Parrot safety rule

[SammyAndyAlex]

I think that a new rule on posting pictures of parrots in unsafe environments, such as being outside unharnessed should be banned.

Pictures of parrots and dogs together are banned. Posting pictures of parrots in situations which sadly often ends in the bird either getting lost or killed should therefore be banned, IMO.

 

[chris-md]

While well intentioned, I think a blanket “unsafe situation” rule may not be possible, as what is safe for one may not be safe for others.

You cite being outside unharnessed. what you are overlooking are situations like my boy Parker who is literally incapable of flight for 9 months out of the year. He’s perfectly safe as long as I’m holding him on my hand so I’m controlling him (as opposed to sitting on my shoulder or fore arm). And this is just to keep him from crashing unsafely to the ground in a panic flight or keep dogs away from him - we dog sit for a side business.

Or free flighted parrots who, by virtue of proper training on both the human and birds part, Are actually pretty safe.

We have had at times applied a certain standard. For example, I can think of one situation where a video of people smoking at a table holding their birds was taken down. But rather than have a clear rule, those are more ad hoc situations discussed among moderators prior to actually removing.

 

[Ellie777Australia]

Hi SammyAndy,

I really appreciate the expression of your concern for fid safety. My Eclectus only go outside in their aviator harness and I have an extension lead for 'controlled' flight. Much like yours.

In agreement with chris-md, a 'blanket exclusion' would not suffice in this situation IMHO. Some birds are like Parker and incapable of free flight, some are clipped enough to limit distance and elevated flight, and some fids have GPS trackers attached etc. Far too many variables for a 'blanket exclusion' I would think.

Also, I would study the number of birds who have been lost and the circumstances surrounding the event. You may find that most fids accidentally escaped by human error, open house doors, open cage doors outside whilst moving the fid etc.

Once again, thank you for expressing your concern for our fids.

 

[RobynnLynne]

Pictures of parrots and dogs together are banned. Posting pictures of parrots in situations which sadly often ends in the bird either getting lost or killed should therefore be banned, IMO.

I feel the passion in your words and agree 100% that our feathered friends need to be protected from all threat and harm.

As a responsible pet owner I will do that for any animal.

My service dog, Taffee performs many duties for me yet is comfortable around small animals and birds. She was trained in a pet shop.

That doesn't mean I am going to put a helpless Mr. Sunshine in a potentially dangerous situation with her; anymore than I would put her in a potentially dangerous situation with a pitbull. You have to know the animals.


Each situation is completely different. Some people don't have common sense and should not be allowed to own pets. But not all pet owners are reckless.

I did take down pictures of Taffee with the baby birds.

 

[Scott]

While well intentioned, I think a blanket “unsafe situation” rule may not be possible, as what is safe for one may not be safe for others.

You cite being outside unharnessed. what you are overlooking are situations like my boy Parker who is literally incapable of flight for 9 months out of the year. He’s perfectly safe as long as I’m holding him on my hand so I’m controlling him (as opposed to sitting on my shoulder or fore arm). And this is just to map him from crashing unsafely to the ground in a panic or keep dogs away from him - we dog sit for a side business.

Or free flighted parrots who, by virtue of proper training on both the human and birds part, Are actually pretty safe.

We have had at times applied a certain standard. For example, I can think of one situation where a video of people smoking at a table holding their birds was taken down. But rather than have a clear rule, those are more ad hoc situations discussed among moderators prior to actually removing.

^^^^ This ^^^^ Thanks Chris!!

We have clearly defined guidelines for many situations but it is not possible to legislate every contingency. Beyond good judgement adjusted for experience, we rely on members reporting posts and moderators sifting through the forums.

 

[Scott]

I think that a new rule on posting pictures of parrots in unsafe environments, such as being outside unharnessed should be banned.

Pictures of parrots and dogs together are banned. Posting pictures of parrots in situations which sadly often ends in the bird either getting lost or killed should therefore be banned, IMO.

Thanks for the suggestion, your heart is in the right place!

 

[SammyAndyAlex]

What I'm saying is that if there is a rule banning dogs and parrots being pictured together and posted here, regardless of circumstance, why would we/you allow pictures of parrots unleashed outside?

Yes, the bird might be incapable of flight (to your knowledge or until recently) but the person seeing the picture doesn't know that.

If I cannot post pictures of my service dog and Sammy together, both of whom have been extensively trained, why should someone be allowed to post pictures of parrots being outside without the correct safety precautions?

 

[SammyAndyAlex]

Hi SammyAndy,

I really appreciate the expression of your concern for fid safety. My Eclectus only go outside in their aviator harness and I have an extension lead for 'controlled' flight. Much like yours.

In agreement with chris-md, a 'blanket exclusion' would not suffice in this situation IMHO. Some birds are like Parker and incapable of free flight, some are clipped enough to limit distance and elevated flight, and some fids have GPS trackers attached etc. Far too many variables for a 'blanket exclusion' I would think.

Also, I would study the number of birds who have been lost and the circumstances surrounding the event. You may find that most fids accidentally escaped by human error, open house doors, open cage doors outside whilst moving the fid etc.

Once again, thank you for expressing your concern for our fids.

But there is a blanket statement on pictures of birds with predatory animals. Even if they are trained to, like, not kill each other.

I condone the aforementioned rule, but it simply doesn't make sense to me to be inconsistent.

 

[wrench13]

Thats us - consistiently inconsistient. Won't alllow pics of my parrot with a pack of cigarettes in it, but no problems with Freddy Kreuger in the background.

 

[Scott]

What I'm saying is that if there is a rule banning dogs and parrots being pictured together and posted here, regardless of circumstance, why would we/you allow pictures of parrots unleashed outside?

Yes, the bird might be incapable of flight (to your knowledge or until recently) but the person seeing the picture doesn't know that.

If I cannot post pictures of my service dog and Sammy together, both of whom have been extensively trained, why should someone be allowed to post pictures of parrots being outside without the correct safety precautions?

Please note the sub forum "Free Flight" has archives chronicling parronts making judgments on behalf of their fids. We have extensively debated the wisdom, and reasoned discussion is superior to censorship.
Free Flight - Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community

Frankly I abhor the practice, liven in a raptor-rich environment, and would never place my flock in jeopardy. The role of ParrotForums is to provide an umbrella of guidance with narrowly defined limits. We collectively excel at identifying outlier issues, debate, and repair as needed.

 

[chris-md]

What I'm saying is that if there is a rule banning dogs and parrots being pictured together and posted here, regardless of circumstance, why would we/you allow pictures of parrots unleashed outside?

Yes, the bird might be incapable of flight (to your knowledge or until recently) but the person seeing the picture doesn't know that.

If I cannot post pictures of my service dog and Sammy together, both of whom have been extensively trained, why should someone be allowed to post pictures of parrots being outside without the correct safety precautions?

Parker is a barberer who lacks primary feathers, secondary feathers, and tail feathers during these 9 months, during which time his recall flight training we do when he IS flighted has to come to a halt.

It’s safe to say he is flightless.

And on the occasion I do post photos of him outside, moderators here can attest that I almost always add a caution explaining why I can do it and why people shouldn’t imitate this due to Parker’s special circumstances.

so yes, they know it’s safe right off the bat for Parker’s circumstances.

You’re asking to ban images that “may appear” unsafe, regardless of if it actually is. You can’t do that. “May appear” is not concrete enough to warrant censorship. Perspective on safety is irrelevant.

Dogs are never safe. Even the best trained dogs can have one moment of weakness where prey drive overtakes the. This forum is riddled with those exact stories.

Context is everything.

 

[SammyAndyAlex]

What I'm saying is that if there is a rule banning dogs and parrots being pictured together and posted here, regardless of circumstance, why would we/you allow pictures of parrots unleashed outside?

Yes, the bird might be incapable of flight (to your knowledge or until recently) but the person seeing the picture doesn't know that.

If I cannot post pictures of my service dog and Sammy together, both of whom have been extensively trained, why should someone be allowed to post pictures of parrots being outside without the correct safety precautions?

Parker is a barberer who lacks primary feathers, secondary feathers, and tail feathers during these 9 months, during which time his recall flight training we do when he IS flighted has to come to a halt.

It’s safe to say he is flightless.

And on the occasion I do post photos of him outside, moderators here can attest that I almost always add a caution explaining why I can do it and why people shouldn’t imitate this due to Parker’s special circumstances.

so yes, they know it’s safe right off the bat for Parker’s circumstances.

You’re asking to ban images that “may appear” unsafe, regardless of if it actually is. You can’t do that. “May appear” is not concrete enough to warrant censorship. Perspective on safety is irrelevant.

Dogs are never safe. Even the best trained dogs can have one moment of weakness where prey drive overtakes the. This forum is riddled with those exact stories.

Context is everything.

I wasn't attacking you or Parker, if it came off that way I apologize.

(But on the topic of censorship, free speech actually doesnt apply to privately run forums or companies. It just means that the government cant ban you from expressing your opinion. So, this forum could ban or censor anything they want for literally any reason)

But by your reasoning of dogs never being safe, free flying parrots is never safe either, if we're being consistent.

I suppose what is making me frustrated is the inconsistency. This isnt an attack on anyone. I am just stating how I feel.

 

[chris-md]

I didn’t take it as an attack, but your parenthetical aside questioning his flightlessness was unusual.

Everyone knows your heart is in the right place. But the suggestion is much vaguer and more ambiguous than you are realizing.

 

[Terry57]

First, I know your heart is in the right place with this, but it would be inconsistent to have a Free Flight Forum, yet ban pictures of birds outside without harnesses. There is not a forum for birds with prey animals so this is not an equal comparison.

This quote from Chris is exactly how we try to moderate:

You’re asking to ban images that “may appear” unsafe, regardless of if it actually is. You can’t do that. “May appear” is not concrete enough to warrant censorship. Perspective on safety is irrelevant.


It has nothing to do with whether free speech is allowed on the forum, but that we try to censor as little as possible while still maintaining order and a place where people can gain knowledge. People can respectfully tell someone they find a certain practice unsafe, and others can learn from that. Simply banning everything that someone disagrees with would result in a forum that has very little participation & keep people from learning from others with differing opinions on what they consider unsafe practices.
When something is obviously unsafe, such as smoking around a bird, or Teflon pans in a kitchen with a bird, we will take action. We believe birds with prey animals fall under this category, hence the official rule.
It always comes down to a Mod consensus on what crosses the line.
We always take into consideration the suggestions of the members, but with a Free Flight Forum this is not a suggestion we can put into place.

 

[SammyAndyAlex]

I didn’t take it as an attack, but your parenthetical aside questioning his flightlessness was unusual.

Everyone knows your heart is in the right place. But the suggestion is much vaguer and more ambiguous than you are realizing.

But I didn't question Parker's flightlessness. I made a statement that not all owners may not be aware of how well their bird can fly. It had literally nothing to do with Parker? You used him as an example, not me.

 

[Scott]

(But on the topic of censorship, free speech actually doesnt apply to privately run forums or companies. It just means that the government cant ban you from expressing your opinion. So, this forum could ban or censor anything they want for literally any reason)

But by your reasoning of dogs never being safe, free flying parrots is never safe either, if we're being consistent.

I suppose what is making me frustrated is the inconsistency. This isnt an attack on anyone. I am just stating how I feel.

Please know we all empathize with your position on behalf of parrots. Quite right, there is no right of free speech on this or other forums. Members are granted wide latitude and are overwhelmingly compliant. Your feelings, eloquently stated, are as valid as anyone's.

Limited free speech is by definition inconsistent. It would frankly be demeaning to list dozens of red line topics, and to be safe, itemize approved subjects. We rely on good judgment and a fallback of vigilant members and a moderator team.

 

[ParrotGenie]

Yes do agree a untrained parrot that not use to environment, like noises local wildlife is very dangerous that not on a leash. A well trained free flighted parrot is a whole different story. Baby my U2 been free flighted for now about a year and only once she was lost, but usually always have a tail GPS on her and can find her at any given time and she flock call me, so I can hear her and she comes right back. Now with that being said I do keep her on a harness when out in public like stores, or walks, for her and others safety.

It just not the same as pictures posted with birds next to what considered predators? Parrots are a lot smarted then you give them credit, they can change and know direction and even find shortcuts? I actually find it less dangerous then someone with a clipped not flight train birds. Those are the ones I hear stories all the time of them escaping and not coming back as no recall training and etc and yes even a clipped parrot can fly if windy outside. My first blue streaked lory Ruby was free flighted for 15 plus years and never lost her and she stay in good health to the very end and didn't use a harness back in the day as I do now.

I do agree birds sure be harness trained regardless if flight trained, or not. Plus a bird that flys regularly stay in better health and in better shape. A lot more to it, so not recommended for everyone to do.

 

[SailBoat]

At some point, the reality of agreeing to disagree comes into play.
Without that agreement, we are left spinning in circles, which rarely ends well. Knowing when to step back defines the Art of Peace.

 

[clark_conure]

Honestly I take my birds out unharnessed all the time. Their wings are clipped, I test their abilities often and even if they could gain altitude they are so imprinted I can't even go get a refill from a minifridge in the same room without them freaking out and flock calling or trying to get to me on the floor.

So, heart in the right place, but when I go to the local stores people love to see the parrots....

And getting them in a harness for a 15 minute two store shopping trip would take an hour between the two of them, and all they wanna do is chew on the harness...

Not that I take pics, I shared a video of them in the truck with me once.... but they are good birds...I don't need to limit or punish my good birds.