Psittacosis : Doxycycline or Azithromycin

[Mohitgaur088]

Is it possible to send samples out of country for precise testing?

Possible and I'm willing to do that! But it will take time- and I don't know how much time I actually have.. I'm struck between two different cultures. If she needs urgent care and treatment than I should start her treatment ASAP with the help of best vets available here. But to be honest, even the best vets here are "unknown" to the "logical" ways to treat a bird. They wanna start treatment without any tests- that's how it goes in India. We even have cockatiel breeding hubs in kolkata, millions of exotic birds in country, and a few bird hospitals as well, vets treat on the basis of their experience and symptoms- sometimes it works as well. The logical way is to go for tests, determine the reason for her situation and then approach vets for the treatment, but this requires time which I may not be having. You should know that I'm just a 17 year old guy in 12th standard who is ready to do anything for his tiel. I've anyway decided to send samples to the best places for precise testing, that's a long term plan! I'm also finding doxycycline if in case it turns out to be psittacosis then I won't like any delay in treatment. There's no other sign of worsening of her condition other than her one eye which is somewhat on the same level but hasn't improved. We're just cleaning it with a saline solution- I'm attaching pics. Any suggestion for her eyes or diet?

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[EllenD]

Alright, well what you need to do in this situation is treat for everything, meaning putting her on the correct daily dose of Doxycycline, as it is the proper treatment for Psittacosis IF it is being caused by the common bacterium Chlamydia Psittaci...The dosage I gave you is correct if you are going to have to compound it from 100mg Doxy tablets. But as Christa reinforced, 10-days is not nearly a long enough round of Doxy, it must at least be a daily dose for 21-days, and again, they are now recommending a 45-day round due to the relapse rate after a 21-day round. So you're going to at least need to do a 21-day round of Doxy, at 0.445mg once daily, And once again, as backed-up by what Christa said, IT HAS TO BE GIVEN BY-MOUTH DIRECTLY!!! Do not put it in her drinking water, she needs to get the entire dose each day or it will not work. So get some oral syringes.

***You're also going to have to treat her for a potential Yeast Infection, since you don't know if this is what is really going on (Although Yeast/Fungi should be easily identifiable from her Fecal Sample under a microscope, even without the culture being grown. Bubbles in the feces is often due to yeast in the GI Tract, but can also be caused by several different bacterial infections, hopefully the Doxycycline will cover them as well, as it is a broad-spectrum and strong antibiotic.

The Probiotic can only help and will not do any harm, so I highly suggest that you start that once daily right away, regardless of anything else. Probiotics will also aide in lowering the pH of her GI Tract, making it a more-acidic environment, which also aides in killing-off yeast. Lactobacillus and Acidophillus are both excellent at lowering the GI pH levels. My birds get a Probiotic once daily as a protective mechanism and they've never suffered from any type of infections, and as I said, it won't do any harm and can only help. As far as actually treating a possible Yeast/Fungal infection, that has to be treated by a prescription Anti-Fungal med, as Christa already mentioned, and I highly advise you to put her on one of these too if possible to get one, such as Nystatin; Better yet is a daily dose of Amphotericin B, if possible to obtain, at a dose of 100mg of Amphotericin B per 1kg of body weight, twice a day for 10 days. I don't know what oral Anti-Fungal meds you have access to...

Either way, I agree that in your situation you need to start the DIRECT Oral Doxycycline dose, as if this is Psittacosis the Doxy will definitely clear it up as long as you are able to provide her with a direct oral dose each day for at least 21-days. Regardless of whether she does have a yeast/fungal infection, she should also be given a daily Probiotic to help prevent against the development of one due to the Doxycycline, as it's a very strong, broad-spectrum antibiotic, and being on it for such a long period of time will very likely cause the growth of yeast in her GI Tract, even if she doesn't have that issue right now...

Were you able to find the Doxycycline tablets?

 

[Mohitgaur088]

No big store here had doxycycline tablets but I found them here- https://m.netmeds.com/prescriptions/edox-dt-100mg-tablet-8-s (pls do check the product) and have asked this store to deliver ASAP.

Alright, well what you need to do in this situation is treat for everything, meaning putting her on the correct daily dose of Doxycycline, as it is the proper treatment for Psittacosis IF it is being caused by the common bacterium Chlamydia Psittaci...The dosage I gave you is correct if you are going to have to compound it from 100mg Doxy tablets. But as Christa reinforced, 10-days is not nearly a long enough round of Doxy, it must at least be a daily dose for 21-days, and again, they are now recommending a 45-day round due to the relapse rate after a 21-day round. So you're going to at least need to do a 21-day round of Doxy, at 0.445mg once daily, And once again, as backed-up by what Christa said, IT HAS TO BE GIVEN BY-MOUTH DIRECTLY!!! Do not put it in her drinking water, she needs to get the entire dose each day or it will not work. So get some oral syringes.

***You're also going to have to treat her for a potential Yeast Infection, since you don't know if this is what is really going on (Although Yeast/Fungi should be easily identifiable from her Fecal Sample under a microscope, even without the culture being grown. Bubbles in the feces is often due to yeast in the GI Tract, but can also be caused by several different bacterial infections, hopefully the Doxycycline will cover them as well, as it is a broad-spectrum and strong antibiotic.

The Probiotic can only help and will not do any harm, so I highly suggest that you start that once daily right away, regardless of anything else. Probiotics will also aide in lowering the pH of her GI Tract, making it a more-acidic environment, which also aides in killing-off yeast. Lactobacillus and Acidophillus are both excellent at lowering the GI pH levels. My birds get a Probiotic once daily as a protective mechanism and they've never suffered from any type of infections, and as I said, it won't do any harm and can only help. As far as actually treating a possible Yeast/Fungal infection, that has to be treated by a prescription Anti-Fungal med, as Christa already mentioned, and I highly advise you to put her on one of these too if possible to get one, such as Nystatin; Better yet is a daily dose of Amphotericin B, if possible to obtain, at a dose of 100mg of Amphotericin B per 1kg of body weight, twice a day for 10 days. I don't know what oral Anti-Fungal meds you have access to...

Either way, I agree that in your situation you need to start the DIRECT Oral Doxycycline dose, as if this is Psittacosis the Doxy will definitely clear it up as long as you are able to provide her with a direct oral dose each day for at least 21-days. Regardless of whether she does have a yeast/fungal infection, she should also be given a daily Probiotic to help prevent against the development of one due to the Doxycycline, as it's a very strong, broad-spectrum antibiotic, and being on it for such a long period of time will very likely cause the growth of yeast in her GI Tract, even if she doesn't have that issue right now...

Were you able to find the Doxycycline tablets?

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[EllenD]

Here's a link to the current FDA guidelines for treat Psittacosis in birds; obviously you want the treatment for Psittacines (parrots)...It discusses the differences between treating the most common form of Psittacosis, caused by the bacterium Chlamydia Psittaci, with Doxycycline, and treating the few other bacterium that rarely cause it with other drugs, the main one being Tetracycline...I think reading this might help you understand what is going on quite better...

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/psittacosis.pdf

An even better link, the Merck Veterinary Medicine Medical, which is literally the handbook for treating disease/infection in the US for both humans and for animals, also lists basically the same protocol for treating with Doxycycline, backed-up by Tetracycline...The only mention of Azithromycin I've seen anywhere discusses using BOTH Doxycycline and Azithromycin at the same time if first treating with only Doxycycline results in a relapse...And both of these also recommend a 45-day round of the Doxycycline as of 2017-2018, due to relapse after only 21-days of treatment:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/avian-chlamydiosis/overview-of-avian-chlamydiosis

That Avian Vet who wrote you the note about treating your bird with Doxycycline, have you asked her about where she would get the Doxy tablets?

 

[Mohitgaur088]

Here's a link to the current FDA guidelines for treat Psittacosis in birds; obviously you want the treatment for Psittacines (parrots)...It discusses the differences between treating the most common form of Psittacosis, caused by the bacterium Chlamydia Psittaci, with Doxycycline, and treating the few other bacterium that rarely cause it with other drugs, the main one being Tetracycline...I think reading this might help you understand what is going on quite better...

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/psittacosis.pdf

An even better link, the Merck Veterinary Medicine Medical, which is literally the handbook for treating disease/infection in the US for both humans and for animals, also lists basically the same protocol for treating with Doxycycline, backed-up by Tetracycline...The only mention of Azithromycin I've seen anywhere discusses using BOTH Doxycycline and Azithromycin at the same time if first treating with only Doxycycline results in a relapse...And both of these also recommend a 45-day round of the Doxycycline as of 2017-2018, due to relapse after only 21-days of treatment:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/avian-chlamydiosis/overview-of-avian-chlamydiosis

That Avian Vet who wrote you the note about treating your bird with Doxycycline, have you asked her about where she would get the Doxy tablets?

It's morning here and I'm going out there to get as many resources as possible. We're arranging Benebac as well, if we can't do that I'll look for other options https://www.amazon.in/Pet-Care-Inte...SY170_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=probiotic+for+pets How's this Probiotic+enzymes supplement? We need a probiotic only supplement?

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[Scott]

You should know that I'm just a 17 year old guy in 12th standard who is ready to do anything for his tiel.

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Impossible to sufficiently praise you for your dedication. Great respect for persistence in finding the best therapy for Shine!

 

[Mohitgaur088]

Impossible to sufficiently praise you for your dedication. Great respect for persistence in finding the best therapy for Shine!

Thanks for your words Can you please tell how's this pro-biotic? https://www.amazon.in/Pet-Care...65&keywords=probiotic+for+pets

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[Laurasea]

If you find a chicken , livestock place they make doxycycline that is a powder you add to water, not the best but it works. Just an idea if you have a farm or poultry producer near you, they might have a way to get ahold of the doxycycline. You can feed a small amount of plain yogurt with active cultures....the cultures matched the ones on the probiotics I bought..

 

[EllenD]

You certainly can use a Probiotic that also contains Digestive Enzymes, I have been giving my birds the same formulation for years once a day. The Digestive Enzymes also can only help, not hurt, and that looks like a good Probiotic to give him.

Again, have you emailed/called that Vet who wrote the note about treating with Doxycycline? That would be the very first person i would ask about where to get the Doxycycline tablets, since she is the one who recommended that treatment...She's a licensed Veterinarian, she can certainly write and fill a prescription for you and ship it to you, I would think...Or, she may have a Veterinary contact near you that she could call and arrange for them to provide you the Doxy tablets...

As Laura mentioned above, if you have access to any farming supply stores or Livestock/Poultry Veterinarians near you, both Doxycycline and Tetracycline Hydrochloride are used heavily in Livestock and Poultry medicine, and they would no doubt have ample supplies of Doxycycline, probably in both tablets and in the IM Injectable liquid formulation, which is exactly the same as the oral suspension formulation. Livestock and Poultry Veterinarians use all of the antibiotics in the Penicillin and Tetracycline families every single day, so if that Avian Vet who wrote that note about the Doxy can't help you, then I'd seek out a livestock or poultry vet...

Where exactly do you live? (meaning city) I'm going to contact my CAV right now by email and see if he has any suggestions; he's been my CAV for years and years, he's been an CAV for 25+ years, went to the University of Pennsylvania Vet School, and he has helped me numerous times in answering questions from people on this forum, finding the closest CAV to people looking for help on this forum, etc. He's extremely dedicated and helpful, and he never has a problem reaching out to his contacts at U of Penn Vet School for help and suggestions, and that might be your biggest asset, because the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine is one of the most highly-regarded in the world, and they have connections all over the world. So he might be able to make some suggestions or even help with the meds in some way...I'll email him right now, he usually responds back to me extremely quickly because he's also the CAV for the Avian/Reptile Rescue I volunteer at, so he always gets back to me right away because I may be at the Rescue with a medical issue. But if you can, let me know what city you live in so I can let him know...

 

[Mohitgaur088]

I live in Debai, district Bulandshahr, Uttar Pradesh, India Pin 203393. It will be great if he finds a CAV near me, I've emailed that Vet for doxy tabs and also asked in that email if she is in touch with a qualified avian vet here in my area. I'm expecting her reply within a few hours.
Also, tomorrow morning we're sending samples to a big laboratory in the country- they are qualified enough to identify chlamydia- they have asked for eye swab and stool. Is it all that will be needed? Also suggestions on sending an eye swab? We certainly don't want to send a sample which turns out to be useless on observation there in lab. How long culture should take?
Presently her situation is very stable, but I wanna do something for her eyes. A junior government employed vet will be visiting us soon though he's not specialized in birds, I'll ask him if he has doxy tabs/powder. He suggested Carboxymethylcellulose Sodium eyedrops. Should we try something else for her eyes?



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[EllenD]

I will send your location to my CAV...I spoke to him yesterday, and he said that your bird may or may not have Psittacosis, or he may simply have some type of conjunctivitis (Such as Cockatiel Conjunctivitis, which is genetic), along with a GI Tract infection caused by a bacterial infection, fungal infection, or both...It's impossible to definitely diagnose Psittacosis without a blood test for the bacteria or antibodies to the bacteria; he said that sometimes the specific bacteria can be identified in the sputum of the bird, so in addition to the Fecal Culture and the Eye Culture, he said they should also be testing a Culture from the back of his throat/mouth. He said he would be doing a sinus-flush with sterile saline and then culturing the fluid that comes back out after the flush, but that's not possible for you to do safely. So I would ask the lab if they would also want a swab from the back of your bird's throat/trachea...

Collect the freshest dropping possible, right before you mail them, or if you take droppings from the night before you send them, put them in a sterile plastic baggie and put it in the fridge (not the freezer) and keep it cold...

The eye swab will require a sterile Q-Tip/Cotton Swab and then also a sterile plastic baggie to put it in. You want to gently swab all around the outer border of his eye, along with in the corner of his eye, careful to not touch his feathers or skin with the swab, nor touch the swab with your hands/fingers. Try to collect some fluid from the eye, along with a small bit of the exudate/pus coming from his eye. It doesn't require much at all. Take it as close to the time you are sending it out as possible. If they do want to also take a swab from the back of his throat/trachea, then you do the same thing, gently swab the back of his throat by swiping the tip of the cotton swab on the back of his throat and putting it in a baggie...Be sure to label each bag as to what swab it is.

If this vet coming to visit you knows how to take blood from a parrot, it would be a good idea to get it tested specifically for Psittacosis, however you'll be treating for Psittacosis with the Doxycycline anyway, so you're covering all your bases that way even if you can't get a blood test for the specific bacteria or antibodies.

As far as the eye drops/treatment, it should be bases on the results of the eye culture...He will no-doubt need a prescription eye drop that contains an antibiotic, an anti-fungal, or both. The carboxymethylcellulose Sodium eyedrops that the vet suggested are nothing but sterile water and saline, they are not an effective treatment for a bacterial or fungal conjunctivitis. They can help to flush his eye out, which may bring him relief, so that's fine, but you need to know that they are in no way a treatment for the conjunctivitis, and will not get rid of the infection. Usually they prescribe an eyedrop called Neo Poly Dex, which contains an antibiotic, an anti-fungal, and a sugar (dextrose). It's a fantastic treatment for conjunctivitis because it covers pretty much everything...Other commonly used prescription eyedrops for infection include Terramycin (either a drop or a salve) or Ciprofloxacin eyedrops/salve, but giving eyedrops such as these two are based on the culture results because they treat only specific conjunctivitis caused by specific bacteria, and do not also treat a fungal infection. This is why the most-commonly prescribed eyedrop/treatment for conjunctivitis in all of Veterinary Medicine is the Neo-Poly Dextrose drops, and that's what I would highly recommend that you ask for or look to buy somewhere, because it will treat most-all bacterial conjunctivitis and/or fungal conjunctivitis, whether it's being caused by Psittacosis or not. It's an extremely common prescription eyedrop/drug in Veterinary Medicine, and should not be hard to find anywhere in the world. It's widely used in dogs, cats, livestock, poultry, parrots, reptiles, rodents, primates, etc. Again, the Carboxymethylcellulose Sodium eyedrops that the vet suggested to you are NOT A TREATMENT/CURE FOR THE CONJUNTIVITIS, THEY ARE SIMPLY A SALINE EYEDROP THAT IS MEANT TO FLUSH OUT THE EXUDATE FROM THE EYE AND MAKE THE EYE FEEL BETTER, BUT WILL NOT GET RID OF THE INFECTION IN ANY WAY.

 

[Mohitgaur088]

I will send your location to my CAV...I spoke to him yesterday, and he said that your bird may or may not have Psittacosis, or he may simply have some type of conjunctivitis (Such as Cockatiel Conjunctivitis, which is genetic), along with a GI Tract infection caused by a bacterial infection, fungal infection, or both...It's impossible to definitely diagnose Psittacosis without a blood test for the bacteria or antibodies to the bacteria; he said that sometimes the specific bacteria can be identified in the sputum of the bird, so in addition to the Fecal Culture and the Eye Culture, he said they should also be testing a Culture from the back of his throat/mouth. He said he would be doing a sinus-flush with sterile saline and then culturing the fluid that comes back out after the flush, but that's not possible for you to do safely. So I would ask the lab if they would also want a swab from the back of your bird's throat/trachea...

Collect the freshest dropping possible, right before you mail them, or if you take droppings from the night before you send them, put them in a sterile plastic baggie and put it in the fridge (not the freezer) and keep it cold...

The eye swab will require a sterile Q-Tip/Cotton Swab and then also a sterile plastic baggie to put it in. You want to gently swab all around the outer border of his eye, along with in the corner of his eye, careful to not touch his feathers or skin with the swab, nor touch the swab with your hands/fingers. Try to collect some fluid from the eye, along with a small bit of the exudate/pus coming from his eye. It doesn't require much at all. Take it as close to the time you are sending it out as possible. If they do want to also take a swab from the back of his throat/trachea, then you do the same thing, gently swab the back of his throat by swiping the tip of the cotton swab on the back of his throat and putting it in a baggie...Be sure to label each bag as to what swab it is.

If this vet coming to visit you knows how to take blood from a parrot, it would be a good idea to get it tested specifically for Psittacosis, however you'll be treating for Psittacosis with the Doxycycline anyway, so you're covering all your bases that way even if you can't get a blood test for the specific bacteria or antibodies.

As far as the eye drops/treatment, it should be bases on the results of the eye culture...He will no-doubt need a prescription eye drop that contains an antibiotic, an anti-fungal, or both. The carboxymethylcellulose Sodium eyedrops that the vet suggested are nothing but sterile water and saline, they are not an effective treatment for a bacterial or fungal conjunctivitis. They can help to flush his eye out, which may bring him relief, so that's fine, but you need to know that they are in no way a treatment for the conjunctivitis, and will not get rid of the infection. Usually they prescribe an eyedrop called Neo Poly Dex, which contains an antibiotic, an anti-fungal, and a sugar (dextrose). It's a fantastic treatment for conjunctivitis because it covers pretty much everything...Other commonly used prescription eyedrops for infection include Terramycin (either a drop or a salve) or Ciprofloxacin eyedrops/salve, but giving eyedrops such as these two are based on the culture results because they treat only specific conjunctivitis caused by specific bacteria, and do not also treat a fungal infection. This is why the most-commonly prescribed eyedrop/treatment for conjunctivitis in all of Veterinary Medicine is the Neo-Poly Dextrose drops, and that's what I would highly recommend that you ask for or look to buy somewhere, because it will treat most-all bacterial conjunctivitis and/or fungal conjunctivitis, whether it's being caused by Psittacosis or not. It's an extremely common prescription eyedrop/drug in Veterinary Medicine, and should not be hard to find anywhere in the world. It's widely used in dogs, cats, livestock, poultry, parrots, reptiles, rodents, primates, etc. Again, the Carboxymethylcellulose Sodium eyedrops that the vet suggested to you are NOT A TREATMENT/CURE FOR THE CONJUNTIVITIS, THEY ARE SIMPLY A SALINE EYEDROP THAT IS MEANT TO FLUSH OUT THE EXUDATE FROM THE EYE AND MAKE THE EYE FEEL BETTER, BUT WILL NOT GET RID OF THE INFECTION IN ANY WAY.

I'll do things as suggested by you. Also, pls check if you meant this https://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9724 by that Neo Poly Dex eye drop, here on this website it says it's antibacterial+steroid only and in faq section under who should not take it, it says it's not for fungal infections. Did you mean some other eye drop? Mentioning chemical composition is a bit more helpful as name often changes by place......

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[EllenD]

That is what I was talking about, though I was thinking of a different drop that I need to identify that treats both...Either way, if you can get a hold of some Neo Poly Dex without trouble I'd advise it...I'll have to do some research, as I have always given the Neo Poly Dex under the impression it treated both fungi and bacteria. I'll get back to you on that one when I get a chance here, but the Neo Poly Dex is the standard of treatment for conjunctivitis in birds, it works quite well all the way around...

 

[Mohitgaur088]

That is what I was talking about, though I was thinking of a different drop that I need to identify that treats both...Either way, if you can get a hold of some Neo Poly Dex without trouble I'd advise it...I'll have to do some research, as I have always given the Neo Poly Dex under the impression it treated both fungi and bacteria. I'll get back to you on that one when I get a chance here, but the Neo Poly Dex is the standard of treatment for conjunctivitis in birds, it works quite well all the way around...

One quick thing, that sample contains just one little dropping...they just need green part of it right? So it shouldn't be a problem at all....

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[EllenD]

That is what I was talking about, though I was thinking of a different drop that I need to identify that treats both...Either way, if you can get a hold of some Neo Poly Dex without trouble I'd advise it...I'll have to do some research, as I have always given the Neo Poly Dex under the impression it treated both fungi and bacteria. I'll get back to you on that one when I get a chance here, but the Neo Poly Dex is the standard of treatment for conjunctivitis in birds, it works quite well all the way around...

One quick thing, that sample contains just one little dropping...they just need green part of it right? So it shouldn't be a problem at all....

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You mean the fecal sample? It should be alright, as there will be urates in it even if they aren't visible to you, but they have to culture both the feces and the urates/look at them under the scope...The white part of their droppings is the "urates", kind of like our urine, but they can actually look at it/culture it to look at the health of the Urinary/Renal tract, as well as how well the bird is eliminating certain toxins and by-products, such as uric acid. But again, there will have been urate in the fecal sample even though you couldn't see it, so it should be fine...

 

[Mohitgaur088]

That is what I was talking about, though I was thinking of a different drop that I need to identify that treats both...Either way, if you can get a hold of some Neo Poly Dex without trouble I'd advise it...I'll have to do some research, as I have always given the Neo Poly Dex under the impression it treated both fungi and bacteria. I'll get back to you on that one when I get a chance here, but the Neo Poly Dex is the standard of treatment for conjunctivitis in birds, it works quite well all the way around...

One quick thing, that sample contains just one little dropping...they just need green part of it right? So it shouldn't be a problem at all....

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You mean the fecal sample? It should be alright, as there will be urates in it even if they aren't visible to you, but they have to culture both the feces and the urates/look at them under the scope...The white part of their droppings is the "urates", kind of like our urine, but they can actually look at it/culture it to look at the health of the Urinary/Renal tract, as well as how well the bird is eliminating certain toxins and by-products, such as uric acid. But again, there will have been urate in the fecal sample even though you couldn't see it, so it should be fine...

Sorry for being inactive for sometime :-( I was a lot busy and had to take samples with me to the lab because courier had some serious policy issues. I got neo poly dex and her eye is a lot better now. And she was being given yogurt for probiotics, but today only that pro-biotic has also been delivered, it's a 100 gram pack. How am I supposed to give it? It says 2 grams per litre of water! How often should water be changed? How to store prepared water? Also, I've doxy-cycline 100 mg tablets but department of state vets who visited us have told me to not to give doxy until test results are out, they are gonna take a few more days.
She's a lot better and active now with her molt almost ending and healed eye issue. We haven't noticed any other symptom.
Btw, is neo poly dex good for both bacterial and fungal issues?


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[Scott]

Thanks for checking in, of course you are busy attending to important issues. Glad Shine is doing better overall, you are doing a great job managing the symptoms until testing gives clues for targeted treatment.

Ellen has great expertise with meds; I'm sure she'll notice and respond!

 

[EllenD]

Sorry, I was wondering how you were doing...Yes, I verified with my own CAV that I was correct about the Neo Poly Dex, it's broad-spectrum for bacterian AND it treats the most common fungal infections that occur, including yeast.

I totally agree about holding off on giving the Doxy until you get the lab results back, because Doxycycline is a very strong and GI-irritating antibiotic, and unless you're certain it's Psittacosis, or unless you're absolutely certain he actually has a bacterial infection at all, then you should not give him ANY antibiotic...That's exactly what I was trying to tell you before, these Vets that just prescribe antibiotics without knowing if they are needed or if they are the correct ones are playing with fire with birds...If your bird has a GI Fungal Infection and you give him any antibiotic, it can and probably will make the fungal infection much, much worse...So I'd hold-off on giving the Doxy until you get ALL of the lab results back, and then go from there...But I'm glad you have it on-hand, as it's likely he does have Psittacosis based on his symptoms...

I'm glad the conjunctivitis is getting better, the Neo Poly Dex is great stuff. Keep in-mind that if he does test positive for Psittacosis, the conjunctivitis will likely come back until he finishes the long course of Doxycycline, as the conjunctivitis is being caused by the bacteria causing the Psittacosis, and the Neo Poly Dex will treat it/cure it "locally", meaning directly in his eyes, but systemically the Psittacosis will keep causing relapse until he finishes the entire 21 or better the 45-day course of Doxy, because Psittacosis is sooooo good at hiding and hanging-around and then coming back with a fury after you think the bird is perfectly fine...

****What Probiotic exactly did you get? Do not EVER, EVER, EVER put ANY medications, vitamin, supplement, etc., not anything in your bird's drinking water!!!!
It contaminates the water as soon as you put it in it, bacteria and fungi both start growing in the water and on the dish, and this could actually be detrimental to your bird...Plus, you have no idea how much your bird is actually ingesting, as they don't drink much water at all throughout the day, so it's usually worthless anyway, but the danger it causes with the water is reason enough to not EVER add anything to it...And if a Vet ever tells you to give your bird a medication or anything else in his drinking water,
get a new Vet!!!

I give my birds a daily Probiotic supplement that is a powder that comes in a bottle with a pre-measured scoop, and I simply sprinkle the pre-measured dose all over their pellets and/or seed-mix, and they're good to go. The nice thing about Probiotics is that they are't something that the dosing has to be exact on at all, same as giving him the yogurt, that's a great way to give him Probiotics (as long as it's a non-dairy yogurt, like soy yogurt, because lactose makes them sick)...The Probiotic powder is going to be much more potent than the yogurt though, so it's fine if you simply sprinkle it right onto/into her daily seed-mix when you give it to her first thing in the morning, every morning. She will ingest enough of the Probiotic powder by simply shelling all of her seeds in her mouth...That's what I would have told you to do if you had gotten a bottle of Acidophilus tablets or any other Probiotic tablet, just grind a tablet into a powder once a day and then sprinkle the powder throughout her seed-mix or pellets, whatever it is that she eats, so that the entire bowl of seed-mix or pellets gets a coating of the powder...It's actually easier if you feed a seed-mix, because you can easily coat all the seeds in the bowl by mixing it up well, and then she'll basically get a small bit of Probiotic with ever seed she shells. And the powder sticks well to the outer seed shells...So just sprinkle the recommended dose over her seed-mix, mix it up well so all the seeds are covered in the dish, and then you're good to go. Do this once a day in the morning when you give her fresh seeds/pellets. And keep her on the Probiotic throughout the entire time she's on the Doxy (if the labs come back that way), and for at least a week after she finishes the antibiotics, to keep her Gut full of normal, healthy bacteria to fight-off the yeast/fungi that loves to grow there...

*****Let us know the lab results as you get them back, and use that information to determine whether the Doxy is going to be required. I have a good feeling it will be, but you always want to be sure before giving your bird any medication. And keep up the Neo Poly Dex once a day, until either the conjunctivitis is totally gone, or until the Doxycycline is finished, depending on how the labs go...

 

[Mohitgaur088]

Sorry, I was wondering how you were doing...Yes, I verified with my own CAV that I was correct about the Neo Poly Dex, it's broad-spectrum for bacterian AND it treats the most common fungal infections that occur, including yeast.

I totally agree about holding off on giving the Doxy until you get the lab results back, because Doxycycline is a very strong and GI-irritating antibiotic, and unless you're certain it's Psittacosis, or unless you're absolutely certain he actually has a bacterial infection at all, then you should not give him ANY antibiotic...That's exactly what I was trying to tell you before, these Vets that just prescribe antibiotics without knowing if they are needed or if they are the correct ones are playing with fire with birds...If your bird has a GI Fungal Infection and you give him any antibiotic, it can and probably will make the fungal infection much, much worse...So I'd hold-off on giving the Doxy until you get ALL of the lab results back, and then go from there...But I'm glad you have it on-hand, as it's likely he does have Psittacosis based on his symptoms...

I'm glad the conjunctivitis is getting better, the Neo Poly Dex is great stuff. Keep in-mind that if he does test positive for Psittacosis, the conjunctivitis will likely come back until he finishes the long course of Doxycycline, as the conjunctivitis is being caused by the bacteria causing the Psittacosis, and the Neo Poly Dex will treat it/cure it "locally", meaning directly in his eyes, but systemically the Psittacosis will keep causing relapse until he finishes the entire 21 or better the 45-day course of Doxy, because Psittacosis is sooooo good at hiding and hanging-around and then coming back with a fury after you think the bird is perfectly fine...

****What Probiotic exactly did you get? Do not EVER, EVER, EVER put ANY medications, vitamin, supplement, etc., not anything in your bird's drinking water!!!!
It contaminates the water as soon as you put it in it, bacteria and fungi both start growing in the water and on the dish, and this could actually be detrimental to your bird...Plus, you have no idea how much your bird is actually ingesting, as they don't drink much water at all throughout the day, so it's usually worthless anyway, but the danger it causes with the water is reason enough to not EVER add anything to it...And if a Vet ever tells you to give your bird a medication or anything else in his drinking water,
get a new Vet!!!

I give my birds a daily Probiotic supplement that is a powder that comes in a bottle with a pre-measured scoop, and I simply sprinkle the pre-measured dose all over their pellets and/or seed-mix, and they're good to go. The nice thing about Probiotics is that they are't something that the dosing has to be exact on at all, same as giving him the yogurt, that's a great way to give him Probiotics (as long as it's a non-dairy yogurt, like soy yogurt, because lactose makes them sick)...The Probiotic powder is going to be much more potent than the yogurt though, so it's fine if you simply sprinkle it right onto/into her daily seed-mix when you give it to her first thing in the morning, every morning. She will ingest enough of the Probiotic powder by simply shelling all of her seeds in her mouth...That's what I would have told you to do if you had gotten a bottle of Acidophilus tablets or any other Probiotic tablet, just grind a tablet into a powder once a day and then sprinkle the powder throughout her seed-mix or pellets, whatever it is that she eats, so that the entire bowl of seed-mix or pellets gets a coating of the powder...It's actually easier if you feed a seed-mix, because you can easily coat all the seeds in the bowl by mixing it up well, and then she'll basically get a small bit of Probiotic with ever seed she shells. And the powder sticks well to the outer seed shells...So just sprinkle the recommended dose over her seed-mix, mix it up well so all the seeds are covered in the dish, and then you're good to go. Do this once a day in the morning when you give her fresh seeds/pellets. And keep her on the Probiotic throughout the entire time she's on the Doxy (if the labs come back that way), and for at least a week after she finishes the antibiotics, to keep her Gut full of normal, healthy bacteria to fight-off the yeast/fungi that loves to grow there...

*****Let us know the lab results as you get them back, and use that information to determine whether the Doxy is going to be required. I have a good feeling it will be, but you always want to be sure before giving your bird any medication. And keep up the Neo Poly Dex once a day, until either the conjunctivitis is totally gone, or until the Doxycycline is finished, depending on how the labs go...

This is just a big issue here...people...vets.. Everyone just wants to use water for medicines :-( Anyways this pro-biotic is in powdered form and can be mixed with food easily. I'll mix it in her seeds. I know quantity doesn't need to be exact in case of probiotic, but roughly what amount of it should be mixed in her food bowl daily? Given it says 2 grams per litre in water (and we aren't gonna use water).!

Sent from my YU5010A using Tapatalk

 

[EllenD]

It's hard to go by what it says to put into the water, because you don't know if they are directing a larger amount because they want you put it in the drinking water and they know that the bird won't drink much water, or if that's the actual amount they want the bird to ingest (I doubt that)...I don't know what Probiotics are actually in the mix that you have, or the amounts in each serving, but I can tell you that the amount of powder that you usually sprinkle on their food/seeds is probably between 1-2 grams if I had to estimate. So I'd go ahead and mix the entire 2-grams in with her seeds, and be sure to mix them up very well, so that all of the seeds get a good coating of the powder. You can't hurt her with Probiotics, only help, especially in her current situation, so that's why I'd just go ahead and add the entire 2 grams. You know she's not going to actually ingest anywhere near that amount, so it's best to use the entire amount as directed, because it can only help her.

I don't know why Vets insist upon prescribing medications to be put into their drinking water (these are usually Exotic's Vets and not Certified Avian Vets or Avian Specialists, as they know the importance of getting an exact-dose into the bird, and that too little or too much could be catastrophic, as well as making their drinking water unsafe to drink)...I'm the medical liaison at the Avian and Reptile Rescue I work at, and there is no Certified Herp/Reptile Vet in the area right now, so we have to use an Exotic's Vet for the Reptiles/Amphibians for right now (we just lost an excellent Certified Herp Vet to retirement)...I did a medical-intake on a Bearded Dragon this past month who was suffering from a host of problems due to poor-care by their owner, and he also had a huge abscess on one of his legs from a bite he got from another Dragon that was never treated at all, and it got very badly infected. So I did a needle-aspiration of the abscess and sent a sample of the fluid/pus to this new Exotic's Veterinary Office in town that says they "specialize in Reptiles"...yeah, right...So one of the Exotic's Vet from this office called me back to tell me that "he didn't need to see the Bearded Dragon because the culture came back and they grew-out the bacteria causing the infection, and he wanted me to do regular, daily "wound care" on the leg (which I had already been doing since day one, I just wanted to get him started on the proper antibiotic for the infection, and for that I needed a Vet and a lab)...Then this Exotic's Vet told me he was prescribing him oral Cefuroxime as an antibiotic, I said great, I'll send someone over to pick it up...So the volunteer came back with a huge pouch of powdered Cefuroxime that was supposed to be added to the Dragon's daily drinking water...Bearded Dragons don't drink water, they have no concept of what standing water even is, and they get all of their hydration from the live insects and the fresh veggies/greens that they eat! With the exception of some Beardies drinking a little water when they are in a bath, that's it...Forgetting that giving any animal an antibiotic in their drinking water is horrible practice and is irresponsible and unsafe, This was an Exotic's Vet who "specialized in Reptiles", and they didn't know that Bearded Dragons don't regularly drink water from a bowl! I had to call the office back and wait for this Vet to call me back at the end of his work day and then argue with me about this, until he finally took my advice and did a Google search for "Do Bearded Dragons drink water?"...I couldn't believe it...So this poor Dragon waited 2 extra days to get started on an antibiotic because this Exotic's Vet didn't know enough to give a Beardie an oral-suspension instead of powder to put in his "drinking water", lol...So yeah, it's a huge problem everywhere...

Keep us posted!!!