New to forum and a new orange wing owner

[ftlaudmom]

Hello everyone - I've been reading the forums here for some time while I searched for the "perfect" bird to adopt. I had a yellow-nape for 23 years and lost him to a wild animal mishap in July. His name was Ziggy and after I lost him I swore I couldn't replace him by getting another bird. Fast forward a few weeks and I missed the singing, whistling and general antics of my little guy. So I decided to look around to see if there was another amazon that would be ok for me to adopt. I'm not a bird expert at all and only really knew my bird. I found an adorable 4 year old orange wing named Rico on Craigslist and the fact that his owners thought I was just the right person despite having him listed for weeks, made me feel like we were meant for each other.

When I met Rico he was extremely friendly and loves to be on my shoulder and get scratches. I was in love. So he's home now and though he was used to flying around his previous owners screened in porch, my porch is open so he will need to be clipped. He's used to being clipped I heard so I think it will be ok. I haven't taken him out of his cage yet as he's still getting used to his new surroundings and lunged at me when I attempted to get him to come to my hand so I left him alone. He seems to be adjusting ok, he's talking and whistling in the evenings and hanging out by the door when I come over so that he can be let out.

My problem is that I need to get him out to go have his wings clipped but I don't want to make him distrust me so soon into the relationship. The guy at the bird shop thinks it'll be ok and I'll be forgiven quickly so I plan to towel him if necessary and take him on Thursday. I really want to start being able to let him out and interact with him out of his cage as soon as possible so I think the sooner the better. Any advice will be welcome since as I said before, I'm no expert and I am only familiar with my previous bird and budgies. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with Rico since he really is a little lovebug and deserves a lot of affection. Thanks.

 

[IcyWolf]

I have always clipped my own birds without a problem but if you are concerned about it, do you have someone else that could towel him for you and then you could take over and clip his wings, and then have the same person that toweled him release him? That way he doesn't really make the connection that you toweled and clipped him? Assuming he doesn't poke his head out see you doing it? We have our first flighted bird for the first time now and it is pretty awesome, it has kind of changed my whole perspective on living with parrots and I think I'm going to make the best effort possible not to clip in the future, but sometimes it needs to be done.

 

[lene1949]

Some years ago I looked after a very aggressive GCC... His wings were not clipped and his bites very painful.

I started clicker training him - first target training within his cage. When he would go all over the cage to target, I opened the door, and did targeting outside the cage... He learned quite a few tricks just using the target stick, and his biting/aggression stopped. I never clipped his wings.

 

[henpecked]

I too would suggest you not towel him your self.Maybe you can get him into his travel cage without having a bad experience.Perhaps hold the travel cage up to the cage and lure him with a peanut.BTW i have 7 OWAs and really love them,great birds.

 

[oled]

My DYHA Polly is wing cliped but I have a freind taking him and do the cliping but still Polly forgives him in a minute

 

[ftlaudmom]

How about a gloved hand? Is that better than toweling you think? Last night while I was talking to him and blowing him kisses he held up his foot so I know he wants to come out. I know what a big amazon bite feels like and I really don't want one. LOL

 

[mtdoramike]

I agree with henpecked. I wouldn't towel him, it will take a long time to build back any trust that you both have formed. Train him on the stick method. Take a dowel rod a minimum of 12" long and start teaching him to step up on the stick giving a reward each time he does it. I was able to train my Senegal and Eclectus the stick method within a couple of days and I will re-enforce the training like once a week just to keep them used to it. I think all birds should be stick trained right off the bat. So that way if in a position to need someone handle the bird that isn't famiar with them, they will be able to get them in and out of the cage.

I used the stick method to get Tiki my Senegal into her travel cage. She won't get in there any other way than with the stick. Now once the wing clipper finishes with clipping the wings and releases your bird from the towel or other method they use, your bird will look for you to be consoled. This is the time to really interact with him because he will look for you, his flock leader for comfort and safety.

When the mobile bird groomers finish with both my birds, they put them on the floor and they RUN to me and I scoop them up and tell them how brave they were and dote on them quite a bit.

 

[ftlaudmom]

Hey guys I couldn't wait any longer so I put on some gloves and got him in his carrying cage when it got dark. Hopefully it won't take too much work to win his him over after his wing clipping tomorrow. I'm hoping so I''ll let you guys know how it goes. I was just so anxious to get him out and cuddle and he was really begging but he was spoiled by his previous owner who would let him fly around the screened in porch once he was let out so i couldn't take the chance. I'll report back soon. No towel necessary. I just grabbed him by the head and feet and put him in the cage so we'll see how it goes. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

 

[ftlaudmom]

Reporting back. Rico got his wing clipping and nail trimming today. He was well behaved and back at the office (he went to work with me) I left his cage top open so he could go where he wanted and he was quite content. He went to anyone in the office who came by - protesting a little I might add but I know Amazons are good at "complaining" so I just put him on their shoulder or hand or whatever and he was very happy. Back at home my daughter got to hold him for the first time and he comes to me with no problem so I guess he didn't hold too much of a grudge for the gloves last night. He's back in his cage and tucked away for the night. I think we're going to be ok now.

 

[henpecked]

It's great to hear all is well with Rico,It's good that he's getting some "hand" time now. Enjoy you new buddy.

 

[ftlaudmom]

So today I came home really anxious to get Rico out of his cage to play with me and he was clearly excited to see me. He was chattering nonstop saying new things that I hadn't heard before. However, when I put my hand in to get him out he bit me. He bit hard but didn't break the skin so I know he wasn't trying to hurt me just exerting his independence I suppose. I don't know if I mentioned he came with his own cage and toys so he's clearly comfortable in his cage and is being territorial. His previous owner said he came out of his cage on his own and I really want him to learn to come out on my hand or else I won't have much control once he get up on his play area. I have discovered that he loves banana chips so I plan to use those as his treat for behaving. I kept putting my hand in the cage and saying up and he repeated "up" but never came to my hand. He kept trying to bite for a while but I didn't let him get at me and he didn't get his treat until he let my hand stay there without lunging. After that I gave him his bowl of food and let him be. That was it. No people time for him today. I went to the "trainedparrot.com" site and read Michael's target training technique. I think I'm going to try that tomorrow and see how that goes.

Rico is clearly not afraid of people as he was very social yesterday with everyone so I think he was just a little spoiled before and I'm hoping I can change that behaviour soon so he can come out everyday and spend time with us without too much fuss.

 

[henpecked]

Rico may want to be in his cage ,more so than his new play area. When he steps up put him back in his cage quickly .Biting might be his way of telling you no,i don't want to go.He fears you are going to take him away from his safe spot. Reward him for stepping up by putting him back, the trusting you to take him somewhere he'll enjoy will come later when he feels safe in YOUR home, something that won't happen over night.

 

[ftlaudmom]

Hi there - today is day 10 with Rico. Yesterday he ventured out to the door to get treats from me but quickly retreated back into his cage to eat each one. So I praised him and then gave him his dinner and called it a night. This morning was the first morning he woke up happy. He got his fruit and veggies and my daughter told me he had a good day. When I came home he was all over the door wanting to come out so I opened it and he sat on the door taking treats from me and then flew off onto the floor. He allowed me to pick him up ok and was trying very hard to go up to my shoulder but I won't allow that until he's really trusting of me.

I put him on his perch and he started getting nervous again. He screeched each time I asked him to step up but he stepped up nervously a few times and tried to run up to my shoulder each time but I just put him back on the perch each time. Once he realized he wasn't going to be allowed on my shoulder he wouldn't step up anymore. He's clearly still very nervous around us and so he flew off to the ground and I picked him up and praised him and then put him back into his cage for the night.

During his time out of the cage my husband changed the perches and toys just so he learns to adjust to new things and he didn't seem comfortable with the change. I hope I did the right thing and that the changes weren't too drastic for him. He's hanging in a corner right now but I turned off the lights for the night so we'll give it another shot tomorrow.

One thing that is different with him from my other yellow nape is that when my yellow nape didn't want to step up i could always guide him to my hand with my other hand flat open but Rico doesn't care for that movement. I think he feels cornered by both hands so I'll have to try another approach. Tomorrow's another day.

 

[henpecked]

The hands are a big deal with rico,sure he steps up from the floor because he feels very vulnerable there. Couple of mistakes that i notice, don't take him away from the cage just yet. You changed too many things at once in his cage,try moving one perch at a time or adding one toy at a time, i'm sure he has an issue with one of the toys you added.Maybe next time hang the new toy on the outside and watch his reaction. Slow things down in general, Rome wasn't built in a day.If he'll come out to the door to take treats ,fine ,keep it that way for awhile.Rushing things will cause trust issues. I feel like your taking one step forward and then two steps back when you push for results. The shoulder thing is related to the issue with the hands,lack of trust because hands are always forcing him to do things he doesn't want to.Are you having trouble petting him? Most zons will allow pets before stepping up, pets are good and aren't taking him away from his safe spot ,which is not so safe anymore because of all the new things in there. Baby steps , take it slow and don't try and make him like your old bird ,who by the way took time to become the bird you remember. Yes work with him everyday but don't expect things to change overnight.Zons build very strong and long lasting bonds with the people they trust ,such bonds are developed over time,if they made these bonds quickly they might be forced to live with poor choices for a long time.Sort of like human couples and marriage.The results you should be looking for are him deciding to do the things you want and not you making him behave the way you want, once he's bonded to you pleasing you will be one of his top priorities.I'm afraid he'll bond to someone else in your house hold who doesn't push him so hard.

 

[ftlaudmom]

You're so right! I feel awful now because as you said I've taken one step forward and like maybe 5 steps back. I called home to see how he was doing and my husband said he's coming back around to whistling and talking. He was totally miserable last night after I rearranged his cage but now I don't want to go back and mess with it again so I'll just add those things back one at a time. I didn't really add anything new just a perch. I took out some rope toys that were frayed as I heard that his toes could get caught in those but unfortunately they were his favorites as he was always sitting up in there. I can't wait to go home and talk to him softly and give him some treats and maybe he'll start to forgive me.

I called the pet store close by where I took him last week for his wing clipping. The owner is very experienced and owns all sorts of large birds himself and he said it will take TWO YEARS for Rico to trust me! OMG! Do you think he's right about that???

 

[henpecked]

4 yr old zon,taking treats from you,No i don't think it will take 2 yrs.Depends on how well you can read him and his attitude/personality.

 

[ftlaudmom]

I feel better just with that from you. I am so eager to make friends with him that I'm forgetting all the basics that I learned years ago when I got my first amazon. So I'm stepping back for a while. He seems to be coming around - at least when I'm not around - but when I get home its usually late and he's quieted down. His cage is outdoor so he goes to bed with the sunset and rises the same. He's still taking the treats from me but not as eagerly as before so I'll work on that.

I remember when I got my first amazon he was a little nippy also when I'd take him out of his cage until I got him away from the cage altogether and we were in neutral territory. Once the cage was out of sight he was fine and very happy and sociable. So I'll wait until Rico seems ok to come out again and the next time I take him out I'll bring him in where he can't see his cage and then let him hang out with us indoors for a while to see how that goes. I know when I brought him home from the groomer he was fine with us inside the house and didnt appear nervous or nippy. So that's where I am with my thinking so far. Let me know what you think about that idea. He appears to love my daughter and is definitely excited when he sees my husband but they're both too scared at this point after they saw him bite me. My previous bird was only nice to me and no one else in the household could even get near so they're not about to try to hold him if they think they'll get bit. Thanks for your advice and I'll watch for any more tips that you might have for me.

 

[ftlaudmom]

Today was day 13 and I'm feeling much more positive about Rico's transition. He was soooooo happy when I got home and I didn't interact too much with him today since he has appeared a little turned off by all the attention. I just sat on the porch with the family talking and he was just chattering and laughing along and just having a grand ole time trying to interrupt us every chance he got. I'm anxious to try again for him to come out but I'm taking henpecked's advice and taking things a little slower now. I put back his favorite perch which I had previously switched out. After he got his dinner it was getting kind of dark so he calmed down and went back to his favorite perch and quieted down for the night. He seems much more relaxed today in general and I'm hoping for a good weekend.

I don't know anything about clicker training as I never used one with my other parrot but I picked one up and I'm going to start using it whenever I give him treats from now on just to see how he reacts. I've read some good things about it and was thinking its worth a try. Rico seems like a really smart little guy and I think he'd take well to learning new things once he's warmed up to us - even if its two years down the road like the pet store guy suggested.... God I hope not....

 

[henpecked]

Sounds like things are going well, you and Rico will be best buds before you know it. Clicker training is a good way you to interact with him .figure out what his special treat is and use it only for training.Good luck

 

[ftlaudmom]

Weekend Report: Rico had a good weekend with the family. I started clicker training with his banana chips, which is the treat I've chosen to use only for training. He likes it a lot but I have break it into small enough pieces so that he can eat them fairly quickly. (I hope I can find another treat that will work just as good once we get to be better friends as the chips still take a while for him to consume). I used the clicker for each treat and he took them eagerly each time. He didn't seem bothered at all by the clicker so he might have either heard it before from his past owners or he's just a fast learner.

He's such a smart guy - he has a foraging toy with treats in each level of the puzzle. He's figured it out and lined up all the holes and got all the treats out already! I was impressed.

After last week's fiasco with him he hasn't seemed interested in approaching the door to come out again so I'm waiting through this week to see if he'll come out for treats. I want to give him space but I don't want him cagebound either so I'll play it by ear and see how this week goes.

@henpecked - if he does come out of the cage what do you think I should do next? I'm hesitant to take him too far from the cage but I think having him nearby and seeing it is just as bad so please let me know what you think. Thanks for you help and support.