New grand baby and my two orange winged amazons

[Kiwibird]

Heck, right above me we've got Kiwibird saying she thinks of dogs as "dirty" animals that she wouldn't ever allow in her house, despite the scientific fact that they just plain aren't....especially not any dirtier than our fellow man. These old wives tales and firmly held beliefs are often not rational and when they are spouted off by people we think "know" what they are talking about and have to do with the safety of our most precious beings.....people do and say funny things, because they are scared.

Well, they do shed, drool, lick their own butts, drag their butts on the floor, dirt/debris sticks to their fur and they don't wear shoes outdoors (which means it's like walking around indoors with shoes on, which I also don't like). All of those are facts, not old wives tales I don't think well cared for dogs (or any pet really) are inherently disease ridden, but they aren't clean in the way I tolerate indoors. I wouldn't NOT take my future children around to dog-homes for fear of diseases, but if they played with the dogs, I might bathe them right away upon getting home:54:.

 

[Bartleby]

Heck, right above me we've got Kiwibird saying she thinks of dogs as "dirty" animals that she wouldn't ever allow in her house, despite the scientific fact that they just plain aren't....especially not any dirtier than our fellow man. These old wives tales and firmly held beliefs are often not rational and when they are spouted off by people we think "know" what they are talking about and have to do with the safety of our most precious beings.....people do and say funny things, because they are scared.

Well, they do shed, drool, lick their own butts, drag their butts on the floor, dirt/debris sticks to their fur and they don't wear shoes outdoors (which means it's like walking around indoors with shoes on, which I also don't like). All of those are facts, not old wives tales I don't think well cared for dogs (or any pet really) are inherently disease ridden, but they aren't clean in the way I tolerate indoors. I wouldn't NOT take my future children around to dog-homes for fear of diseases, but if they played with the dogs, I might bathe them right away upon getting home:54:.

Except there are dog's that do none of the above, and so none of the above are facts across the board. They are your fixed, firmly held beliefs that are not rooted in reality. There are dogs who do all of the above and more, just as there are parrots that are exceedingly "dirty". It doesn't mean that ALL dog's are like that, nor does it mean that all parrots are like that.

I have one who is a therapy pet. He is bathed regularly AND is allowed into portions of medical buildings with immune compromised individuals where even the best groomed certified therapy parrots cannot be allowed. You have a parrot that flings food, which even the most rigorous cleaning routine may occasionally miss. I also remember a post where you took his cage outside and black goo oozed from the inside of the bars. I can gaurantee my dogs have never created a mess that has the same potential for pathogen growth on that scope.

Which is not to say the parrot did it (but it was a by product of owning a parrot in your house), or that you are not a scrupulously clean individual, just that right there was a huge health hazard presented by a parrot.....and there are many more. Parrot dander (which most species have, just not always on the dust species scope) can present a health hazard, even to the otherwise healthy individual. No, scientifically speaking, dogs are no more "dirty" than any other animal.....most importantly humans. Bathing your kids after playing with a dog is no more necessary than bathing your kid after playing with your parrot.....but of course that depends on the individual animal and it's husbandry, not on the species as a whole.

 

[Newbsi]

Heck, right above me we've got Kiwibird saying she thinks of dogs as "dirty" animals that she wouldn't ever allow in her house, despite the scientific fact that they just plain aren't....especially not any dirtier than our fellow man. These old wives tales and firmly held beliefs are often not rational and when they are spouted off by people we think "know" what they are talking about and have to do with the safety of our most precious beings.....people do and say funny things, because they are scared.

Well, they do shed, drool, lick their own butts, drag their butts on the floor, dirt/debris sticks to their fur and they don't wear shoes outdoors (which means it's like walking around indoors with shoes on, which I also don't like). All of those are facts, not old wives tales I don't think well cared for dogs (or any pet really) are inherently disease ridden, but they aren't clean in the way I tolerate indoors. I wouldn't NOT take my future children around to dog-homes for fear of diseases, but if they played with the dogs, I might bathe them right away upon getting home:54:.

Except there are dog's that do none of the above, and so none of the above are facts across the board. .

LOL a plushy dog maybe lmao!! That made me laugh.... and you said her beliefs are not firmly rooted in reality. Wow, that made my night. Thanks I really needed that

 

[Bartleby]

LOL a plushy dog maybe lmao!! That made me laugh.... and you said her beliefs are not firmly rooted in reality. Wow, that made my night. Thanks I really needed that

One of my dogs does not shed (he has a hair coat). He cannot reach his own butt to lick (you know, bulky structure that does not physically allow him to reach his own butt). I have only ever had ONE dog that dragged her butt across the floor (because she had an impacted gland that hurt, fixed that, it didn't happen again). Once again the therapy pet does not have the physical build to be able to touch his actual butt to the ground anyway (he would have to contort to a degree that not possible). Since I keep him trimmed extremely short he does not collect debris in his hair (there isn't enough hair to collect it), he has to be bathed regularly due to visiting hospitals twice a week, so basically gets a bath daily. And, believe it or not, he has to wear booties when he leaves the house. His pads were badly damaged when he was very young, does not have the rough protective skin and so has to wear a pair of Ruff Wear rubber soled booties to keep him from developing blisters.

I have OCD straight up. I have issues with cleanliness and orderliness on an actual clinically relevant scale. We are not talking about a desire or urge for it, we are talking about a compulsive pattern of behavior that made me almost unable to function because.....the world is fricking dirty! After medication helped to moderate the disease one of the ways I have sought to help myself is to understand the real (not imagined or perceived) levels of contaminants, dirt, disease, detritus, debris involved in everyday life. So yes, these are fixed beliefs not rooted in reality. Making blanket statements about anything (which saying dogs are dirty, dogs do this or that IS a blanket statement) is going to cause a person trouble.....especially when they are neglecting to even consider the individual.

 

[Kiwibird]

Except there are dog's that do none of the above, and so none of the above are facts across the board. They are your fixed, firmly held beliefs that are not rooted in reality. There are dogs who do all of the above and more, just as there are parrots that are exceedingly "dirty". It doesn't mean that ALL dog's are like that, nor does it mean that all parrots are like that.

I have one who is a therapy pet. He is bathed regularly AND is allowed into portions of medical buildings with immune compromised individuals where even the best groomed certified therapy parrots cannot be allowed. You have a parrot that flings food, which even the most rigorous cleaning routine may occasionally miss. I also remember a post where you took his cage outside and black goo oozed from the inside of the bars. I can gaurantee my dogs have never created a mess that has the same potential for pathogen growth on that scope.

Which is not to say the parrot did it (but it was a by product of owning a parrot in your house), or that you are not a scrupulously clean individual, just that right there was a huge health hazard presented by a parrot.....and there are many more. Parrot dander (which most species have, just not always on the dust species scope) can present a health hazard, even to the otherwise healthy individual. No, scientifically speaking, dogs are no more "dirty" than any other animal.....most importantly humans. Bathing your kids after playing with a dog is no more necessary than bathing your kid after playing with your parrot.....but of course that depends on the individual animal and it's husbandry, not on the species as a whole.

In what way are my beliefs not rooted in reality? Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the majority don't do most or all of those things, making them legitimate considerations and concerns. My mom has a parrot who hasn't bit anyone in his entire 40+ years on this planet, but that doesn't mean 99% of other parrots wouldn't bite at some point because a rare exception exists. I also didn't say or imply they are disease ridden, I merely pointed out while I wouldn't let them in my house, I don't have issues going to other peoples homes that have them (nor with exposing any future kids to them) and that I was having trouble understanding the OP's daughters POV on the bird issue since they weren't in her home. There is a BIG difference between dirt/mess and disease. Plus, there are plenty of people who would happily let their muddy dog run through the house and climb on the furniture and find it adorable, yet shudder at the thought of a parrot flinging some fruit or seed. I understand it too, why someone wouldn't want bird mess. Parrots are messy little beasts. We all have out own level of comfort of what "dirt level" is acceptable. But I find many dog owners can't accept that there are non-dog people. It's always been amusing to me What I can't understand is where someone who can look at a clean bill of health from a qualified vet and still believe an animal has communicable diseases.

 

[Bartleby]

In what way are my beliefs not rooted in reality? Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the majority don't do most or all of those things, making them legitimate considerations and concerns. My mom has a parrot who hasn't bit anyone in his entire 40+ years on this planet, but that doesn't mean 99% of other parrots wouldn't bite at some point because a rare exception exists. I also didn't say or imply they are disease ridden, I merely pointed out while I wouldn't let them in my house, I don't have issues going to other peoples homes that have them (nor with exposing any future kids to them) and that I was having trouble understanding the OP's daughters POV on the bird issue since they weren't in her home. There is a BIG difference between dirt/mess and disease. Plus, there are plenty of people who would happily let their muddy dog run through the house and climb on the furniture and find it adorable, yet shudder at the thought of a parrot flinging some fruit or seed. I understand it too, why someone wouldn't want bird mess. Parrots are messy little beasts. We all have out own level of comfort of what "dirt level" is acceptable. But I find many dog owners can't accept that there are non-dog people. It's always been amusing to me What I can't understand is where someone who can look at a clean bill of health from a qualified vet and still believe an animal has communicable diseases.

Your belief that's dogs are dirtier than parrots is what is not rooted in reality. You fully admit that parrots are "messy little beasts" and that you can understand why people would view them as dirty. Yet you choose to have one in your house. However dogs are too dirty to be in your house. Thus, the conclusion that you believe dogs are somehow "dirtier" than parrots. Obviously one level of mess/dirt is acceptable to you (ie parrot mess/dirt) and the other is not (ie dog mess/dirt). The point being, and what I explicitly stated, the messes are the same.

It's a matter of perspective, but objectively why is shed dog hair somehow more dirty than molted parrot feathers? Why is parrot poop in your house (which can and often is carrying bacteria, it's not sterile, it's poop) somehow more acceptable, less dirty, then dog's paws that have walked on the ground outside? Why is dog dander somehow dirtier than parrot dander?

The objective evaluation is that all those messes are comparable. It's a bias, a perspective, a fixed belief.....which you are not the only one to hold. And absolutely some dog people think birds are hugely filthy and cannot even fathom how someone could keep one as a pet, yet they are fine with the comparable dirt of their dog. The bias cuts both ways. So know, despite my quoting and addressing you, it's not really you.....it's the sentiment that my preferred animal/pet is somehow cleaner than another's. They aren't, they are equally messy/dirty. One person just has more acceptance/tolerance for one than the other.....which is perfectly fine and normal, but it's still a personal bias coloring that person's objective evaluation.

And nope don't have to like or want dogs. I don't like or want reptiles. My subjective feeling is that they are dirtier because they live in humid tanks and they can have salmonella and the list goes on, but objectively they really aren't any dirtier or messier than any other living thing that I might choose to have as a pet....they just aren't my choice, which is fine. Since I know objectively that they don't pose any more danger of dirt than my dog or parrot or cat I can alleviate my own concern and realize that I woudn't need to bathe my kid simply for interacting with one UNLESS that was my reaction when my kid interacted with any other type of pet.

And yes, there are dog owners who don't give a second thought to muddy paws running through their homes....just as there are a similar number of parrot owners who don't bat an eyelash at their bird pooping on them, their stuff, their floor, etc. Why is one example somehow grosser, dirtier, messier than the other? Not all dog owners are fine with muddy paws, not all bird owners are fine with willy-nilly poop....but it happens enough on either side to be a regular occurrence.

I've belabored this enough, it's certainly not the idea that dogs are cleaner than parrots, they aren't. Nor do I have a problem with someone being more tolerant of one species' general mess in comparison to another species' that they don't prefer. My issue is with the sentiment (which you just provided an example of, not with you in particular) that one mess is somehow "less" than the other mess....when in reality the person's tolerance is just more for one than the other, the mess is really no different.

 

[Kiwibird]

they aren't clean in the way I tolerate indoors.

I believe this sums up everything your asking. I just do not personally like the mess of dogs and find it far less tolerable than the mess of parrots. And yes, dogs and parrots are messy in different ways. Why can I tolerate bird mess and not dog mess? A variety of reasons, but this is just gotten so far off the topic I think if you'd like to discuss it more we can PM about it instead of hijack this thread.

 

[Allee]

I believe we've gone past the point of hijacking the thread. The OP asked a reasonable question. I believe he's found a very reasonable solution. I'm closing this thread.

April, if you haven't made your feelings concerning dogs crystal clear to your satisfaction, feel free to open a thread in Off Topic.