Problematic and scared young IRN

[adz1984]

It's only when I put my hand inside the cage or close to her on her cage-top gym and if by attack you mean bite then yes she attacks but I don't give her the chance to anymore by closing my hand into a fist, sometimes she won't lunge or bite but make angry sounds instead like demonstrated in my romeo & juliet video I posted here yesterday! As for target training i almost didn't have to train her she picked it up right away even moving from inside to outside cage, however sometimes she won't do it.

pinginio: can you describe what he does when out of sight of cage? is he still aggressive?
You can store pictures on here.. check out ..
http://www.parrotforums.com/technical-support/6287-how-post-pictures.html

 

[SilverSage]

Have you researched Bluffing in asiatic parrots? I highly suggest reading up on that. If closing your hand into a fist prevents bites, that's great.

I also suggest you keep your hands out of the cage as much as possible until you have a better relationship. Her behavior tells you that she doesn't like you putting your hand there, and your goal is to get her to like you, so...


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[adz1984]

I feel like i kinda hijacked this guys thread, I don't wanna be that guy.. while we both have problem's with asiatic parrots we both don't have the same problem. So I'm going to open this discussion in my own thread as I do want to resolve this
good luck pinguino!

 

[pinguino]

Guys! I have some news
I took Pablo to the vet yesterday. She told me he was a bit fat (I just thought he was extra fluffy)... She asked me how I attempt to train him and I told her. Then she asked me what he eats. And I told her that he has all kinds of fresh veggies and fruit and seeds every day. And she told me "1) That's why he's fat and 2) That's why you can't train him because why would he risk coming to you where there is possible danger when he has all he needs in the cage?". She also told me to switch out his primary diet with pellets and to use his favorite food (seeds/fruit) only for rewards for training. I felt so stupid because this simple advice made so much sense. That's what I was doing wrong. So I changed that today, and of course he doesn't really like the pellets, but guys...! He takes food now finally through the cage bars from my hand!!! He even nibbled on my fingers gently a few times! I now have hope that I will be able to tame him eventually. I have to admit, as I saw his head slowly move towards my fingers, I already started to cry some happy tears... Also, apart from being a bit on the heavy side, Pablo is completely healthy I will continue now according to the advice the vet and SilverSage have given me and I hope we will make even more progress! I feel so happy right now!

 

[SilverSage]

That's fantastic!!!


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[EllenD]

My first thought for you is CLIP HIS WINGS IMMEDIATELY!!! As a bird breeder/hand-raiser of over 20 years I can tell you that I am a full believer in clipping a bird's outermost 4-5 primary flight feathers on both wings when you first bring them into your home, whether they were hand-raised or not. This does two things: #1) It allows you to get closer to them and especially not have to chase them while you're trying to tame/train them. Chasing a bird all around your apartment is only scaring him more. #2) It teaches them pretty directly that they'll have to rely on you to get where they need to go, like back to their home. So if he is on the floor and wants back up in his cage, he will learn very quickly that you are his only mode of transportation. This is a very powerful trust-earning tool! Now this being said, all 4 of my parrots are fully flighted, I let their wings grow in after we had bonded, I had earned their trust, and I could handle them easily. By only clipping the outermost 5 primary flight feathers he will be able to glide down to land and he won't just slam into the floor, and it will allow him to go forward (within reason) but he won't be able to elevate. So he won't be able to fly up to the high areas away from you and hide, nor from the floor or the couch, etc. back up to his cage. They grow back fully in about 3 months or so, and if you're still working with him at that point you can have them clipped again. No harm at all. He's fully fledged and knows how to fly very well, he won't forget.

Now as far as hand-taming him there are a million methods, as you've already seen. SilverSage has a good approach to try, and I have another. I use the more boring approach but I've never not been able to hand-tame a bird. Indian Ringnecks are weird ones and they do think in a completely different way than most other birds, but there are certain elements of basic training that still apply. First of all, I would beg you not to wear gloves. That's going to scare him even more. I know bites hurt, but if you do this correctly you shouldn't get bitten often because you're going to advance only at his pace. I'm glad his cage is in the main room of your house where you are at most of the time, that's step one. Step two is getting a perch long enough that you can stick it into his cage and get him to step up onto it. The stick/perch is the way you're going to get him in and out of his cage before he's tame.

If you haven't tried this method you should give it a try, it's a daily training technique and you must do it daily and often, and it's boring no doubt, but it works. After you get his wings clipped, you're going to put a chair next to his cage. The first step is opening his cage up while he's inside it and setting your hand (no gloves) just inside his cage. If he doesn't completely freak out, then you're going to move your hand very slowly towards him, only to the point where he doesn't move away. If he completely goes crazy when you first put your hand right inside his cage, then you're going to move your hand back to being just outside of the cage door, sitting on the door perhaps. And this is it. Not flashy, not exciting. But you get your hand, no gloves, inside his cage, as close as you can get it to him, and just sit there that way for a good 20-30 minutes, all the while your hand will just sit still, but you need to be talking to him softly the entire session. Read him a book. You want him to focus on you only so make sure the TV, radio, etc. is off and he's only listening to you. After your hand has been inside his cage and you've spoken or read to him for a good 20-30 minutes, you need to tell him what a good bird he is and give him his favorite treat. You can do this as many times a day as you want to, but give him a long break in between sessions. Each time the idea is going to be to try to get your hand closer to him. When you get to the point that he's not totally freaking out and he just sits there, I always put their favorite treat in the hand that is sitting inside the cage while I'm reading to them. Now at the same time you're doing these sessions you can try to use the perch to get him back into his cage. Usually they come out on their own, and I'm assuming your bird does, so the long wooden perch will now be used to put him back in now that his wings are clipped. He can't get back up by himself, so there are two ways to do this. If you're hand-inside-the-cage sessions are going well you can try using your finger to help him back to the cage, if that doesn't work use the perch by slowly reaching it towards him and stopping when it gets right in front of him. He may step up onto himself, so let it sit in front of him for a minute or two. If he doesn't step up onto the perch himself then position it right above his feet and touch his belly very gently with it, this usually gets them to step up onto the perch. As soon as he steps up onto the perch (or your finger, any time he does something good really) tell him what a good bird he is and then slowly move him towards his cage. He'll most likely jump off and onto his cage when he's close enough, that's OK. As soon as he gets into/onto his cage again tell him he's a good bird and give him a treat. From that point forward, until he will step up onto your finger, use the perch to take him back to his cage or anywhere else. Him stepping up onto the perch you're holding and letting you move him is a step towards you earning his trust and getting him to step up onto your finger.

Eventually, when you're getting your hand close enough to him inside his cage that he is able to eat out of your hand, this is where I use a millet spray and have it sticking out of my hand towards him. When he eats from the millet spray tell him what a good boy he is. Let him eat as much as he wants and from that point forward always have millet in your hand when you start a session. Once he is eating the millet spray sticking out of your hand, you're going to try to get him to come closer to your hand by sticking less of the millet out and making him come towards your hand. The idea being that eventually he will step onto your hand to eat the millet. They usually put one foot up onto your hand and grab some millet then quickly step down, make sure to constantly praise him for this. The idea here is obviously to eventually get him to simply step up onto your finger while inside his cage (he may start off only doing this for a second or two), and eventually getting him to allow you to move him outside of his cage while he's on your finger. At that point you should be able to get him to step up onto your finger no matter where he's at. When your hand gets close enough you position your index finger just like you do the perch, just above his feet and lightly touching his belly.

Realize that as already stated this may take months to years. In real time, you'll most likely be doing 30 minute training sessions with your hand just sitting inside his cage while you talk and read to him for months, advancing your hand closer to him by the inch every week. This is pretty typical for a wild bird, or a bird that has been abused or experienced trauma.

The good news is he's only 7 months old! He's still very, very trainable and tameable, but you have to commit from day one and not skip even a day of training. Exposure to what scares them is the key (though I hate the "grab the bird and force it to be held" method, that's even more traumatic for them).

There are a million methods out there, I just know that I've never not had a bird become hand-tame using this method, though I have had challenges, lol.

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[SilverSage]

I have to respectfully re-state that as an IRN breeder/hand raiser/owner, clipping an IRN often has an extremely negative impact on taming. It can be helpful with many other species, but remember IRNs are very... weird. I've seen them go from "half tame and making progress" all the way back to square one, throwing themselves against the cage bars when you arrive because of a clip. It's about their minds, and the safety they feel because of the perceived ability to escape. I have tons of respect for EllenD and often agree with what she has to say, but in this case I have to disagree based on my own experience, the experiences of my friends, customers, and mentors. IRNs don't respond the same as other birds.


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[Dinosrawr]

I have to respectfully re-state that as an IRN breeder/hand raiser/owner, clipping an IRN often has an extremely negative impact on taming. It can be helpful with many other species, but remember IRNs are very... weird. I've seen them go from "half tame and making progress" all the way back to square one, throwing themselves against the cage bars when you arrive because of a clip. It's about their minds, and the safety they feel because of the perceived ability to escape. I have tons of respect for EllenD and often agree with what she has to say, but in this case I have to disagree based on my own experience, the experiences of my friends, customers, and mentors. IRNs don't respond the same as other birds.


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This is hugely important to keep in mind. I know personally my IRN would become aggressive and would more than likely bite if he were to be clipped. Every time I open the cage, he zooms out and does laps around the room. He LOVES flying, and I think for such intellectually active birds the physical exercise mitigates any potential mental or emotional stresses.

I've had Shiko for nearly 3 years now (his birthday is coming up next week!), and I have yet to be bitten because he can fly away when he feels like the interaction is too much. Feeling like you can remove yourself from a situation often leads to better outcomes than feeling corned and having to fight your way out of it. And Ringnecks are well known for using their beaks to get away.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Guys! I have some news
I took Pablo to the vet yesterday. She told me he was a bit fat (I just thought he was extra fluffy)... She asked me how I attempt to train him and I told her. Then she asked me what he eats. And I told her that he has all kinds of fresh veggies and fruit and seeds every day. And she told me "1) That's why he's fat and 2) That's why you can't train him because why would he risk coming to you where there is possible danger when he has all he needs in the cage?". She also told me to switch out his primary diet with pellets and to use his favorite food (seeds/fruit) only for rewards for training. I felt so stupid because this simple advice made so much sense. That's what I was doing wrong. So I changed that today, and of course he doesn't really like the pellets, but guys...! He takes food now finally through the cage bars from my hand!!! He even nibbled on my fingers gently a few times! I now have hope that I will be able to tame him eventually. I have to admit, as I saw his head slowly move towards my fingers, I already started to cry some happy tears... Also, apart from being a bit on the heavy side, Pablo is completely healthy I will continue now according to the advice the vet and SilverSage have given me and I hope we will make even more progress! I feel so happy right now!

YIPPEEE!!!

I have been following your thread..See! In just a day or two you have come 100 miles closer to your IRN in trusting you!

There is always " light at the end of the tunnel" and now you can see it.
Like your vet mentioned,why should Pablo come to YOU,when he has everything he wants/needs in the safe haven of his house?

A month from now,you will be posting about a totally different birdie

Oh...and we NEED pictures!!
Do NOT give up,or give IN! I can tell you have the determination and patients that is sometimes required with certain birds. AWESOME job...keep it up..and keep posting!!!


Jim