love it when you start feeling "writey", dearest Trish.