Overgrown Pionus beak

[MrCardinal]

Hello,

I have a Blue Headed Pionus and his beak has grown out pretty fast on me. I am concerned it is a danger to his health. I called his vet and they scheduled a beak trim in 2 weeks. His upper beak has always grown out and needed trimmed but I noticed his under beak is overgrown now, too. Looking at the attached, is he in any immediate danger? He is still acting like himself and eating his pellets with no issues.

Thanks

 

[SailBoat]

Time for a wellness examination, which needs to include a full blood spectrum test include possible issues with the liver.

May need to adjust diet based on findings.

Overly long beaks can cause issues with difficult eating.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and your stunning Pionus!

I've seen far more progressive growth, no immediate danger as long as he is eating and drinking normally. However, chronic beak overgrowth can be indicator of underlying illness such as liver disease. Evaluation by certified avian vet (or equivalent) with lab tests may uncover a readily treatable issue.

Does he consume fresh veggies and fruits in addition to pellets? Was he ever on a mostly or all seed diet?

 

[MrCardinal]

I need to get better about giving him fresh fruits and veggies.. he admitantly doesn't get many. He has been on pellets since I got him when he was 5 months old- he will be 12 years old in July. I can't get him to chew on anything besides a little bit of paper here and there. We have an avian vet we normally see and he just says Pionus are a grooming nightmare.. combined with him not liking to chew on things, we just always need beak trims. I was just worried he was in immediate danger.

 

[Scott]

Pellets generally better than all seed diet if he doesn't love veggies + fruit. Some parrots not very playful and all but ignore toys, but chronic overgrowth may signify something more worrying. I have no experience with Pionus to evaluate the vet's observation.

A remedy for increasing veggie + fruit intake is repeated offering and hope he becomes interested. May take weeks/months/years to develop well rounded appetite. One technique I've used is preparing identical bowls, offer one to your bird and begin eating from yours. Make "mmmm" sounds and bob your head in delight. Parrots are flock eaters and you are one of the flock! Some helpful ideas: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html

 

[noodles123]

Yes- check blood (liver panel, cbc etc)
Also, make sure the vet is avian, as a beak that long can have an extended blood supply where you couldn't expect it to start, so just make sure your vet knows what he is doing.


I would say "immediate" danger will not come from that beak if it's just like a week or so more (and he is still eating etc). If there is an underlying cause, then that could be problematic though.

 

[MrCardinal]

He sees the vet in 12 days (a week from this Saturday). He is an avian vet. You think that is not too long away?

 

[noodles123]

I am not really sure. I am inclined to say that 2 weeks is fine, but it just depends on the cause. If he has a liver issue, you want to address that, which is why I hesitate. Did you ask the vet about that?

 

[MrCardinal]

The vet has told me Pionus is a grooming nightmare and I have to deal with this forever. His beak has always grown fast and needed trimmed- ever since I've had him because he doesn't like to chew on things. The vet does yearly checkups and never has found an issue- he just doesn't like to chew things and his beak shows it. The vet said I will always have to deal with the beak growing really fast..Right now I'm concerned his beak is posing a danger and can't go any longer but the vet tech already told me not to worry as well as you guys.. that they have seen some massive overgrowth that goes around the head and we're nowhere near that. I'm just alarmed because I have never really noticed the underside grow too much but I think maybe I just never noticed it.

 

[noodles123]

The vet has told me Pionus is a grooming nightmare and I have to deal with this forever. His beak has always grown fast and needed trimmed- ever since I've had him because he doesn't like to chew on things. The vet does yearly checkups and never has found an issue- he just doesn't like to chew things and his beak shows it. The vet said I will always have to deal with the beak growing really fast..Right now I'm concerned his beak is posing a danger and can't go any longer but the vet tech already told me not to worry as well as you guys.. that they have seen some massive overgrowth that goes around the head and we're nowhere near that. I'm just alarmed because I have never really noticed the underside grow too much but I think maybe I just never noticed it.

You are probably fine, but in the meantime, you might consult with them about getting him on a non-alcohol based milk thistle for birds-- not in the water dish, but with a favorite food or something (as putting anything in water is questionable). I am pretty sure that properly formulated milk-thistle will do no harm to a bird with a healthy liver, and may help a bird whose liver is suffering. Do ask your vet, but mine had a liver issue and milk thistle corrected some pretty nasty numbers for her. I'd also avoid super fatty foods and super high protein because that stuff all goes to the liver. Don't cut your bird off of seeds, but do see if you can integrate more variety. Do you weigh your bird? That one way to track gain/loss, but it won't tell you much about the state of internal organs (barring a growth or something that causes a sudden gain).


If this isn't a liver issue, you might also consider a vitamin panel to see if diet is causing the overgrowth.


My bird has scissor beak and so I know the annoyance of having to trim beaks often(ish). Her jaw/beak is lopsided, so it doesn't wear evenly when she chews. She has to go every 3-5 months for trimming and that is if I let it go a bit.


Barring any health complications, the 3 major issues with a weird beak that isn't tended to often enough= 1. eating, 2. breathing and 3. blood supply extending if left untrimmed for too long.
I don't think your bird is there yet, but letting you know what the risks are if left unchecked and barring any organ issues.


EDIT- Laurasea mentioned testing for PBFD, and I would also suggest that test (just to rule it out). Do not panic, but it's much better to know than to not know, given the highly contagious nature of that virus. I have had mine tested and it was stressful wondering, but it's one of those sketchy diseases that looks different in lots of birds and is deadly to some while others just carry it. Beak abnormalities can be a sign, but again, it is a very weird disease and shows up differently across the board (despite certain associated characteristics). I would suggest that anyone with a weird beak or feather issue to get the test, so don't get too freaked out by the suggestion.

 

[Laurasea]

he is very very beautiful! I agree 12 days is fine.

I suggest testing for PBFD, as beaks can do this even when feathers stay fine.

O can't tell if he looks a little thin. If yiu font keep track of his weight , its something you should start. A digital kitchen scale set to grams works great. I just set my parrots on it.

Checking weight would let you know if he was having problems. Also sick burds often loose weight and you pick up problems early before any other symptoms. You go by % rather than grams as a few gram fluctuations can be normal. To do that take grams lost ÷ by normal weight then x 100 = % lost. My reading says 3% lost see a veterinarian to check things out, 5% or more you have a sick bird and get quickly to the vet. Even if eating and acting fine. Sick birds burn 2 x normal calories so weight loss is often seen. And may need supportive foods to see them past the problem and help recover quicker.

Keep us updated. He is so pretty! I've always wanted to meet one.

 

[MrCardinal]

Thanks for the replies- I think I am just overreacting and will wait to see the vet tech in about 2 weeks. I will mention some of these things brought up!

 

[Laurasea]

Please see the vet, and check blood work and gram stain stools. Even a burd tgst doesn't chew stuff doesn't develop a beak like this. They grind their lower beak against the upper beak to keep it in shape. They often do thus when content, before a nap, or bedtime.

 

[Littleredbeak]

I have a lovebird that has a fast growing beak especially when he eats unsprouted seeds. I use a nail file. I did take him in initially to get his beak trim and they used a dremel - I put to my finger nail and it It hurt Slightly and was pretty uncomfortable. I just regularly use the nail file - Luvy enjoys it and me are slowly shaping his beak to look normal. Glass nail files works best for us

 

[noodles123]

Please see the vet, and check blood work and gram stain stools. Even a burd tgst doesn't chew stuff doesn't develop a beak like this. They grind their lower beak against the upper beak to keep it in shape. They often do thus when content, before a nap, or bedtime.

Agreed- while it may not be 100% urgent, it is not healthy/normal. If this is happening, there is more to it than not wanting to chew.