new conure

[djdancer]

Hello. I've had a Jenday conure for about a year and a half. He is about 18 years old. My mother passed and left the conure to us. He is set in his ways and has really adapted to our way of life...

We bought a second conure (sun conure) and he is about a year and a half.

My question is this: Does anyone know how I go about training him? I do have him going to the bathroom on paper. He doesn't go all of the time but they know when they first wake up or come out of their cages then they have to go to the bathroom.

The new conure has learned to step up but when you try to get him back in the cage it is nearly impossible. He'll crawl down your back and hide so you can't get him. We also can't touch him. He squawks and runs.

He loves my husband and the older one draws blood from my husband so this whole think is quite stressful. I am disabled and would really like to spend some time with the birds to get them to trust me. Get back in the cage when I need them to and any other training that someone can think of.

Thank you!

 

[colorsfly27]

Congrats on the new bird. Im new here but I am training tony (GCC) with a clicker. He is around 2 years old and he is slowly starting to pick up on things. I have watched many videos on youtube and it has helped. Sorry I couldnt help any more.
Good luck!

 

[wwendy104]

Conures can be fiesty little parrots for sure! Ours does the whole climbing down the back thing when he isn't ready to go back to the cage but we are ready for him to go back and he will fight up a storm. He is also flighted so then he will fly back off and we do it all over again if he is really being a pain. What we do is put our back up to the cage for him to climb off then tell him to stay if he doesn't listen then we do it all over again then leave the room for 15 min and then go back in give him love and say good boy then go about our business as normal. Usually he has settled down by then.

I can't say that they settle down much as they age like bigger parrots do and they seem to be more fiesty if they are free flighted. Clicker training didn't seem to take on our conure but worked great for the African grey. Be persistant is how we handle it and we do give time outs if he bites but ours is a sweet little thing and loves to be cuddled all the time and is spoiled which doesn't help!

 

[djdancer]

I'm trying to have patience. My husband doesn't have any patience as when he is bit there is a LOT of blood. I want to stay on top of training the little bird and I'm sure the older one will learn something from that.

Where did you all start with the training?

 

[MonicaMc]

Clicker training, aka positive reinforcement training. Part of this training is to not get bit, because the only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs. Easier said than done. The main point of this is learning how to communicate with our birds in a positive manner, as you want each interaction with your bird(s) to be a positive one. The idea is to teach the bird to do what you want rather than forcing them to. If you force them to do what you want, then it can lead to a bad experience for both you and the bird - especially when the bird is put into a situation that the bird doesn't enjoy and you are trying to get the bird to do a specific behavior, which ends up with a frustrated/annoyed/terrified bird that bites you. It's not pleasant for either of you.

Barbara Heidenreich has some great videos and articles on training.
Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books
Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk

Melinda Johnson has a great Clicker Training Book
Birds & Other Animal Training Books | Clickertraining.com

Susan Friedman has some great articles online
Written Works: Learning and Behavior - BehaviorWorks.com

And here are a couple of bloggers with great information on training!
Living With Parrots Cage Free
Lara Joseph

 

[djdancer]

Where did you all start training?? What things do your birds do. I don't care much about the tricks but the step up, messing on paper, not biting my husband and getting along with each other is big.

BTW, does the clicker work on husbands too? lol

Thanks!!

 

[MonicaMc]

The tricks are more than just 'tricks'. It's about forming a bond and doing things together. After all, birds are active creatures. You can't expect them to sit on your shoulder all day or sit on a perch all day looking pretty for you. Teaching them various behaviors to perform gives you and your bird something to do *TOGETHER*.

It is through positive reinforcement that you can teach a bird to step up, step down, come, go to cage, go inside cage/carrier, turn around, climb a ladder, ring a bell, picking an object up and dropping it into a cup, waving, 'Big Eagle', shaking head yes/no, rolling over, shake/High-Five, head scratches, etc.


As you train various behaviors, you may find that non-desirable behaviors decrease... i.e. biting and screaming. You are teaching the bird to do desirable behaviors that will get your attention over ones that are not desirable. When the bird figures out that waving his/her foot, head bopping or some other cute behavior gets *YOUR* attention and screaming doesn't, guess what's going to happen? The bird will be more likely to perform the trained behavior!


Although I haven't taught my tiels any behaviors (well, Casey loves scritches and I have taught her to step up for scritches rather than simply demanding a scritch without stepping up, and she'll also fly to me for said scritches), my mitred conure knows step up/down, turn around, wave and come. I plan on teaching him others, too.



An essential tool for you to teach your conures might be targeting. Follow a stick for a reward. For one to two weeks, click and give a treat. The next week, offer a stick/empty pen/kebab/etc (something the bird is not afraid of). If the bird touches the end of it, click and treat. Continue this for one to two weeks. Once your conure understands that touching the end of the object means a treat, you can move that object just a bit so he has to take a step or two to touch it. Click and reward. Slowly increase the distance he's having to walk to receive his reward. Once he understands to follow the stick, you can cue him to step up onto your hand without biting, and eventually cue him to go back to his cage doing the same exact thing.

 

[djdancer]

Where do all of you find the information to teach your birds these things?

Warm wishes,
Denise

 

[MonicaMc]

Barbara Heidenreich has some great videos and articles on training.
Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books
Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk

Melinda Johnson has a great Clicker Training Book
Birds & Other Animal Training Books | Clickertraining.com

Susan Friedman has some great articles online
Written Works: Learning and Behavior - BehaviorWorks.com

And here are a couple of bloggers with great information on training!
Living With Parrots Cage Free
Lara Joseph

I used to train via flooding, which can lead to learned helpnessness. I used this form of training because it was the most widely used one that was recommended at the time - but that didn't make it the right training. I've since learned better ways of training... some of which I gained via resources I've already posted.

I first really learned about positive reinforcement from Karen Pryor's book, Don't Shoot the Dog. It really opened my eyes into how *our* behaviors in every day life can effect those around us... friends, family, coworkers, even strangers. This book I got for free and really goes into the "why use positive reinforcement" in training. It can be applied to every day life!

I later on purchased Melinda Johnson's Getting Started: Clicker Training for Birds. This book was the "how to" in applying positive reinforcement to birds. I don't remember where I purchased it from but glad I did! I even recently took it out for some 'refreshers'.

I then purchased Barbara Heidenreich's videos, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Parrot-Behavior-Training-DVD-Introduction/dp/B002HIYM5C/"]Parrot Behavior and Training[/ame] and [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Parrot-Body-Language-DVD/dp/B001GF18ZO/"]Understanding Parrot Body Language[/ame]. One DVD gave me the *visual* on how to train (it's easier to understand how to train a parrot when you can see someone else doing it rather than reading about it) and the other gave me some great clues on how to "read" - or rather, understand my parrots behaviors - which helps in training.



I've also read quite a bit from Susan Friedman, Lara Joseph, GoodBirdInc and Robin Cherkas (CageFreeParrots blog). I wouldn't be recommending them if I didn't read/watch some of their materials.

 

[Gizmomania]

I learned how to clicker train watching You Tube videos, too. One of my duskies loves it, and will work hard for her sunflower treat; the other one couldn't care less about it. So far Gizmo knows 'fetch', 'bring' and 'drop' with her purple ball. She won't do it with any other colored balls except for the purple one. Go figure!

 

[djdancer]

Thank you all! I did order the clickers. Not sure what I'm going to do next as far as what to order to help me learn. All of these things are so expensive and I do want to train my birds but I can't order all. How did you all start with the clicker training? First and most I would like to train the new sun conure to just listen and behave. He freaks out whenever we want to pick him up. I use the simple "step up" command and leave my hand next to the cage without chasing him around and eventually he will come out. I trained the Jenday conure how to poop on the paper outside of his cage. He's so good about it. I just tell him "do good boy" and he does. The sun doesn't want to hear it. He assumes the position but then is easily distracted (Something like ADHD). lol

 

[barw33zy]

It sounds like you are covered with the clicker training, I don't use a clicker but they do work. I have tried the clicking sound with my mouth and found my conure responds better to simple praise so I never bought a clicker. Every bird is different.

As far as the re-caging issue, I had a similar issue with my conure, did some reading, and here's what solved it. While I had him out, I would periodically put him back in his cage(a struggle at first), but then I would take him right back out. He stopped associating going into his cage with the end of playtime, remember your bird usually really wants to be with you. After about a week I did this less and less and its been over a year and we don't have those problems anymore. I still re-cage him from time to time and take him right back out, but very rarely, about once or twice a week. Good luck and remember to be patient.

 

[djdancer]

Thanks barw33zy. That sounds like a good idea. My main issue right now is once I receive my clicker where do I start?? We have the cage problem and then we have the touching problem. I really don't want him to be able to fly until he can learn to let me touch him and put him in the cage along with a few other things. My husband thinks we should let his wings grow in but I myself would rather have them clipped until he can learn and listen. Not sure the answer to this but if I can't touch him (yes he will get on my arm and to my shoulder when I tell him to "step up" but doesn't like to be touch beyond that) then I don't want to have to chase him around if he learns how to fly.

I'd love to have some feedback on this. TIA
http://www.parrotforums.com/members/barw33zy.html

 

[MonicaMc]

The click is not the reward, it is the bridge between the behavior and the reward. It is to tell the bird that what they did was correct. It is precise and clear. This is then followed by the reward, immediately.

Usually, the best way is to associate the clicker with receiving a reward. Click and treat the bird. Do this about 5-10 times, two to three times a day. Be sure to use a *small* reward as you want it to be something the bird can easily and quickly consume. If it takes too long to eat, and the bird eats too much, the bird can lose interest. When I say small, I mean something like 1 piece of millet, or a piece of a sunflower that has been cut up into 4-6 different pieces. TINY! You can use other rewards as well, such as nuts and dried fruit. Whatever your birds will work for! If they wont work for it, it might not be the right kind of reward!

After getting them accustomed to receiving a reward for the click, you can move on to targeting - i.e. touch an object, click, reward. Start with the object (pen with the ink well removed, a bamboo skewer, etc - something that doesn't frighten the bird) near the bird. You can start by clicking if the bird looks at the target, clicking if the bird moves towards the target, and finally by touching it. Once the bird is accustomed to touching the target, you can start moving the target away to further distances so the bird has to take a step towards the target to touch it, then the bird walks to it, climbs to it, etc.


From there, you can target the bird to step up, teach the bird to turn in circles, etc.

 

[djdancer]

Thanks MonicaMc. Do you know if there is anywhere I can buy the dvd's used or something? Do they have a site where people can buy used or trade items for birds?

I know it might sound foolish but I'm on a fixed income due to a disability and really can not pay that price for the dvd's although I'm sure they are worth it.

 

[MonicaMc]

The training DVD's are usually about $20 and up... I'm not sure where one could find them used, but there is Ebay and Amazon that probably have used/cheaper version.

I don't know if Barbara Heidenreich would have something along those lines, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. She runs Good Bird Inc and I know she has some things you can purchase through her website to be watched/read on your computer.

 

[djdancer]

Thanks again MonicaMc!! I am too new to all of this so please forgive some of the unknowing in my questions. I did have another bird already but he's much much older so I never thought about training him other than to teach him to do "good boy" on the paper.

 

[barw33zy]

No apology necessary. I'm sure I speak for many of us when I say that we would rather have more people ask questions than make poor assumptions. It sounds like you are a great parrot custodian and I wish you the best of luck with your training! I have also learned a few things to try from this thread, thank you for starting it.

 

[MonicaMc]

I agree, glad you asked! The only stupid question is the question not asked, or so the saying goes... lol

It's a learning experience for all of us, especially with how training, care and diet changes! That you are willing to learn shows your dedication! To say that taking care of parrots is easy is a misnomer! But we can always learn things to make caring for them easier!


I hope the clicker training helps you and your conures! Granted, they are brats! LOL Maybe you'll be able to make them into lesser brats!