Radical - mayhaps controversial - fix to a couple problems - thoughts??

[chris-md]

I've been on this forum for a year now so I think I know how this is going down but I had a revelation and wanted to really mull this over here in a judgement free zone.

I REALLY want to start taking Parker out and about but his harness training is stalled. He gets tangled when I move my hand to fiddle with his wing after his head gets through the loop. He's a LONG way from going out in a harness.

Then it hit me: clip his wings! Hear me out:

I wouldn't really be taking flight away from him because he doesn't fly much, doesn't show a joy for it. He only flies around the house when startled (which I need to work with him on). He's actually injured himself doing this a few times, bruises and all, because he can't land well. With a properly done clip he can flutter to the ground without getting the lift to fly around, hit a wall and fall 3' to the ground.

So in my logic here, clipping will:
1) let me take him out immediately without fear of flyoff
2) possibly avoid injury from a failed landing
3) continued target training would be employed working up to flight training (target is not 100% accurate yet). Once flight feathers grow back in, targeting should be accurate enough to to start perch hopping. In conjunction with continued harness training, the hope is that after a year, he will be both harness trained and a skilled lander
4) work on startle reflex without potential for injuries (see number 2 above)
5) more vitamin d!! Could possibly help with plucking.

The only really potential pitfall I can think of is the possibility of exacerbating plucking. But a proper clip shouldn't irritate him, especially if I do a quill cut. And since I'm not taking flight away from an avid flyer, I don't think there's a mental health issue here.

Please challenge me here. Is there a negative I'm missing here? I'm not crazy about clipping but the thought here is that it's potentially a powerful tool/means getting to a safer, ultimately flighted end.

 

[Kiwibird]

What about a pak-o-bird? Kiwi may come out on the back patio with me unrestrained, but when we go out and about, he's in his carrier. It's completely safe for public situations too, since the bird can't get scared and fly off AND it makes them feel more secure and therefore more confident because they are "protected". A tad pricey, but they are really well constructed and IMO a worthwhile investment. You'd also still be able to take Parker out right away:

I don't know how large Parker is, but they have a full range of sizes- Celltei - BIRDS by species - Celltei
(We have the regular medium)

The only reason I don't know about clipping in your scenario is he's got risk factors for loosing a bird- can fly but isn't very good at it and takes flight when startled. Even a clipped bird can get a good ways! The ONLY reason I feel comfortable with Kiwi is he has never flown, you can feel he has underdeveloped muscles and the few times he's jumped because he was scared, he was like a big clumsy rock. If he had any apparent capacity for flight OR has ever gotten startled and actually managed to fly, I wouldn't do it personally.

 

[itchyfeet]

Oh I so hear you. I would possibly do it in your position.

But the one time I've lost Henry was when I thought he was heavily clipped at that time, he was coming to the washing line, to water the garden, to pick up the kids from gym etc. You have to be really super hyper vigilant for any new growth.

Which, with Parker being a plucker, you're in the habit of anyways I guess.

 

[SilverSage]

When I adopted Tucson and Phoenix, daily baths in the sun were MANDATORY! But I have to echo what has been said; a clipped bird, even a very poor flier can still fly away. My suggestion is a budgie torturebox, you know, those tiny little cages that pet stores claim is big enough for a budgie? They are lightweight, cheap, and won't block the sun like a screen

 

[plumsmum2005]

I endorse Kiwibird in the pak o bird, I think and Plum think's it is great. He will even step into it for me now because he knows what is coming.

You state Parker is a little nervy, would he be OK outside (in harness) or would he be on alert the whole time? Work to his comfort levels IMO. Good luck.

 

[Uglow]

I feel your frustration Chris. Uglow would rather play with his harness rather than get it all the way on. So out door time is restricted to a cage at the moment. Uglow's clipped too but early on, anything that was odd to him he would forget that he wasn't very good at flying and just take off. A small gust of wind would give Parker a lift and then we would be having a different conversation here.
Also, Uglow wasn't thrilled about being outside the first time I went to my parents and hung out in their yard. both my wife and I were sitting next to his cage and he was still a little freaked out. You never know what's gonna catch Parker's eye and launch him off of you. So to go over your points.

1) he could still end up taking off.
2) he could still injure himself.
3) if you're already planning to have him harness trained in a year which seems like a plenty of time then I would use a cage outdoors in the meantime.
4) cage would do the same, while he takes in the outdoors. I put a towel on two sides of Uglow's cage to make a corner for him. This was an attempt to give him a small sense of security since the expanse is not something he's ever experienced.
5) again a cage would allow for vitamin D.

I'm pretty much in your boat Chris but I think we both need to be a little more patient with our guys. I think clipping is an easy fix that doesn't really fix anything.

 

[Brittany741]

We have a ton of Windows in our house so I clip simply to avoid the shock or injury associated with hitting the window full force.

Persie has no flight feathers since she barbered them all. The one time she did get spooked and tried to fly, it ended up with a small hematoma on her keel bone ��

Molly absolutely can't be flighted because she would hunt me down to tear my flesh off. She loves my husband but hates me a LOT.

Dan has been flighted before but he ended up being scared of everything. He would rather walk around all over me or the furniture. But he is a caique so all of mine have preferred walking and climbing to flying.

As for the baby, I plan to make sure he knows how to fly but I'm not sure if I will have him fully flighted long term. Just the simple fact he could be gone scares the tar out of me.

The Pak O Birds are nice and a great option, especially for a bird who feels insecure. We are playing it by ear. The only suggestion I have is to try it. If it doesn't work for you guys, then his flight feathers will grow back. Luckily, it's not a permanent change.

 

[Anansi]

As a few here have already pointed out, clipping Parker's wings wouldn't do anything for your main intent of being able to take Parker out and about. A properly done clip would still allow him to catch a gust of wind and get taken quite far rather quickly. There have been a number of cases on this very forum where a clipped bird has flown off and gotten lost. You'd be surprised how far they can go with clipped wings.

And as you've mentioned, Parker is prone to being startled. Outside, there are any number of things that might startle him. Loud noises, moving cars, or even the glimpse of a hawk or falcon flying overhead. I remember my mother teasing me one day about why I even bothered to harness Maya for a walk we were taking, since she "never" flies. Not 5 minutes later she took off, startled by the sudden flight of a bunch of crows from a nearby tree. And mind you, Maya isn't easily startled nowadays. (My youngest son waving a brightly colored balloon around while sounding off with a battle cry as he ran past her tree stand was the last thing that managed to freak her out indoors.) But the outdoors is just a whole different animal.

Is it possible to clip a bird to the point that even such wind-aided flight would be impossible? Absolutely. But such a clip would be cruel and dangerous. Because those kinds of clips cause the bird to fall like a rock. Unable to slow his fall, the bird could potentially break his keel bone. (I know this isn't an option you'd take, Chris. Just laying everything out, here.)

If you're looking to get Parker some Vitamin D, April's suggestion of the pak-o-bird is a great option. As is Dani's and Uglow's suggestion of a smaller travel cage. (This is what I do as well, btw.)

Remember that, as far as Jolly is concerned when it comes to harness training, I'm in the same boat you are. (Which is weird, as I'd have bet a significant amount of money that he'd have been the easier of my two ekkies to train.) It's frustrating, I know. Jolly would LOVE going outside! But I think we just have to remain patient. Some birds just need longer to accept being harnessed.

 

[Anansi]

Also, remember that ekkies do tend to be more sensitive to getting clipped. There have been a number of instances where clipping has actually triggered plucking.

 

[jtidwell]

A panicked bird can be a remarkably strong flier, even with clipped wings and poor skills. If it were me, wouldn't take the risk of clipping him and bringing him outside. You know Parker best, of course, but a parrot's reactions to novel things can be... surprising.

Can I say that I love the term "budgie torturebox"? Poor budgies!

 

[chris-md]

I knew I'd get the food for thought I needed. Thanks guys let me mull this all over. Got a lot to think about

 

[Christinenc2000]

pak o bird is a great idea. I just can't afford the one for a Macaw . OUCH Like you I want BB outside. Still working on the harness but does not look good so far. Checking into a second cage for outside.

Good luck Chris

 

[Birdman666]

You do have to check the wing clipping. Make sure they're still not flighted.

Again, in high wind conditions, if they catch a thermal they can still get away from you, but they won't be far. They also won't be able to get back from where ever they land, so you have to find them ASAP.

Even my flighted birds don't fly all that much.

And I'm definitely going back to clipping now!!!

I won't go looking for another bird... I only hope that Maggie comes home.

 

[coopedup]

Great topic and very informative! I havent gotten my baby yet but I've been mulling over flighted vs clipped. Im leaving her flighted when i first get her so she can get skills but havent made a decision long term. This thread has been super useful. Thanks everyone.

 

[Christinenc2000]

I agree it is a great thread

 

[camo]

When I first got Gizmo, I considered clipping his wing (my fear being if he got out, he could quickly fly out of sight). After reading and discovering that they could still get some flight (especially if startled or caught in a gust of wind), I realised it wasn't an option in my area, lots of dogs and cats. I constantly try to encourage recall (should they ever get out), but if they did find themselves outside without me, I think they would have a better chance being able to fly to escape or avoid dogs, cats and traffic.

Chris, a great topic for discussion, and a hard decision to make.

Cheers,

Camo

 

[DexMom]

Dexter is clipped, but I would still not bring him outside without a harness. I bought a vacation cage that we will also use for outside time when the weather warms up a bit.

 

[Taw5106]

When I got Venus over 14 months ago she was clipped. It was to me a severe clip, all feathers except the first and last feather had been clipped, the middle feathers were gone. I've let her feathers grow out, and right now she has four feathers that need to come in and all wing feathers will be fully grown. Mind you, she's sitting on her "fake babies" (non fertile eggs) as I call them, she doesn't try to fly however this last week she has been sitting on my shoulder and flapping, getting exercise.

So this is a HUGE concern for me too. When I put her harness on her, I place her on my bed because it's a high bed, close to her cage, and makes it easier for me, (I'm 5' 4") I open the harness all the way because there are times in which she puts her foot through the wrong section and this helps me loop her full wing into the harness one by one. Then I "synch" it, making sure there is no unexpected twisting, sliding the guide to fit her body, but not too tightly. That is how I get her "full" size wings into her harness.

Like you though I have for months been considering on whether to clip her wings. Right now I have no reason to clip since she primarily stays inside, we are going through a hormonal situation and I haven't taken her out much, and she has made no attempt to fly (note though she has been exercising her wings so that doesn't mean she won't try to fly). Also when I got her, to me the clip was horrible, all feathers but the first and last feather on each wing? Wow was that necessary from the previous owner??? That thought runs through my head but I didn't pursue it, it's history and she's with me now.


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[eclectus39]

Wing clipping is thought to be an escape prevention, but if they can get enough lift, as in a wind gust, they can still take flight. Your best bet, probably, is one of those mesh-sided backpacks with a perch in it. The harness-thing...might mainly be a great way to get bit. Depends on how docile the bird is about putting the thing on.

 

[skylala]

I would never trust a clipped bird outside for the same reasons I wouldn't trust an unclipped bird, lol.

I have been considering lately of picking up a used (but clean) baby pram/stroller with a plastic rain cover on it (or fitting it out with chicken wire) and sticking a perch inside. It will look ridiculous taking a bird out in a pram, but it will be a cheap way to enrich their lives. I have seen prams with rain cover for sale second hand for $20-$50.
I clearly haven't tried this myself yet, so not sure how difficult it would be to make the 'cage' secure, but it seems like it would work.