Panic Attacks

[CharlieHorse]

I'm hoping this isn't the norm for all caiques--

I found my little buddy Crayola dead in the bottom of his cage yesterday morning. He was already cold. At first I thought it was his life-long sinus issue or something, but it didn't really make sense. He was so healthy and happy when I put him in his cage the previous night-- He'd been flying and playing and snuggling and all the usual.

Then I realized what happened. He's always had panic attacks if you wake him suddenly. Bumping the cage, or once I made the mistake of shining a flashlight on him in his little sleeping nest. He'd dive down and flop around on the floor of the cage, digging to get under the newspaper. If I grabbed him he was inconsolable like someone in a real panic attack. It worried me and I took pains to not scare him like that... He was so tense that I thought he could have a heart attack.

Well. I took the car after dark but had a low battery. When I returned I parked close to the house so I could use my charger without an extension. I think the headlights came in the window and startled him, and this time he had the heart attack. I feel like this is a silly problem on his part, but I kick myself for not thinking about the headlights in the window. My Timneh Gray doesn't care much and Crayola was not in the direct beam so I never gave it much thought. But I'm sure thats what got him. He was almost 8.

Tomorrow I'm going to spend 1400 on another Caique. Please tell me they don't ALL do this panic attack thing! Its like having a time bomb with a random fuse. Scary! I just can't live without a Caique though.

 

[IndySE]

My condolences for your loss. I don't know a ton about caiques specifically (and I'm sure those folks will be here soon) but it is my understanding most birds can get "night frights". Some are more prone to it than others (i.e. cockatiels), but it is possible for all birds. However, unless your bird injured themselves in the middle of the nightfright (in which case you'd see blood), that shouldn't be enough to cause death unless there was another underlying issue.

I recommend waiting a little while for your next caique. You don't know for sure if it was a simple nightfright that killed your previous baby, and I think it would be prudent to take in the body to an avian vet to get an necropsy to make sure he didn't have anything contagious that could spread to another bird. Especially because you want to get a new feathered friend asap, any viruses or bacteria he may have had very likely won't die off before the new guy's arrival.

All the best.

 

[ChristaNL]

I am sorry for your loss.
No idea, this is the first I've heard of caiques and nightfrights/ panic atacks.


(omg, are they made out of gold where you live?)

 

[texsize]

I am sorry for your loss.
My Cockatiels scare easily and even though I leave a light on they still spook even in the day time.

I almost bought a Cacique. I thought the price was 140.00. I went to the shop and found out I read the decimal point wrong, it was 1400.00
I decided I did not need another bird just then LOL.

 

[noodles123]

So sorry as well...ugh...that is so hard.

I would "second" the notion that ruling out viruses etc would be safest for you and your birds...If you can visit the vet with your bird, they may be able to provide some insight as to the cause of death. Without a necroscopy, everything is supposition.

If it truly was a "panic attack" type of situation, these are generally called "night frights" and if you keep a light on in the room next to the bird who has issues with them, it can sometimes help prevent them from being as severe (no guarantees). Covering birds with night frights can also be an issue for the same reasons...

Again, I am so sorry for your loss...My advice would be to take some time to heal and think before jumping right in...for safety purposes, as well as your own mental health...Losing a bird has to be one of the worst things ever.

 

[Laurasea]

I'm sorry for your loss, so crushing. I agree with previous posters, most likely not death by night frights. Birds can almost always show absolutely zero symptoms before death. They don't ever have to be fluffed or not eating or change in stool they are almost always just found dead. This is a bird thing this is how birds have evolved. I myself lost my GCC who was eating playing and I gave love and sunuggles and treats. Went outside for an hour came back to a dead bird, died of respiratory infection. I'm sorry for your loss. Please take some time before anew bird. You can find hundreds of posts of people here who had a healthy bird then found it dead. Many people will come up with a rationalization to ease their mind like heart attack, stroke, hear forth unknown birth defect, it was just it's time and so on.....but that's not the case, it is usually an infection, vitamin deficiency, toxin in the environment, metal posioning, ingestion of an object that causes a blockage, ingested string or threads or fabric over time blocks crop, in a female egg binding...I am truly sorry for your loss but feel getting this information out to you and others reading this thread is important.

 

[Laurasea]

In re-read of your post you mentioned life long sinus infections, I'd say that was it. Why the infection? How was it diagnosed and treated in the past? Why was it always coming back? This is important information, I'm not trying to lay blame, and I'm not trying to be unfeeling. This infact is similar to my situation, my bird had an infection as a chick by improper hand feeding, that lead to a beak deformation abd scaring close one nostril, which I was aware if before purchasing, abd lead to life long intermittent sinus infections. And ultimately caused her sudden death, even though she had not lost weight or looking sick at all. So I have complete empathy for you I still feeling my loss too.

 

[CharlieHorse]

Well if its a contagious infection, there's the fact that I have a perfectly healthy Timneh Gray who lives next to his cage and often raids his cage, and he sat on her perches all day. She's doing great, and perhaps is enjoying being the only bird in the house now.

Still, of course it could have been his life-long sinus issue. I'm always going to feel bad for not having it looked at, even if it meant a day of driving. But I can't really have a necropsy done. I live 3 hours from a vet that can pull that off, and I'm afraid he's been buried already. That was VERY hard to do, let me tell you.

I have to say, these panic attacks were nothing to sneeze at. Holding him while he was having one, you'd understand the severity. It was like catching a wild animal that thought it was about to be eaten. I feared for his health when he'd have an attack-- Heart attacks were an actual fear once in a while. Also I can match up my startling headlights-in-the-window rather closely to when he must have died.

I kinda can't wait on the replacement though. The only breeder I know has 2 left and thats all until next year. I'm swapping his cage out just in case. I have a spare. I could always pick my bird and pay and have the breeder keep him for a week. Disinfecting the whole area.

 

[noodles123]

Well, you obviously will be the one to make the call and you are going through a lot. I would definitely be feeling a lot of things right now if I were you (just a lot to deal with). A bad enough "night fright" could cause severe injury and even death.

That having been said, I do just want to be honest with you and say that some of the more serious viral infections can be carried by birds asymptomatically while being contracted by others (their progression is very individualized and some birds never show symptoms- even as carriers/spreaders of said viruses). Viruses can remain active on surfaces for a long time (some for 6 months to a year), and feather dust can be a carrier, depending on the virus (as well as the more obvious modes of transmission, such as feces etc). Some birds can get infected and then take years to produce symptoms...while others can become ill within weeks. I would also get your Grey tested for things like ABV etc (just because you are planning to bring another bird into the home). The "sinus issue" is what concerns me most of all....Generally, there is an underlying reason for things like that...either a specific disease that impacted the sinuses OR an underlying illness that suppressed the immune system and made the sinuses more susceptible.

I am not saying your bird had a virus, but without testing etc, the health of your other bird is not necessarily the best proof.

I hope things get easier! I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I just wanted to share what I knew (in case you hadn't considered). Again, I hope you do not see this as rude or insensitive...I mean you and your birds the best!

 

[Laurasea]

Yes what Noodles said. Not to be insensitive at all. We are glad you joined but sorry for the circumstances! And we hope you stick around and share your experiences and ups and downs. Just because your grey appears healthy, well so did the the one who passed. Please spend the money abd Hassel and have a CAV check out your grey with blood work and fecal. If you can't wait to get a new wonderful caique. Then please don't use any of the old toys perches and any plastic feeding treat it water dishes. Clean every single bar if the old cage, clean everything everywhere. Keep your new bird in an isolated quarantine room and wash your hands and change your clothes between birds. Have new bird checked by a CAV as well at start and finish if quarantine. It sounds like you don't know the reason of past infection of sinuses in the caique? And yes the night scare could have pushed your bird over the edge if it was dealing with a health issue. But ultimately it was the health issue that lead to death. Some infections one bird can fight off and the other can't, or one is chronic and may succumb later. Vit A plays a big role in health and many birds aren't eating enough healthy pellets it enough veggies to get what they require. Can you tell us about your feeding habits? Please use extremely caution and quarantine with your new baby, just weaned babies are the most susceptible to viruses and infections. We are really glad you joined, and I know all our members feel your pain and have you and your birds best interest at heart.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I am so very sorry for your loss, so very sorry.

Yes, I'm throwing in with the cautious folks above. The only thing worse than one loss is another.

Do you have a wonderful avian vet to advise you? If you're looking for one...

Most of us swear by our avian vets in the event of health concerns. I don't know where you are, but here are some links. I only have USA info...
Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

Again, I am so very sorry. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[SilverSage]

Yikes!

As a breeder I would refuse to let anyone adopt one of my babies in this situation. As others have said, I’m not trying to be insensitive, but are you telling me your bird had a sinus issue FOR YEARS that you didn’t get checked out???????

Panic attacks don’t kill, speaking as someone who has them myself, what you are talking about sounds more like seizures, another thing that should have been checked by a vet...

And as has already been said, your grey may very well be on the brink of death without you knowing. There could be a toxin in the environment that just hasn’t managed to kill the larger bird yet, or a virus he isn’t showing symptoms of. Your grey needs to go to the vet! And if you can afford $1400 for a new bird plus new toys, you can afford a necropsy. And an Uber/bus/taxi etc to the vet if you don’t have your own transportation.

Please protect the bird you already have before endangering the life of another bird!


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[ChristaNL]

Why not do all of it at once:
(if you really cannot do without a caique)


Go see if the breeder has the bird that picks you as much as you like the bird.
(No parrot is alike in temperament, so you cannot just swap one for the other, they may both be "nah".)
*If* your new friend is there, make sure he/she get tested for *everything* before you bring that one home.
(Paying the breeder to keep if for 2 more weeks would be great)


Get your grey tested for anything and everything as well- testresults may take up to two weeks to arrive anyway.
(ask for an extra aspergillosis-test as well - they are not standard included afaik)


In the meantime, take some time to really grieve and clean, clean, clean.
And dont forget to hug your grey - he was next to a bird-friend that died, he is probably very upset as well.

 

[EllenD]

I totally agree that this could have been caused by absolutely anything, and honestly you have no idea whether or not your Grey has been effected by it or not, as they all hide any outward signs of illness for as long as they can, often for months...

What you need to remember here is that your bird could have died from a new infection, whether viral, bacterial, fungal, etc., doesn't matter, it could have been something totally unrelated to anything he had suffered from in the past, and it could be an infection that kills quickly and suddenly without treatment, and you have no way of knowing whether or not he had it for long, what the incubation period is, nor whether or not your current Grey also has the same thing.

I'm not saying this to be harsh to you, mean, or rude, but because it is your responsibility to make sure that your pets are not sick, and get them treated when they are, I'm sure you agree with this. And as such, instead of going out a day or two after your bird dies of an unknown cause and spending $1,400 on a new baby bird to replace him, you need to make the couple-hour-drive to the nearest Avian Vet with your Gray and have a complete Wellness-Exam done, including at least a Fecal Culture and a very basic, routine Blood-Work panel, as even just his CBC level will tell you whether or not he's suffering from an infection; this is the responsible thing to do, not going out and immediately buying a new baby bird, when you'll be potentially bringing it into a house with an active Avian Infection of some kind that is contagious floating around. Changing out the cage is not going to protect the new baby bird from any active infection that may be present, and it certainly isn't going to do any good for your current Gray. Again, I'm not trying to be rude or hypercritical here, but this is simply common sense and very basic pet responsibility and ownership practice.

What if you go out and bring home a new baby bird, and a few days later you wake up and find your Gray also dead on the floor of it's cage? This is very possible, and I'd hate to see that happen to you or anyone else, as then you're going to have to deal with the guilt of not only not getting your Gray medical help, but also for knowingly exposing a new baby Caique to the same, deadly infection...I mean, this is a no-brainer, especially since we all know how well all birds hide all outward signs of illness and pain for as long as they can, and since you have no idea if this was a new infection of some type...you cannot assume that it was "his longtime sinus issue" that was never diagnosed, or if it was a night-fright, which is very unlikely. Do the responsible, fair thing for not only your Gray, but for any new bird you bring home in the near-future...

I mean, put a deposit down on a baby Caique, explain the situation to the breeder, and have them hold it for you until after you get your Gray checked. Any reputable and responsible breeder would much rather take a deposit and hold their baby until after getting a culture and basic blood-work done on an existing bird in the house right after the sudden and unexpected, unexplained death of another bird in the house just days prior...

 

[CharlieHorse]

I cant believe I forgot-- I had figured out his sinus issue, but I seem to be getting old and forgot it. As a baby, his first interaction with Mozam Beak was to attack her. She bit his beak at the top and cracked it a bit and there were a few drops of blood. It healed and went away promptly, but I'm sure thats what messed up his sinus. Never any sign of infection-- It was more of an alergy type thing, or my research showed it was the kind of thing birds do when the air is to dry (its very dry here in central UT).

I took his cage apart and scrubbed every inch and disinfected it. Even the other bird's stuff. Threw away all the perches and toys.

New bird is home and being kept in quarantine for a month just to be safe. Frankly, more for Mozy's sake than the baby's since he's the one that came from a breeder with a lot of other birds. No idea on gender. They had 2, an outgoing one and a little more people-oriented one. I prefer the outgoing one but due to Mozy not enjoying Caique torments, (And the outgoing one loved to tease other birds) I went with the mellow one. Since this is the replacement for Crayola, I think I'll name this one Crayon. He/she will sit for 30 minutes on my shoulder watching me work on day 1. I'm kinda impressed. Babies change though so we'll see how it turns out. For now, super sweet, calmer without the sibling to play with, though perhaps a bit pinchy with that sharp baby beak. I'd raised crayola from a bald critter, but this one is feathered already. Same breeder, different parents. Double the price 8 years later... ouch.

I guess I feel better that Crayola died suddenly, even if it was for a stupid reason, than if he'd escaped or gotten sat on or the dog got him or he flew into the toilet or some other thing that I could try to blame myself for. Night terrors -- So unpredictable. My take-away is this: Had I known he could really die from something like a light in the window, I don't know if there is a plan that really works to keep him safe. A cage cover would kill him if you pulled it off while he was asleep. Still you could bump the cage. Putting a sleeping cage in a solitary room still-- If you come in and turn on the light.... I just don't see a flawless plan. Perhaps if I had been there to hold him he'd have calmed down this time. Perhaps not. And I cant guarantee I'd be there the next time. I'd try though.

 

[Laurasea]

Charlie horse, I am not sure how you convinced yourself that this death was night frights. None of our replies agreed with you on that! We believe infection killed your bird. I have not ever heard of seasonal allergies in a parrot. Please take your Mozy the grey to the vet for a long over due exam, blood work fecal gramstains. I hope your new baby has a long and happy life, and that your grey does as well. We just care about your Parrots lives. And we want you to be able to share happy stories for a long time.

 

[SilverSage]

Yeah... night frights didn’t kill him. We have tried to be kind and supportive but your attitude is really scary to me. Please take your bird to the vet!


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[greytness]

Infection, such as aspergillus, could have been to blame. Won't ever know for sure at this point.

Glad to hear that you are at least quarantining and cleaning everything. Are you using something along the lines of F10 as the disinfectant?

 

[ChristaNL]

You had me grinnn @ Mozam Beak.
I did not know it was the name of your grey, so I envisioned a small finch-like birdy attacking your caique;

this is what we know as a mozambiek-sijsje
(not my picture, just the internets)
https://myalbum.com/photo/w5MLBSCLew8i/1k0.jpg
They are tiny!


Anyway- great you are taking precautions, when are they going to the CAV with both birds for full tests? I always try to do that either en route to home of at least the first few days the bird gets to my home (if the tests cant be done before I pick up the bird/ and most ex-owners are not willing to do that).


I shuddered a bit at the term "replacement", since they are living beings with their very own personalities and not jobs or decorations... but it might just have been a poor choice of words and not shallow casualness from your side.
(and I am an expert when it comes to saying the wrong things at exectly the wrong moment- so no worries)

 

[LaManuka]

Hiya CharlieHorse. Firstly I am truly very sorry for the loss of Crayola (great name btw). It is never easy to lose a special birdie like that, as I well know having just lost my very precious tiny green angel GCC only about 6 weeks ago and am still not over it. Not sure I ever will be at this point.

I must agree with some of the other members however, that the symptoms you describe as “night terrors” or "panic attacks" in your caique sound more like seizures. I had a beautiful white cockatiel who suffered several massive seizures and eventually died whilst having one. She got them after chewing and ingesting aluminium from the ceiling in our sunroom. Our vet saved her from the brink once but the day she died was a public holiday, the vet was closed and she was gone within about 20 minutes anyway. Her name was Twinkle and she was just the sweetest, cuddliest darling girlie you ever did see and I still miss her every day. Houses are full of things that are toxic to pet birds & somehow they find those things irresistible. Crayola could easily have ingested something toxic while your back was turned.

I fully understand the emotional need to fill the void a lost loved one has left in your heart. That’s what I have always done too and it has never backfired on me until now. When I lost my precious GCC I rushed out and got another bird asap – to my eternal shame it has turned out to be a disaster because not only have I not gotten over my recently departed precious boy, the new addition ended up attacking and injuring my cockatiel, Fang. I could have handled ANY other combination of events but not that, and I have very reluctantly & sadly ended up having to rehome my quaker just recently (happily to a very good home but nevertheless I feel like total crap & a complete failure!) GaleriaGila nailed it best when she said “the only thing worse than one loss is another”, whether that additional loss is another death through undiagnosed disease or some other unfortunate circumstance. And what if your Mozam Beak injures your new baby like he did with Crayola?

You have already gone ahead and brought home Crayola’s “replacement” – I don’t care for that term much either. Can I please urge you to take both birds to an avian vet ASAP? You have already spent $1400 on Crayon, why not protect that investment as well as the health of both your birds? Now that the deed is done, please do not let some underlying, undiagnosed disease cut short either of their lives.

I offer my example up in this way to illustrate what CAN and DOES go wrong when a new bird is brought into a household too soon, whether its from an emotional or a health standpoint. Believe me when i tell you that you do NOT want to be going through this kind of anguish!! I got the vet checks done alright but everything still went wrong because the birds did not get along and I am way too heartbroken to be able to deal with it effectively. You could face either of these situations or something else completely different but you should at least get them vet checked to rule out potential medical problems.

I wish you EVERY SUCCESS with Mozam Beak and Crayon, I sincerely hope you and they have full and happy lives together.