Owner of a Sun Conure bummed and in need of lots of advice

[Cozmo]

I have been wanting a Sun Conure for at least 10 years but I had a Cockatiel and didn't want him to get less attention. After 24 years by Cockatiel passed away so I decided to go forward with my dream and get a Sun Conure. I ended up going to a breeder on March 16th and it wasn't a great experience. He brought me out a bird, I didn't get to pick one out, trimmed his wings and told me this was the bird for me. He told me that he was a hand fed baby was a DNA tested male and was 14 weeks old. He told me to throw a towel over him everytime he was bad for 2 minutes and then but him in a towel burrito for 5 minutes. I did this for the first day, thinking this guy knew what he was talking about, but then I quit because my gut didn't think this was the right thing to do. I work from home so I have him in the office in his cage next to me hoping he'll get used to me but so far no luck.

I am so bummed because he doesn't want to come out of his cage and the only time I can get his out is if he falls to the bottom and then he does his step up onto a stick or my finger and then I can get him out. When he's out he doesn't want anything to do with me he just flys off my finger. He lets me do the step up with him, although he puts his beak on my finger and pinches pretty hard, but again he just flys off my finger. Yesterday I thought I'd work with him away from his cage in the bathroom to let him get used to me but he just went into the corner and fluffed up and opened his mouth at me everytime I tried to get him to step up. Needless to say he ended up biting me pretty hard and breaking the skin.

I am so sad because everything I read says they're so loving and want to be with people but Cozmo seems to be different. I really feel like I made a mistake getting him and need ton's of advice if anyone has any to help me.

 

[Customcasket]

Well, you've only had him for a short period of time. I'd give him more time to get used to you. He's just a baby and has only been at the breeders. It may take him a few months to warm up to you. I wouldn't do the towel thing. That is horrible. Sometimes toweling is necessary (like a trip to the vet) but I would never use it as punishment. A firm NO! and time away has generally worked with my guys. The towel burrito seems like such a cruel punishment. Just spend lots of time talking to Cozmo and giving him little treats. I got my Sun to warm up to me that way. She wasn't mine originally and came to me with a bad attitude and a hatred of me. She is now my cuddle bug. It took time, but she turned around. I'm sure Cozmo will turn around and be your buddy. It just may take him some time to realize you're his friend not his enemy.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

The wings ARE clipped you said? How much does he 'fly away'? Or just flies down?
Anyhow, thinking back to when i got Georgie, she happened to like me and was a little bit clingy from the start (which presented its own problems later.....) but all the other suns got spooky and flew away from me. It's normal in the beginning.

I had a table top perch that i used to take Georgie out and put her on and give her dinner with me. I didn't really touch her much, just got her on my finger, stepped down to the perch and then she had all kinds of interesting foods to taste. After maybe 15 minutes, i would put her back. She started to realize that i liked her, coming out with me was fun, etc.

A lot of new birds will act like they 'hate' you in the beginning. They just feel scared. I reserve the towel for only when it needs to be used (when i first got Gilbert and he needed meds dropped in his mouth daily, i wrapped him in a towel so he wouldn't fuss).

 

[Birdlover11]

The guy just choosed the bird for you ? He didn't let you see the others ? Something is wrong about this guy, I agree with casket , toweling just for punishment is CRUEL , vet trips understandable . Give this guy a week, he is still adjusting to the new sounds and environment. He is probably panicking be cause he has NO idea who you are , he think you are a predator. Give him some time to relax, he would then understand you aren't trying to hurt him. Pepsi and Sprite started the same way

 

[Cozmo]

Thanks so much for responding I have just been feeling like such a failure.

Yes his wings are clipped so he just flies down and then runs away from me as fast as he can. I hate to go after him to pick him back up because I'm sure I'm scaring him but I don't want him to get hurt. Is the hard beaking thing normal when you do the step up because it hurts?

Yes the breeder just brought him out I didn't get to see where he was living or any of the other birds, which I thought was odd. My husband and I weren't even sure we should get a Sun Conure as we were still depating about getting another Cockatiel but after 30 minutes we were pushed out the door with a Sun Conure. The other thing he tried to teach us, which I thought was cruel, was to hold Cozmo's by the head with 3 fingers.

What's a good treat to give him? He seems to be a really picky eater because when I try to give him fruit and veggies he just throws them out of his dish to the bottom of the cage and then is restless until I put his Zupreem and Roudybush back.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

It's good he likes pellets. If he seems really scared, you may even want to just prepare yourself snacks/meals and go near the cage with it. Eat and talk to him while you eat, say what you are having, and "MMMM, yummy". Just kind of keep his attention going in a non threatening way. Maybe even offer some, whether he wants it or not (he will at least see you eating it, and give it the 'hairy eyeball'). He may take time, but he will come around when he is at ease. Little by little.

It is odd how the breeder acted. I mean, if the others were sold, he could have expressed "these are sold, this one is available" or something like that. But you can't change that now basically. You just may not recommend him! I was told to play with ALL the babies and let the bird pick me (georgie picked me--i liked one of the other suns better actually! i was told it is often best to take the one who wants you, because it is so much easier to tame them.) But anyhow, that is all in the past and you just need a good direction going forward.

But your gut was right. I wouldn't do anything to scare the bird. They act tough, but they are very sensitive and get scared easily.

 

[Sasha2]

One I thing I learned is when they fall and you have to get them.Dont ever grab, just go really slowly,, micro slow if you have to and gently scoop them up in both hands.Sometimes it helps to keep your fingers tucked in until your actually touching him. I even would lay on the floor and talk to him awhile before picking him up.
Thats how I slowly got my Greencheek used to being picked up when she fell to the floor and she was terrified of hands.OF course the former owner was a chase and grab person. I never even started any step up training until she was comfortable on my shoulder and arms.But thats because she had such a bad experience with hands before.
Personally that breeder is an idiot.Grab his head whats that all about.ITs all about trust and patience..Birds are like elephants they never forget.

Try fresh blueberries or cherries.My birds go nuts for those. And of course the standard Sunflower seed is always a good friend maker treat.

 

[momto3]

It sounds like the breeder is off his rocker! I wouldn't be too concerned about you not picking out the bird or getting to see others; we had our Quaker shipped to us and she has been a loving bird since the day she got off the plane.

Your bird is scared and even though hand reared, was probably not given the love that it needed as a baby. I am guessing that it has had bad experiences with people. I would start out really slow and earn his trust. Find a treat that it loves and offer that. Sit next to the cage and read out loud. I find my bird loves when I sing to it. You might want to stop trying to get it to step up until it willingly comes to you and takes treats from you. Once your bird gets more used to you, placing him on the floor and then picking him up gently helps create a bond. My birds LOVE to have me scoop them up when they are on the floor and scared.

Absolutely don't towel him or do anything that is negative. Your bird is going to need to learn that toweling is fun and ok because you might need to towel him down the road for vet visits or wing trims. Getting him to like toweling is going to be tough, but with enough love and patience it might work for you.

For reprimands, try a firm "no" and the hairy eyeball for a few seconds. Since the bird is a baby, you are going to need to give him time to adjust to you, but not too much time because he needs to interact with people.

Just remember that parrots are really smart and he will figure out that you mean him no harm if you work really hard to earn his trust.

 

[legal_eagle]

I agree with the others that you're right at the beginning of your relationship, and you should not expect it to be as if he's been with you for several years, which is what most of us describe when we talk about our own birds (you, of course, know that too from your time with your cockatiel). I always try to keep the bird's perspective in mind, which might help you understand that your bird is scared due to being removed from where he grew up and having his wings clipped and living with a (for now) stranger. You need to do everything to make him not feel scared. If he flutters down on the floor, you might let him explore it and stay there so he sees he is safe and can make choices with successful outcomes. I like the idea of getting down on the floor with him and hanging out. Forget the toweling unless you have to restrain him (I only do that with my conure when I clip her nails). Maybe you could let him come out of his cage when he feels like it, and then you might go over and just talk to him. You want to avoid the situations where he is so scared that he feels the need to bite, so you don't foster a habit in him. And try not to let your feelings be hurt by his behavior ... he's doing the best he can in a world that is far from where his ancestors lived for centuries.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm sorry you found such a horrible breeder! The towel thing is known as flooding which results in learned helplessness... that is, the bird becomes exhausted and just gives up. It's removing the birds choice to choose and forcing them to endure a behavior they do not enjoy.

Towels should be fun and entertaining! Not scary! You could equate the towel/burrito idea to a human being wrapped up in a blanket, then an anaconda/giant python/bear/lion/tiger/etc wrapping it's body around the blanket or holding the human close to their body until the human gives up. Once the human does, he or she is released.

Taking the bird into another room or small room/bathroom is essentially the same concept. You force them into a small area where they can't escape and force them to endure your presence. Heck, even sitting near the cage of a frightened bird could be the same thing.

He's biting/nipping because he's afraid/unsure/not trusting of you, and the more you try and interact with him, the more he's likely to continue the behavior until it gets worse. If you keep forcing it, you are once again using flooding techniques.

Fresh foods are not "treats". They are an essential part of the diet. When providing fresh/cooked foods, you need to be creative. Here's a couple of threads that may be of help.

http://www.parrotforums.com/general...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/23367-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html



Now back to the training. Look into clicker training aka positive reinforcement. There are a lot of great people out there that go over what it is and how to do it. It's about giving parrots the choice. It's learning to interact and communicate with them. It's teaching them that we enjoy preferred behaviors over what we would consider as bad behaviors. It is about keeping each interaction between our birds a positive one, if at all possible. If you learn how to use positive reinforcement techniques, you can learn how to "punish" a bird in a none physical manner, but in an appropriate way where it can help to set up a bird for success. Punishment does not have to be physical and it does not have to be scary. When talking about punishment (as well as reinforcement), there is negative and positive. One, you ad something to the equation, and two, you remove something from the equation (i.e. your hand, a treat, a toy, etc).

Parrot & Bird Training Terminology | Good Bird Training

Many of the following links contain a bunch of information that will help! May need to wade through a lot of it, but the information is pretty good!

Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books / Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk
Lara Joseph | An avid avian training, behavior, and enrichment enthusiast.
Natural Encounters, Inc.
Written Works: Learning and Behavior - BehaviorWorks.com
Learning Parrots | Empowering the learners in our households / Working with Fearful Parrots: A Study in Videos
Carly Lu's Flight Blog: Parrot Training, Flight & Recall
Best in Flock - Parrot Blog | Updates and Musings About Life with Parrots
Living With Parrots Cage Free

 

[Cozmo]

I know that I've read that some people think that the Zupreem Fruit blend is bad but he doesn't really like the Roudybush pellets so I thought if I blended the 2 then he would start to like the plain pellets. Should I also be feeding him a little seed mixture? If so any recommendations?

 

[legal_eagle]

I know that I've read that some people think that the Zupreem Fruit blend is bad but he doesn't really like the Roudybush pellets so I thought if I blended the 2 then he would start to like the plain pellets. Should I also be feeding him a little seed mixture? If so any recommendations?

I think some seeds are good for them. I give my GCC two Avicakes (a seed cake that you can buy) every day.

 

[MonicaMc]

At this point in time, I think it's best that he's eating something rather than nothing. As he becomes more settled into your home, you can work on getting him to eat better things.

Zupreem is "ok", but I never did care for the rainbow poops, nor have I been crazy about the sugar content. It's what my flock started off eating when I decided to try and get them to eat pellets as part of their diet. Started with the colored (my mitred conure came to me eating pellets, which was the reason I started the switch with the rest of the flock), then went to the "natural", then moved to Roudybush, then fed Harrison's (and still do). I've also fed Mazuri, TOP's and LaFeber's , but never made a switch to any of those brands.

 

[Birdlover11]

Thanks so much for responding I have just been feeling like such a failure.

Yes his wings are clipped so he just flies down and then runs away from me as fast as he can. I hate to go after him to pick him back up because I'm sure I'm scaring him but I don't want him to get hurt. Is the hard beaking thing normal when you do the step up because it hurts?

Yes the breeder just brought him out I didn't get to see where he was living or any of the other birds, which I thought was odd. My husband and I weren't even sure we should get a Sun Conure as we were still depating about getting another Cockatiel but after 30 minutes we were pushed out the door with a Sun Conure. The other thing he tried to teach us, which I thought was cruel, was to hold Cozmo's by the head with 3 fingers.

What's a good treat to give him? He seems to be a really picky eater because when I try to give him fruit and veggies he just throws them out of his dish to the bottom of the cage and then is restless until I put his Zupreem and Roudybush back.

I think this guy is just breeding for a profit,your weren't even sure about getting one nd he just slapped a sun into your hand. They way he was so secret about his other birds, cruel methods, I reccomend not buying from this breeder. Do not listen to him, his methods don't punish, but makes the parrot have a growing fear of you. I give my birds avi cakes or nutriberries.

Nutriberries
Nutri-Berries « LafeberVet.com
Caged bird treats; Lafeber's El PAso Nutri-berries for parrots

Avicakes
Avi-Cakes « LafeberVet.com
Caged bird treats; Lafeber's El PAso Nutri-berries for parrots

 

[legal_eagle]

If you're still looking for some ideas for working with your sun conure, I would recommend this website: Welcome to BehaviorWorks.org. I recently read about Susan Friedman in PsittaScene magazine and thought her approach at training parrots is great. Hope that helps!