Problematic and scared young IRN

[pinguino]

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, and I am really hoping I can get some advice from you guys, because I am at my wits end…. I have to apologize up front, because this is going to be a long post, but if anyone has the time, please read.

A few months back, I was gifted a baby IRN from a loved one who got him from a breeder. Very quickly I figured out this breeder was lying when he said that he was hand tamed, parent fed and hand fed. Supposedly he is now around 7 months old. I don’t know under which circumstances he was raised really. I have had him now for about 3 months. I was also told that it is a male, however I am not aware of any DNA testing that was done to confirm that, and he is still too young for any ring to show up. He still has his flight feathers. I also very soon noticed he is missing one of his little “toe nails”… It doesn’t look like he came into the world with it missing… So that is the intro about my baby Pablo.

I have read so many forum posts here and on other sites on the internet, about advice how to tame your IRN. Watched so many videos. However, no matter what I have tried, he is still so wild and scared. I am not a fan of these techniques where you force your pet bird to anything (such as grabbing him in your hands and holding him until he learns that you will not harm him). I have tried feeding him through the cage bars, but he just steps away, even with his favorite foods. He gets all worked up and tries to “fly away” when I change his food/water. I have also tried the technique where I attempt to approach the cage, but then step back a bit once I see that he is ready to jump away, and then slowly attempt to approach again, etc., until he lets me come all the way. Most of the time, this also doesn’t work… He is very afraid of hands (even with thin gloves), or any objects that I might hold in my hand. The closest I can come to him is just with my face, when he is out chilling on the top of his cage all fluffed up, yet I still can’t come all the way to him. I never yell at him or speak in a loud voice, really doing my best to either engage him to interact or calm him down with whispers (he just recently said his first word btw, “hello” ).

He has the radio on all the time that I am at Uni. He gets plenty of time out of the cage every day, however he only flies to the highest point in the house and mostly chills there until he goes back in his house to eat/drink or sleep. He doesn’t seem to have any curiosity to investigate his surroundings and toys and nibble on stuff, or fly on his perches and play spots that I have set up for him around the apartment.

He has always been a screamer but the past week, he has started to scream most of the day, even when he is out, and I have also attempted to somehow teach him to not scream so much, because now it’s at the point where my head is starting to hurt and I can’t get much sleep. I have tried to ignore him (not even looking) when he screams, but he doesn’t stop. I have tried covering the cage until he is quiet and then when he starts chirping, I uncover him and praise him and talk/interact with him. But this also has not yet helped… He seems to enjoy interacting with me when I am a few metres away, but not when I come up closer. He doesn’t step up, and that part of the training has also failed miserably, as he only flies away…

I try to let him get about 10 hours of sleep each night, and he has plenty of toys and perches/ropes inside his cage (which is almost as big as I am). He has the radio on all the time that I am at Uni. He jumps around his cage and trains different sounds at some parts of the day, and he is not plucking his feathers so I am guessing he is neither unhappy nor bored. He seems quite content. He is a healthy little baby and he does truly live like a prince, however in these past 3 months, he hasn’t been very cooperative in wanting to socialize or train or bond with me. I am really doing my best to try to figure out what he wants, how he feels and to bond but he is just not interested… I don’t know if he experienced any type of trauma at the breeder’s, before he came to me. I have adapted my home to his needs (or at least what I think would be his needs). I am getting really sad and frustrated and I know we can’t go on like this, but I really, really, REALLY don’t want to give him up. Even though he doesn’t really love me right now, I am really invested and attached to him already and I want to keep him. I just wants us to be buddies. I have had birds many times in my life, and have managed to tame all of them completly. But this is my first IRN. I know they can be wild and scared and loud and stubborn… And I have a lot of patience and am willing to do anything. But I don’t know what I am doing wrong, so if you guys please have any advice for me, or any words of comfort, I would be so grateful to you. There are no bird trainers in my area, so I basically have to do this on my own. Is this even reversible?

Once again, I apologize for the long post… And Thank you in advance.

 

[itzjbean]

Hello and welcome to the forums! You have come to the right place for help. There are lots of IRN owners here, and owners who have had to start from scratch when it comes to taming a seemingly-wild bird.

The good news is, it is possible to tame him. The bad news is, it may take a while longer, as it seems you have not earned his trust yet. Because he may have been parent-raised, (the flying away, not being able to handle him) it is clear he has not had a lot of human interaction, or maybe was handled incorrectly in the past, and has developed a fear of people. With that being said, you are on the right track here. The problem is, you may be working too fast for him, and therefore you need to back up and go at his pace. He's afraid of being approached and hands, so start there first.

Start by getting him comfortable with your presence first. If he has his own room, place a chair in the doorway, so he is not agitated. Talk to him softly, sing, read a book out loud. Repeat this for several days, until you can move the chair closer to him a foot first, wait a couple days, then another. You have to work at HIS pace, here. If he starts to get agitated at your approach, sit down where you are and wait until he calms down. Eventually (it may take days, weeks, mind you) you should be able to sit comfortable NEXT to his cage without agitating him.

The next step is then to get him comfortable with your hands. Now that he is (presumably) comfortable with your presence, that is the time to start offering him treats through the bars. Keep talking softly to him, coo, sing, read, let him know your voice and your intentions. Eventually you should be able to reach inside his cage and offer him a treat without him getting spooked.

It's all about working at HIS level. I hope this helps, and maybe others will have advice for you as well. Don't give up, there is a wonderful companion in there!!!

 

[SilverSage]

Welcome!

There is virtually no GOOD info out there on taming IRNs because most of it is generalized parrot taming info, and IRNs are extremely unique and their brains don't work the same way.

Let me start with the bad news; some IRNs seem to have a genetic quirk that really complicates things. Some of them will never be tame no matter what you do. This is what leaf people for decades to say that they don't make good pets and are only suitable for an aviary; it's true of some of them.

For example, this year I hand raised 7 IRNs. 5 of them are the sweetest, snuggliest, happiest, bravest birds imaginable. Two of them were completely wild the day they weaned. What's the difference? Genetics. The "untamable" ones are different all along. You can tell within a few days of starting to hand feed them if you know what you are looking for. These birds need to live in an aviary setting.

That is not to say for sure that your bird is one of these, but even if he is genetically able to be an amazing pet, the normal parrot taming info isn't going to work with him, and the problem hinges on something you have already mentioned; fear of hands.

I don't know what it is about IRNs but they have a PARTICULARLY strong fear of fingers. The solution is to take your fingers out of the equation as much as possible. When you have to use your hands around him, try to keep all your fingers together so your hand is solid. Also move slowly so the bird isn't startled. Never put your hands closer to him than you have to until much later.

Establish a way to give treats without fingers. Get a metal dish (they make the best sound and that's important) and only use it for his FAVORITE treat. A few times a day, make sure he is looking, and drop the treat loudly into the dish, and walk away. All you are establishing at that point is that the treat is only found in the dish, and that that certain sound means a treat is ready for eating. Once he has a firm grasp of this, begin to move the dish around to different places so he has to search it out. Once he is used to finding his dish, you can begin to move it close to you. Expect this process to take weeks if not months. Gradually move the dish closer and closer to you, all the while ignoring him completely. Eventually he will become more and more comfortable with the rest of your body, and eventually ON HIS OWN he may lose the fear of your hands. Once he gets comfortable crawling on you, landing on you, etc, you can try offering treats from between the knuckles of your closed fist, then a plank hand, etc.


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[itzjbean]

Great advice from SilverSage above. I had no idea IRN were like that even when they were hand-fed. Great insight!

 

[pinguino]

Itzjbean and SilverSage, Thank You so, so much for your replies! Just knowing that somebody took the time to hear me out already made me feel better. Thank you both for being supportive!

@itzjbean: Im keeping him in the living room, and since I got him, I spend nearly my entire days there with him and talk to him, sing, etc. He is for sure more comfortable with my presence now than in the beginning when I got him (back then I couldn’t even sit close to him without him getting anxious). Now I spend most of my time in the living room while I am at home, a few meters away from him and that’s how we interact. If I eat, he goes down to his dish and eats as well. I can even sit on a chair next to the cage and talk to him calmly, even though sometimes he just slowly steppes a bit further away, but not always. And I can come really close with my face when he is out and chilling on the top of the cage (as long as he can’t see any hands). Assuming we had kind of hit the stage where he was used to my presence, I tried offering treats but he always steps away. He doesn’t always fly away now, just calmly walks as far away as he possibly can… but you are right, I am probably still moving too quickly for him…

@SilverSage: It is a bit disheartening to hear that some birds just simply won’t ever be tame, no matter how much you try… I’m dreading the thought of my Pablo being one of those — because, even though it’s “only” been 3 months, I already cannot imagine my days without him. I would really hate to give him up. I don’t even think there are any real aviaries where I live which he could be re-homed to in case things don’t work out… I will start working with him from tomorrow, according to the advice you have given me.

Some questions I have for you two (and anyone else here): I have been told by some people that it might be easier to work with him if I get his flight feathers a bit trimmed, so he doesn’t go as high up where I can’t interact with him. I was assured that these feathers would grow back to their normal length after about 2-3 months. I wouldn’t wanna take his flying away, but if it would make it easier to manage him for a while, it might be a good idea. However, I wouldn’t dare to do it myself — I would take him to an avian vet. But the issue then is how to transfer him to his transport carrier, without force (e.g. gently grabbing him in my hand and transferring him)? My friend, who is a vet, told me they would probably have to sedate him to manage him at the clinic…

And another thing; any advice on the screaming? He has days/periods when he is worse. I can’t pin the reason why he does this so much sometimes (like this past week). There are no changes around him that would set it off. Nothing he can warn me about (e.g. something happening outside which he can see through the window). He gets fresh fruits, veg, seeds and water every morning — so it’s not like he is missing anything and being mad… He also has days where he is chirping/singing and just making up new sounds, with a lot less screaming. And then sometimes (like now) he is just going at it non stop…

Would it be better to train him with one issue at a time (e.g. fear of hands), before trying to manage other things (screaming, treats), or could I do it all here and there throughout the day/s?

 

[pinguino]

I replied, but didn't do it in this "quick-reply" way so not sure you've seen it. I apologize. Still learning how this forum works

 

[SilverSage]

Ok, first of all I HATE IT when people advise clipping in order to bond. It might make it easier for the human but it is a form of force like you were talking about before; it just prevents your bird from escaping. Also in my experience (to give you an idea, I currently share my life with 19 IRNs) ringies tend not to respond well to clipping, ESPECIALLY wild ringies. The only reason I would suggest it in your case would be if you couldn't ever get him back in his cage, and that doesn't seem like the problem.

Also, you don't have to give him up. Even if he is never "tame," if you are able to give him out of the cage time, proper toys, diet, etc, there is no reason not to keep him.

As for the screaming, I highly recommend a trip to the vet. Screaming behaviors are often one of the first signs of bacterial or parasitic infections. Go get a gram stain and parasite screening. If possible, lure him into a travel cage to avoid having to catch him yourself, otherwise hide your hands in a towel so they aren't seen as grabbing him. This is vital.

Once medical reasons are ruled out, look into "the bird sitter DVD" which I think you can get on Amazon. My birdies love it. Birds on tv are way better for them than the radio.

Focus on foraging and shredding toys. Also keep in mind that depending on where you live, breeding season is either here or close at hand, and that can encourage screaming.


Oh, and IRNs are annual molters, not continuous molters. If you clip him it may be up to a year before he gets his flights back.


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[pinguino]

I replied but not in "quick-reply" so I feel a bit dumb xD Still learning how this all works

 

[pinguino]

The way he goes back into his cage is the following: He usually chills on the ceiling stuff somewhere. And when it gets late, I go somewhere underneath him and just wave my hands a bit. They're not anywhere close to him, but he still flies away and sits on his cage. Then he goes in if he is hungry and I eventually close him up for the night. He will also fly back to the cage by himself if he is hungry, without me waving at him. If he is not hungry, he won't go in, and this happens on some days. I don't wanna force him inside, so I just turn off the lights, secure the room, and let him sleep on the perch on top of his cage... It feels like all of this is also the greatest way to handle things...

I am planning to take him to the vet tomorrow. It's currently winter where I live, so I guess not breeding season? He is still very young. Do they still have a special type of behaviour during breeding season, even if they are babies?

 

[SilverSage]

Keep in mind he is young, but isn't a baby. Think about human kids; some girls begin to get their cycle as early as 8 or 9 years old. Not ready to have babies, but old enough to get messed up by hormones.

If you start feeding meals instead of free feeding that will also help with bedtime if he is actually used to being hungry and getting a yummy meal in the evenings.


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[pinguino]

So in this case, it's better to not proceed with the wing clipping at this point? I really wouldn't want him to not be able to fly around for up to a year... Sometimes when he's out, he just flies up a bit in the air, from the perch on the top of the cage and then lands back on it and does that like 508 times in a row while chirping and singing. He seems so happy when he does that, I wouldn't want to take that away from him.

Any advice on how to approach him when trying to give/change food and water without him getting anxious?

 

[SilverSage]

I wouldn't clip him if you can avoid it. The ability to fly is comforting to him; he knows he can escape if you try to eat him. It is extra important to IRNs.

I suggest getting a cage that has food and water doors so you don't have to put your hands inside his cage. Failing that, get dishes that can attach to the door itself so you can open the door, change the food and water on the outside of the door, and then close it, again without reaching inside the cage. Even tame IRNs sometimes panic when "trapped" in a cage with hands even if they have no problem with hands outside the cage. I have one bird that, if he is loose in the room will climb all over me, fly to me, hang off my hair to preen my eyebrows, land on food and water dishes that I'm carrying, give me kisses in my ear, tell me what a pretty boy I am, etc. but if I go to put him food dish into his cage with him in it he will panic and scream and flail as if I am going to eat him alive. IRNs are amazing, but they are also crazy little nut jobs. You have to treat them like their own brand of mental patient because in a lot of ways they are nothing like the other species.


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[pinguino]

His cage has food and water doors, but he still jumps away when I very slowly open them and try to put the dishes there. Even if he is at the opposite side of the cage, he jumps up and holds on to the bars... He also likes to eat his fruits/veggies off of this stick thing that you can attach inside the cage, but the problem is I have to reach inside the cage to do it. I put it right inside the other little "dish-door". Another problem is the water. He doesn't want to drink when it is placed that low, where the doors for the dishes are placed. He has no problem eating there, but it seems he prefers to drink higher up. So again I have to reach inside to put another, detachable, water dish higher up. I put everything where he prefers it, yet there is always anxiety when I need to change the stuff...

I like how you say that they are like mental patients - it's funny xD hahaha but it sounds about right. Pablo is not a bird, he is a riddle

 

[adz1984]

I've found my Alexandrine extremely hard to tame also in the 3months i've had her and I believe they are similar to ringnecks, the problem seems to be that mine is really independant and quite happy to be by herself, I'm willing to bet that if I raised a conure in the exact same way it would be preening my toe nails and falling asleep in my hand lol.
I posted a video earlier today of how she acts when I approach her in the cage, she's only really aggresssive in the cage and I can handle her away from the cage but It just feels like she tolerates me and not loves me if that sense.

Have you tried interacting with her away from the cage's sight? that might force her to bond with you

 

[SilverSage]

Could you post a picture of your cage? I might be able to make better suggestions if I had a better idea of the setup.

Since Alexandrines and Indian Ringnecks are related, it wouldn't surprise me to find similar quirks and yeah; they are NOT conures lol. I breed both. People often message me wanting "a Ringneck or a green cheek" which is a HUGE sign that they have no idea what they want lol.

It's true that many people insist on taking a bird away from the cage to get them to bond with their humans, but it is exactly as it was worded; "force." Forcing doesn't lead to trust. The reason frightened birds try to get back to their cages has to do with trust and security. Removing that safety net of the cage doesn't make them trust you, it just gives them nowhere "safe" to turn. When you go back in the room with the cage the problem will be even worse.


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[GaleriaGila]

I am an apologist for difficult birds, and the Rickeybird (and myself).
Some of this may apply, much may not.

Even after all these years, I sometimes find myself putting myself or my bird down... stuff like...
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS OR THAT.
WHY CAN'T HE BE SWEET AND NICE, LIKE A PUPPY?
PEOPLE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY I PUT UP WITH THIS.
Stuff like that.
But this is a parrot... barely a generation out of the wild.
I do all the right things, as much/well as I can, but in the end, I just LOVE my bird,
Some parrots are SO SWEET, some are NOT. I'm HAPPY and a bit JEALOUS of those successes.
I have lessened my psychological and physical wounds over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered. I admit... as to why have I not (and why am I unable/unwilling) to train the Rb to do anything that he doesn't want to do?
Example... if I have a treat, and he sees it and wants it, I HAVE to give it too him. I simply cannot/will not NOT give him what he wants. No training there!
Consequently, I have a Tazmanian Devil on my hands. I love him. I have no complaints, really. He's HIMSELF. And I'm MYSELF. And the result... check my Signature for videos. etc., if you like.
Over the years, I have been very embarassed/downhearted/sad about having a pet that was so... out of my control.
The most guiltifying thing is that, if I die before he does, what kind of maniac am I passing along, and what likelihood of success does he have? I'm still struggling weith that one.
But finally, I've accepted that I have an amazing half-wild being who loves me and perches on my hand and speaks to me! It's magic enough.

I'm so glad you're here.

 

[adz1984]

How do you suggest to bond with a cage territorial bird then? From what I've read there doesn't seem to be a fix.. I have sat outside her cage plenty and trying working with her in there slowly.. with little to no success.

I'm also pretty sure my bird is not scared of me, She acts completely different to strangers approaching her cage, for example she would move away or go to a corner not lunge like she doe's with me. she will climb all over me, give kisse's, allow petting and if she happens to be outside just before bedtime she will do whatever it takes to get onto my arm so I can take her back to the cage but like a said it seem's like she just tolerates not enjoys me and i'm beginning to think she never will, why, that I will never know..
Doe's it sound like I have an "untamable" bird? that you mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[pinguino]

Hello!
When he is out, he doesn't seem to want to leave the livingroom space, so the cage is always in sight. And while I am "supervising" him every time he is out, therr has been little opportunities to interact with him in any other place than in the livingroom. :/

 

[pinguino]

Is there any way to post a picture here without having to upload it somewhere first and then post the link?

Btw, I have tried putting on bird sounds for him, but he seems to scream a lot more always when I do that. It seems he is calmer with music on... I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that he was basically raised by his parents, and then when they were sold, he was left all alone until he came to me. So I dont know if he maybe has an aversion to other birds since he is not used to them. Could that be possible?

 

[SilverSage]

Adz1984; no, you do not have an untamable bird. But try to approach your time not thinking "how can I get my bird to do what I want" but "what can I do that my bird will like?"

Is he actually territorial? Like does she attack you when you go near her cage? Not just lunging, but actual attacking?

Have you done any target training with her?

As to bird sounds no I doubt he has an aversion to other birds, more likely he is trying to find them. He really should see a vet though to rule out a medical cause.




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