Okay, let's talk ABV, PDD and Toe-tapping...

[Notdumasilook]

I see this is an older post but just saw it thought I can offer some info..
Presently my lil SC Booger is dealing with PDD/ABV.. Treating him as best I can and doing my level best to keep him happy and well in spite of it all. Lots of love, meds, and supportive care. Thankful I have a wonderful vet that has gone the extra mile for us. ABV is a horrid disease and most vets have no friggin idea how to treat it. There is no cure and does not look like there will be for a while yet. Still, with a bit of dedication, some common sense, and lots of love we can at least post pone the inevitable. I hate to even think of losing my lil Booger.. he is such a special lil critter. I owe him the best care I can give.
I would suggest getting away from the peanut butter and use natural almond butter instead.. good source of Omega-3s. Also, if you are not doing it already, provide a source of heat for the birds cage. PDD birds have lil if any body fat and have trouble staying warm. Myself, I rigged up a 40 watt bulb/desk lamp on Boogers cage. Do NOT use meloxicam... u celecoxib only.., prefer it in an almond oil suspension cuz it last a long time that way. Most vets give the improper dose.. Im gonna dig thru my vet info so I can put the right dose in here (should be 2 times a day, not once). Keep lots of fave foods handy to offer.. nutrient and fat rich diet...Booger gets lots of fresh foods and Harrisons power treats, and almond butter sandwiches...spiked with calcium and/or coconut oil for easy to digest energy. Also the vet gets a fecal sample once a month at least to look for secondary infections. Also ever time he takes a bath I blow dry him to keep him from getting chilled.
As far as those "horrid"" tasting antibiotics... there are alternatives. Most your average vets keep only one form... one that can be injected as well as givin orally.. those taste like CRAP.. Luckily, my vet has those specially formulated so given orally, they don't taste like kerosene. n Also, I have access to a "compounding pharmacy that can make meds up special for me. On all the meds I give my birds I also back up the syringe with corn syrup.. so the last taste they get is something sweet. My birds actually like taking meds. Its not a challenge... its like getting a "treat".. Luckily also my birds are accustomed to being handled, held, hugged, kissed, petted, etc.. so they are not a bit hand scared and do not panic even if somewhat restrained briefly for whatever reason.. its no big deal to them.
Hope this info helps folks with there critters.

celecoxib at 15 mg/kg orally twice daily <<<< THIS is the proper dose....daily for 2-3 months.

 

[Anansi]

I see this is an older post but just saw it thought I can offer some info..
Presently my lil SC Booger is dealing with PDD/ABV.. Treating him as best I can and doing my level best to keep him happy and well in spite of it all. Lots of love, meds, and supportive care. Thankful I have a wonderful vet that has gone the extra mile for us. ABV is a horrid disease and most vets have no friggin idea how to treat it. There is no cure and does not look like there will be for a while yet. Still, with a bit of dedication, some common sense, and lots of love we can at least post pone the inevitable. I hate to even think of losing my lil Booger.. he is such a special lil critter. I owe him the best care I can give.
I would suggest getting away from the peanut butter and use natural almond butter instead.. good source of Omega-3s. Also, if you are not doing it already, provide a source of heat for the birds cage. PDD birds have lil if any body fat and have trouble staying warm. Myself, I rigged up a 40 watt bulb/desk lamp on Boogers cage. Do NOT use meloxicam... u celecoxib only.., prefer it in an almond oil suspension cuz it last a long time that way. Most vets give the improper dose.. Im gonna dig thru my vet info so I can put the right dose in here (should be 2 times a day, not once). Keep lots of fave foods handy to offer.. nutrient and fat rich diet...Booger gets lots of fresh foods and Harrisons power treats, and almond butter sandwiches...spiked with calcium and/or coconut oil for easy to digest energy. Also the vet gets a fecal sample once a month at least to look for secondary infections. Also ever time he takes a bath I blow dry him to keep him from getting chilled.
As far as those "horrid"" tasting antibiotics... there are alternatives. Most your average vets keep only one form... one that can be injected as well as givin orally.. those taste like CRAP.. Luckily, my vet has those specially formulated so given orally, they don't taste like kerosene. n Also, I have access to a "compounding pharmacy that can make meds up special for me. On all the meds I give my birds I also back up the syringe with corn syrup.. so the last taste they get is something sweet. My birds actually like taking meds. Its not a challenge... its like getting a "treat".. Luckily also my birds are accustomed to being handled, held, hugged, kissed, petted, etc.. so they are not a bit hand scared and do not panic even if somewhat restrained briefly for whatever reason.. its no big deal to them.
Hope this info helps folks with there critters.

celecoxib at 15 mg/kg orally twice daily <<<< THIS is the proper dose....daily for 2-3 months.

I'm so sorry that Booger is dealing with PDD. I know firsthand how terrible that disease is, and how hard it can be on parrot and parront both. I also greatly appreciate you taking the time to share how you are dealing with it in order to help others.

The strain of ABV that Maya appears to have is nothing compared to the one Booger is battling at the moment. But my dearly departed Bixby had fought valiantly against that more aggressive and lethal form of PDD. The main difference is that I didn't know Bixby even had PDD until after he'd passed and I got the result of the necropsy. Heck, in my initial bereavement post I referenced a congenital defect as the cause of his death. My former vet had missed the diagnosis big time.

I'm so glad that you at least know what you are dealing with while the knowledge can still help. That you are better prepared to help Booger in his fight than I had been at the time when Bixby was in the midst of his. The earlier you know, the greater the quality of life you are able to afford for your fid. I really hope that you and he have many more years together. He sounds like a special bird.

 

[RavensGryf]

I'm sorry to hear about Booger also .

Stephen, as you say your first vet missed the fact that Bixby had PDD/ABV. Unfortunately, I had the same experience. For a while, the avian vet and his colleague that I was taking Adrion to, had no idea what was wrong with her. By the time she was on death's door, I took her to an exclusive Avian specialist, and he took one look at her and knew what it was by then. Since this is a fairly common disease, WHY aren't more avian vets even aware of it, or suspect it earlier?! Rhetorical question, but that irks me.

 

[Taw5106]

I don't know how I missed this thread but reading your thoughts aligns with some of mine. I am still fighting with Venus' respiratory issues but Husband and I had a realization, the respiratory issues flair up when she becomes extremely hormonal. Coincidence with the rush of hormones? Next vet visit I think I'll ask him about hormones and his thoughts on ABV and PDD. I haven't seen her toe tap but she has wing flipped.


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[Kentuckienne]

It can be helpful to take some literature, even stuff printed from online, to the vet with you. They might not keep up with the latest research and it's easier to say, she has these three symptoms and does this, what do you think of the possibility? I know I don't remember these complex things perfectly under pressure, so I try to write my questions down in advance.

 

[Anansi]

I'm sorry to hear about Booger also .

Stephen, as you say your first vet missed the fact that Bixby had PDD/ABV. Unfortunately, I had the same experience. For a while, the avian vet and his colleague that I was taking Adrion to, had no idea what was wrong with her. By the time she was on death's door, I took her to an exclusive Avian specialist, and he took one look at her and knew what it was by then. Since this is a fairly common disease, WHY aren't more avian vets even aware of it, or suspect it earlier?! Rhetorical question, but that irks me.

Believe me, I share your frustration, my friend. But in all fairness I have to point out that ABV and PDD are among the more difficult sicknesses to diagnose, due largely to the limitations of the tests used to detect them. ABV can only be detected when the virus is actively "shedding", leading to many false negatives. And to make matters worse, one strain of ABV cannot be differentiated from another. So since only two of the known strains are known to have a causative link to the various forms of PDD, even a positive test result doesn't necessarily mean that your bird is at risk for clinical symptoms of PDD. Add to this the fact that a significant portion of the captive avian population is indeed ABV positive, and you have the recipe for a very difficult diagnosis.

And as for PDD, short of invasive surgical procedures such as crop biopsies, or necropsy results, there is no definitive way to prove its presence. In my opinion, the best indicator is an x-ray, which might reveal a telltale enlargement of the proventriculus. (Of course, not all cases of PDD are focused on the proventriculus, which once again brings us to the difficulty of diagnosis.

My issue in Bixby's case was that the possibility hadn't even been considered until it was too late. It was just believed that he was battling a particularly stubborn infection, thus wasting valuable time. (And ironically, the vet in question was one of the pioneers of PDD research.) I truly believe that Bixby might still be alive if he'd had Maya and Jolly's current avian vet.

I don't know how I missed this thread but reading your thoughts aligns with some of mine. I am still fighting with Venus' respiratory issues but Husband and I had a realization, the respiratory issues flair up when she becomes extremely hormonal. Coincidence with the rush of hormones? Next vet visit I think I'll ask him about hormones and his thoughts on ABV and PDD. I haven't seen her toe tap but she has wing flipped.

Really? I'd be interested to know what your vet thinks in regard to the possible relationship between her occasional respiratory issues and her bouts of hormonal stress. I'm heartened by the fact that I don't recall ever seeing respiratory issues of the kind Venus displays as a listed symptom of ABV or PDD. (Not counting late-stage, of course, but that's obviously not Venus' situation.)

However, I think it is a very good idea to go to your vet with your thoughts on this. Just because it likely isn't due to ABV/PDD doesn't mean there isn't something else being triggered by the stressors of her hormones. How often has she wing-flipped, btw? And for what duration?

It can be helpful to take some literature, even stuff printed from online, to the vet with you. They might not keep up with the latest research and it's easier to say, she has these three symptoms and does this, what do you think of the possibility? I know I don't remember these complex things perfectly under pressure, so I try to write my questions down in advance.

AMEN! Going in to a veterinary appointment so prepared save a lot frustration later with forgotten questions and such. Good point.