Not allowing medical help posts

[OttoVonRuthless]

I know I'm probably in minority on this. It just makes me sad when posts asking for help with serious medical concerns usually seems like the post is replacing seeking veterinary care. Seeing more and more of these posts. It's heartbreaking.
I understand we all have different circumstances and I'm not judging anyone. I feel deeply for both the person seeking help and the bird.
I'd like to help if the subject says "Help!"and I'm thinking its something like cage set up, dietary, behavioral etc. but then I click on and read about a bird with a serious medical issue. Or one said it in the subject their bird was struggling to breathe. No one here can help that bird from this forum, by the time someone replies it could be too late.
I'd love it if when someone signs up you're told that medical concern posts aren't permitted and give them the link the lists of vets. Really all any of us can do anyway is refer them to the avian vet list.
I try to avoid those posts but it's not like I can just avoid "Health" section, they are suggested under most recent and in almost every category here and some put it in the subject line like one, the bird was struggling to breathe i didn't have to click to read it. . I could avoid posts subject "help" but they all don't use that as the subject.

I love this forum, I want to participate and interact with all you wonderful bird people but it's hard to enjoy it with constant triggers. I'm super sensitive to animals injured or sick and always have been. I know I can't help them all, I wish I could. Hell as a kid I cried over finding a dead cricket...I'm leaving this forum more often than not in tears or worrying about a bird I've never met or seen. It's getting to be too much for me. Yes, I know I can abandon my account and leave the forum but. I'd love to stay.
I thought when I joined a year ago here, I'd.rarely see these kind of posts. So seeing them so often isn't what I expected. If we could help them it would be different but 98% of them need to see an avian vet ASAP just not the advice of internet strangers.
I'm not talking about posts where you share something that happened just the ones seeking medical advice especially when it's emergency that bird needs a vet now.

Just my thoughts and being honest on my experiences here lately. Not whining or judging.

 

[LaManuka]

I know what you mean about some of those posts, @OttoVonRuthless, some of them leave me in tears too. Personally I always include the "Avian Health Resources" thread when I send my welcome message to any new member and I believe the other mods do too, but often it seems that new members are not even aware that they've got a message from us, much less actually read it. And many's the time that I've linked up that thread, only to find that the new member is from a country that has few or no avian vets available, or live many hours' drive away from one, or can't get in to see one even in an emergency. Avian vets are becoming harder to find and/or access, indeed mine retired earlier this year. But there have been many occasions when our membership has actually been able to help someone in that situation and their bird has recovered, so we really can't close our doors to people who need help.

On a personal note, I would hate to see you participating less in our community @OttoVonRuthless and I know many others would too and I'm sorry you find these posts so upsetting - quite frankly so do I. But the more our membership grows, so does the cohort of members who will have experienced such a situation and may actually be able to help, and we would not want to curtail that. There are also times when a member might have been to several avian vets already, and for whatever reason none have been able to help so they have turned to us in extremis. True we are not vets and there are many cases where it is appropriate to recommend prompt, professional intervention. But frequently where the member is in some remote part of the world we may be their last or only resource, and we would not want to turn anyone away in their time of need.

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

I know what you mean about some of those posts, @OttoVonRuthless, some of them leave me in tears too. Personally I always include the "Avian Health Resources" thread when I send my welcome message to any new member and I believe the other mods do too, but often it seems that new members are not even aware that they've got a message from us, much less actually read it. And many's the time that I've linked up that thread, only to find that the new member is from a country that has few or no avian vets available, or live many hours' drive away from one, or can't get in to see one even in an emergency. Avian vets are becoming harder to find and/or access, indeed mine retired earlier this year. But there have been many occasions when our membership has actually been able to help someone in that situation and their bird has recovered, so we really can't close our doors to people who need help.

On a personal note, I would hate to see you participating less in our community @OttoVonRuthless and I know many others would too and I'm sorry you find these posts so upsetting - quite frankly so do I. But the more our membership grows, so does the cohort of members who will have experienced such a situation and may actually be able to help, and we would not want to curtail that. There are also times when a member might have been to several avian vets already, and for whatever reason none have been able to help so they have turned to us in extremis. True we are not vets and there are many cases where it is appropriate to recommend prompt, professional intervention. But frequently where the member is in some remote part of the world we may be their last or only resource, and we would not want to turn anyone away in their time of need.

Thanks so much for your insights and thoughtful reply. I understand what you're saying and applaud the members who successfully helped someone through the forum with a sick birdy.
I may be at a crossroad here and have to take a lengthy step back from the forum because it is affecting me seeing these posts and feeling helpless.. I love birds more than people. But I wouldn't offer medical advice because I'm just a fellow bird roomie not an expert. I wouldn't be able to handle if I offered advice and there was a negative outcome. I'm too sensitive. Lol
It sucks avian vets are getting harder to find, I only have 1 left in my area. I recently experienced Ottos vet quitting suddenly and having to find a new one. Luckily there was one still in the area, she's now the only one.

 

[wrench13]

Don't give up the ship, Otto! Yes, reading posts crying for HELP can be very upsetting, and if that the case previewing so you dont get upset is smart. Pity the moderators, we read every one of them and often only have kind words, a reference to the CAV list and MAYBE some interim practical advice.

Hey you leave, who's going to post awesome Von Ruthless updates? Besides, we will track you down and order 20 pizzas to be delivered to you! J/K.

 

[Macawdamia Nut]

While we are not avian vets, someone out there may have dealt with a similar situation.

Over the decades I have dealt with dislocated toes after a nail trim done by the vet (“Just snap the toe into place. Loose toe joints are commonly seen in older macaws. Nothing to be concerned with.”), a bloody nose caused by a too-sharp toenail inserted in nostril (“If the bleeding stops right away, do not worry. If it happens again after the nails are trimmed and squared off, bring him in.”) and a cramped foot (“Watch it and if it happens repeatedly bring him in.”). I am fortunate that I can pick up the phone and call my avian vet. She freely dishes out advice (fortunately always of the “Don’t panic!” variety) without cost and without delay. I have a friend with a macaw and we share experiences. This community is a great way to share information.

I agree that serious issues like breathing or heart concerns require an immediate visit to the vet, but a lot of weird things can happen to birds and it can be reassuring to learn others’ experiences, especially for those who do not have ready access to an avian vet.

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

Thanks all. I'm just stepping away from exploring the forums, still will be around for dms. I know where my limits are and need to respect them. It's been personally a really rough year for me. I'm not leaving permanently.
I respect everyone's views and applaud the mods for having to read every single post. I'm not even slightly jealous of you mods.

See y'all in the DMs!

 

[Cathulhu]

I know what you mean about some of those posts, @OttoVonRuthless, some of them leave me in tears too. Personally I always include the "Avian Health Resources" thread when I send my welcome message to any new member and I believe the other mods do too, but often it seems that new members are not even aware that they've got a message from us, much less actually read it. And many's the time that I've linked up that thread, only to find that the new member is from a country that has few or no avian vets available, or live many hours' drive away from one, or can't get in to see one even in an emergency. Avian vets are becoming harder to find and/or access, indeed mine retired earlier this year. But there have been many occasions when our membership has actually been able to help someone in that situation and their bird has recovered, so we really can't close our doors to people who need help.

On a personal note, I would hate to see you participating less in our community @OttoVonRuthless and I know many others would too and I'm sorry you find these posts so upsetting - quite frankly so do I. But the more our membership grows, so does the cohort of members who will have experienced such a situation and may actually be able to help, and we would not want to curtail that. There are also times when a member might have been to several avian vets already, and for whatever reason none have been able to help so they have turned to us in extremis. True we are not vets and there are many cases where it is appropriate to recommend prompt, professional intervention. But frequently where the member is in some remote part of the world we may be their last or only resource, and we would not want to turn anyone away in their time of need.

Hello bird people!
I've been hanging Out in Lots of animal related Forums and i have a Suggestion: I am Not Sure If this is possible or wanted Here, but in a guinea pig Forum i was involved in the Moderators would Update the Thread titles with Trigger warnings/ more Info or Close Threads with obvious grave medical Problems.


I think a Forum is a great way to share Info and better understand the animals. Some Things might be normal that seem threatening or some Things that seem normal might be Dangerous. It's important to Help each Other Out, but also to make clear when it's time for the vet.

(Excuse my Bad grammar and spelling, i am no native speaker)

 

[LaManuka]

Hello bird people!
I've been hanging Out in Lots of animal related Forums and i have a Suggestion: I am Not Sure If this is possible or wanted Here, but in a guinea pig Forum i was involved in the Moderators would Update the Thread titles with Trigger warnings/ more Info or Close Threads with obvious grave medical Problems.


I think a Forum is a great way to share Info and better understand the animals. Some Things might be normal that seem threatening or some Things that seem normal might be Dangerous. It's important to Help each Other Out, but also to make clear when it's time for the vet.

(Excuse my Bad grammar and spelling, i am no native speaker)

Thank you for your suggestion, @Cathulhu, I will relay it to the rest of the Mod team for discussion

 

[SailBoat]

I have over 45 years of living and loving Amazons. I have never considered nor stated that I am an Amazon Expert! At best, I classify myself as an Amazon Snob! My household targets commonly older, normally abandoned/abused Amazons, which commonly arrive seriously ill! I know a great deal about Parrots and more specifically Amazons.

I have commonly come cross the Threads that you have noted and have provided some support, far more in the Past, but I have stopped of late. The why would likely lock into one of your Triggers, hence, I have left them out!

It is very important to understand that providing support very rapidly comes to medication and when dealing with Parrots, dosage is critical. Get it wrong and the situation goes from serious to deadly. Add the issues of; If a little helps, much more will do it quicker! As a result even if one helps, the other individual will over dose their Parrot!

Long story very short! The MD World has this Statement: Do No Harm!! Unless one has the knowledge, one causes harm! It is not that this Forum is not heartbroken by those Threads! It has just come to understand that not causing harm is helping!

But, you have all ready moved on!

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

@LaManuka Anyway to have these kind of posts in one section? So you have to click into that section to read them? Then I could just avoid the "Recent" posts and that area of the forum.

I care too much that's why the posts upset me and I've been in the spot some of them are in when a family members pet became ill.. We didn't have a good outcome. Seeing those posts cause me to go back to that memory.

 

[SailBoat]

Thanks all. I'm just stepping away from exploring the forums,

See y'all in the DMs!

Sorry, but I was under the impression that you were only following PM's (DM's).

I understand the reality of triggers, but believe that a special forum is needed to help individuals to avoid specific Threads is a step too far as the vast majority of such Threads clearly state their want and one can easily avoid opening it.

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

Sorry, but I was under the impression that you were only following PM's (DM's).

I understand the reality of triggers, but believe that a special forum is needed to help individuals to avoid specific Threads is a step too far as the vast majority of such Threads clearly state their want and one can easily avoid opening it.

I've been checking this thread as good ideas have been suggested. I'm going through my profile to get here. Btw I agree with your previous post, I worked in medical.
It triggers me because I've had a family member in the position some of these folks are in, asking for help. It takes me back to that and we didn't have a good outcome.

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

Sorry, but I was under the impression that you were only following PM's (DM's).

I understand the reality of triggers, but believe that a special forum is needed to help individuals to avoid specific Threads is a step too far as the vast majority of such Threads clearly state their want and one can easily avoid opening it.

I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like a special section for medical help posts would be going too far? The posts would still show in recent posts & be seen, it would just make it so everyone knows what they're getting into before clicking in that section. It could be a section just like we have for Budgies, Amazon's etc. not a whole separate forum.

 

[SailBoat]

I've been checking this thread as good ideas have been suggested. I'm going through my profile to get here. Btw I agree with your previous post, I worked in medical.
It triggers me because I've had a family member in the position some of these folks are in, asking for help. It takes me back to that and we didn't have a good outcome.

As a result of the very specific Amazons that come to live-out their life's with us. Death is far too common and the pain never eases. I daily walk past Amazon Hill and tears are common! As a result, we have learned that 'we' needed to know what to do from a First Aid position, have the needed supplies on-hand and how to use them, to assure that medical support is available near-by and that we have the abilities to get there quickly.

We live in a Four Seasons State and have long owned Four-Wheel-Drive vehicles to assure that regardless of weather to assure we can get to our Avian Vet.

We have loss too many beloved Amazons, tears are a reality as is our love for them and while we are grieving, the calls from area Vets and Rescuers are already calling.

I understand what triggers are and especially when it relates to loss of Parrots (and for us, specifically Amazons). I understand the heartache, the emptiness, and that it does-not-go-away.

Want to know more about caring for Parrots, Read this Thread: (I Love Amazons - An On-Going Journey!)

 

[LaManuka]

@LaManuka Anyway to have these kind of posts in one section? So you have to click into that section to read them? Then I could just avoid the "Recent" posts and that area of the forum.

I care too much that's why the posts upset me and I've been in the spot some of them are in when a family members pet became ill.. We didn't have a good outcome. Seeing those posts cause me to go back to that memory.

Posts dealing with health issues are already corralled in the "General Health Care" sub-forum for the most part, though there will inevitably be some that crop up elsewhere, and the mod team moves health-related posts into "General Health" where appropriate. There are a number of members I am aware of who actively avoid sub-forums such as "Bereavement" and "General Health" because they just find them too distressing.

Perhaps it may help if you access content via the "Forums" heading along the banner at the top of the home page, circled here in red ...

That way you could more judiciously pick and choose the sub-forums you wish to avoid, bearing in mind of course that disquieting posts will inevitably show up elsewhere too. It may also help you to avoid posts like these if you just hover your cursor over it for a preview before opening it, that should give you enough info to decide whether you wish to actually read it or not.

I'm sorry this is such an issue for you, @OttoVonRuthless. Believe me I do understand, I have lost birds in the most traumatic of circumstances - reminders of them are everywhere and they bring me to tears on an almost daily basis. How does that old saying go, "grief is the price we pay for love"? Whenever a post like that affects me it helps me to believe that we honour them with our tears, when we cry it speaks to how much they mean to us and how much we will always love them. We are all here because we love our birds and we care so much about other people's birds too, they are magical creatures that bring so much joy but there will always be sadness and tragedy in the mix as well. And I believe it's that spirit of empathy that binds this community together and makes it so great.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I feel ya, Ruthless, I truly do. I assuage my horror and sadness over such posts by answering with an earnest plea for veterinary intervention, and add this blurb.


Certified Avian Vets

Find an ABVP Specialist - American Board of Veterinary Practitioners

Find a Specialist ABVP Diplomates have proven knowledge and expertise above and beyond what is required to practice veterinary medicine. Beyond that, they have earned the privilege to specialize in the treatment of one or more categories of animals. Diplomates are in 49 of the 50 US states...

abvp.com

If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians

http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803

In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.
International contacts, too.
If none are near you, maybe you could call and ask for a recommendation for somebody in your area.
And... sometimes, distant vets will offer brief thoughts or advice...
Or... sometimes I find a place to start just by Googling "avian veterinarian near ((your location))"

 

[Terry57]

I truly sympathize, posts about a sick bird hurt me as well. And I'm so sorry that it brings back bad memories for you. But I've also been the one on the other side, the one who is terrified about my bird.
I'd like to share that with you.

There were 3 different vets who saw birds here, and none of them could fit me in. I came onto the forum to get help and support, and I don't know what I'd have done without either. I ended up seeing a vet who said they saw birds but obviously didn't, and gave me absolutely terrible news about my baby. Several people were telling me that I needed to get him in to his vet to retest because something about his diagnosis didn't sound right. Seems so simple that I should have thought of retesting, I'd suggested it to others before, but I was so upset I couldn't think straight.

The first vet was wrong, but because it took several days to get in to see his vet he ended up passing away anyway from an infection that the first vet should have caught. But I had him for a few extra days because of the caring people here, with no retest he wouldn't have gotten the meds he needed, and before the meds he was so weak that I don't think he'd have survived the week.

So as much as it hurts my heart to read about a bird with an illness or injury, if it means helping one bird and their terrified owner, it's worth the pain to me. I sort of feel like I'm paying it forward.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone skipping a thread for any reason! All of us have things that hurt us too much to do, and no one should feel bad about putting our own oxygen mask on first.

As far as having it removed from 'New' or 'Recent', in my opinion it would mean less eyes on a thread that truly needs those eyes. We will of course change the title if it's too graphic, and that has happened before. Mart's got eyes like a laser, and nothing bad stays up for long with her on the
job

I really hope that you don't decide to stop posting, I'd miss you and Otto way too much!

 

[OttoVonRuthless]

I truly sympathize, posts about a sick bird hurt me as well. And I'm so sorry that it brings back bad memories for you. But I've also been the one on the other side, the one who is terrified about my bird.
I'd like to share that with you.

There were 3 different vets who saw birds here, and none of them could fit me in. I came onto the forum to get help and support, and I don't know what I'd have done without either. I ended up seeing a vet who said they saw birds but obviously didn't, and gave me absolutely terrible news about my baby. Several people were telling me that I needed to get him in to his vet to retest because something about his diagnosis didn't sound right. Seems so simple that I should have thought of retesting, I'd suggested it to others before, but I was so upset I couldn't think straight.

The first vet was wrong, but because it took several days to get in to see his vet he ended up passing away anyway from an infection that the first vet should have caught. But I had him for a few extra days because of the caring people here, with no retest he wouldn't have gotten the meds he needed, and before the meds he was so weak that I don't think he'd have survived the week.

So as much as it hurts my heart to read about a bird with an illness or injury, if it means helping one bird and their terrified owner, it's worth the pain to me. I sort of feel like I'm paying it forward.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone skipping a thread for any reason! All of us have things that hurt us too much to do, and no one should feel bad about putting our own oxygen mask on first.

As far as having it removed from 'New' or 'Recent', in my opinion it would mean less eyes on a thread that truly needs those eyes. We will of course change the title if it's too graphic, and that has happened before. Mart's got eyes like a laser, and nothing bad stays up for long with her on the
job

I really hope that you don't decide to stop posting, I'd miss you and Otto way too much!

I understand and I'm sorry you've also been in that position. I never wanted them removed from new/ recent., I can avoid it. Np. It just got overwhelming because they were in almost every category I went to, they were suggested as next post for everything. I easily avoided bereavement posts, haven't seen one. It got to a point only safe zones were POTM and my profile. I was avoiding new/ recent and general health.

I appreciate the forum wants to help and I do too, I just know I can't help someone who's bird is struggling to breathe and they don't have a vet. My heart hurts for them. But I know there is nothing I personally can do. I don't have enough in me to be emotionally supportive or a shoulder to cry on. I don't have that in my life, people around me have turned me ( their rock) into dust and it was a one sided deal. I was there for them but I got silence when I needed them. .. My plate is overflowing. I'm completely depleted.

I love all animals, I have a bird. But I'm not social and where I am personally in my life I can't take on others sick birds. I care too much and it's just another thing that keeps me awake at night. I don't have it in me I can't even take care of myself, every bit I have goes to Otto's care. Every second of life is torture for me. ( Those other than Terry reading this I have CRPS aka the most painful condition known to man or the suicide disease).

I may sound uncaring and selfish but I know my limits and know my life experience I am the only one going to look out for me.

I'm currently looking to re-home Otto and that's my last straw. I've got nothing left.

Please close this thread

 

[LaManuka]

Thread closed as per member request.