New cockatiel

[MonicaMc]

Lord Triggs, I've also been nailed myself. I am by no means as amazing as Barbara Heidenreich or Lara Joseph.

My point is though is that you don't have to live with biting. If you train a bird right, you can also avoid unpredictable bites. Those bites that come out of no-where.


Bird nipping because it's bored? Then teach new behaviors! Encourage foraging behaviors!

Bird is grumpy? Maybe they need to rest in their cage because they are getting too over-stimulated by what's going on! Or perhaps they're just tired! You can try interacting with your bird for shorter periods of time. Or maybe less one on one attention but more ambient attention - i.e. bird is out on a play stand.

Bird is preening too hard? Again, could they be moving their attention to toys, foraging or other activities?


I actually did state in a previous post about biting. I didn't go into great detail, but it was still stated. Since I had already made the post, I didn't feel the need to repeat myself in full detail as per the previous post.


Notdumasilook, bird bites when you give treats? Can you.... drop the treat into a cup? Offer the treat via a spoon? What other ways could you possibly reward your bird without getting bitten?

As far as the "burrito birdy" method of taming.... I wish people actually were... I feel like many people still adhere to this method or would happily use it until the bird simply shuts down... aka learned helplessness. In other words, regardless of the outcome, they have no final say and give up.

Sadly, I feel like many of the main stream methods are similar... i.e. ignoring the bites. Forcing step up. Or any behavior that doesn't allow the bird choice.




How about if I were to say.... instead of using "main stream" methods of working with birds that uses force, coercion or dominance, why not think outside of the box? And figure out ways to handle your bird that doesn't have to involve biting? Methods that would result in desired behaviors being rewarded to such an extreme that birds *choose* to do the desired behaviors over undesired ones? Instead of teaching them what not to do, we instead focus on teaching desired behaviors. If need be, redirect undesired behaviors into desired ones?

 

[Notdumasilook]

I do not understand your line of thinking but I might be old and a little slow. Any physical interaction with my birdies could result in getting bit. I could avoid em all by just leaving them in their cages.... hence there would be no point in sharing my home with them. I could get a painting of a bird instead. Heck... one risk a protest bite just asking a bird to step up. Should I avoid that too? Birds bite each other and for a myriad of reasons.. and mine accept me like another (big ugly) bird so it does not bother me and doesn't seem to bother them. Im fine with you handling...or not handling your youngins the way you see fit really.. I just know I love and trust my critters and they me and I enjoy sharing my life with them. Honest Im not trying to pick a fight here. I guess I have a much different idea on how to be part of the flock than you. I do go the extra mile and make extreme efforts to communicate tween the species and never "punish" a bird... never have and never will.


have a great thanksgiving!!!!!!!!

 

[MonicaMc]

Any physical interaction with my birdies could result in getting bit. I could avoid em all by just leaving them in their cages.... hence there would be no point in sharing my home with them.

That's taking it too far out of context. It's more like, if you know what the triggers are to biting, then avoid the triggers, redirect the undesired behavior, or teach incompatible behaviors.


Bird bites whenever you reach your hand into the cage to get them out.
1.) Teach bird target training and teach them to target onto your hand without biting to come out of the cage
2.) Teach bird to come out of the cage before stepping up
3.) Get a bigger cage with a larger door


Bird bites while on it's cage
1.) Target train the bird around the outside of the cage
2.) Any time you walk by the cage, drop a treat into a dish as you go by
3.) Instead of reaching for the bird, teach the bird to go to you
4.) Attach a perch on the outside of the cage and teach the bird to step up from the perch
5.) Put a play stand next to the cage (with an easy way to get from cage to stand and back), then teach bird to step up from the play stand


Bird bites *you* when someone walks into the room the bird doesn't like
1.) Teach bird some simple tricks that the other person could cue the bird to do then reward
2.) Have the other person give treats to bird, especially when you are not around (i.e. start a relationship when not distracted by someone they do like)
3.) Have the person the bird doesn't like sitting in a room. Walk into room with bird. Bird sees person and doesn't bite? Reward. Step closer. Bird again doesn't bite? Reward. Step closer. Bird bites or shows any bit of being uncomfortable? Then stop and back off. No reward. Keep repeating desired behavior = reward until bird and person it doesn't like are near each other. Maybe in time, that other person could also hold the bird.


Bird bites when you ask them to step up, regardless of where they are at
1.) Work on target training
2.) Work on step up training while avoiding bites
3.) If bird wants to continue biting, take a break. It could be as little as 3 seconds! And try again! If bird still refuses, take a longer break and ignore the bird. Turn your back on them. Give it a minute or 5 minutes. Try again.


Always make sure that the reward you are using is something that the bird finds valuable enough to receive.


I listed *at least* three methods for each problem potential problem behavior. Some of the methods suggested can be the same across the board. It's building blocks to better communication between human and bird.


Here's a video of Barbara Heidenreich teaching a caique step up training.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kMHEi67YGk"]Step Up Training with Black Headed Caique at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]



A couple of videos with her working with a macaw. These videos are separate because there was a break in training between the first video and the second.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4DjiRJu5gQ"]Part 1 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnlHAHKmP5c"]Part 2 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]



But a reward doesn't always have to be food. It could be physical attention or even verbal! Maybe it could be toys. This video for example, a cockatoo is enjoying the ambient attention from the crowd.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22aAorUrwrI"]Stevie Bird the Umbrella Cockatoo with Lara Joseph - YouTube[/ame]



I'm not saying to *NOT* handle your birds, I'm just trying to say try to figure out ways to handle them without getting bit. If you know that certain actions result in getting bit, then stop those actions or find ways around them that don't involve getting bit.

 

[smbrds]

indeed your pic of Baby brings back 20 odd y.o. memories of a special lil tiel my wife spotted ground feeding in the neighbors back yard. Using very slow motions and every ounce of birdie charm I could muster I managed to catch him. One special sweet natured lil tiel that just oozed sweetness. Pretty lil face was about twin of your Baby.

Aint it awesome that there is a forum like this folks can exchange ideas and experiences of these wonderful creatures. In my birdie heydays there was such limited knowledge on them and much of it was dead wrong. I remember an authority on cockatoos recommending "taming " a difficult bird with sessions wrapping them in a towel until they cease to struggle. Thank goodness we are beyond that kind of bs.

Glad Baby brought up a nice story and moment about a tiel!! They have the most expressive faces, as do cockatoos!

Know what you mean. When I got Baby in the early 2000s I heard only living up to 15 (most are well into 20s) and no feeding pellets. Lots of advancements that most birds are living longer and healthy, but still fall in the hands of wrong people who neglect, etc.

 

[Notdumasilook]

Any physical interaction with my birdies could result in getting bit. I could avoid em all by just leaving them in their cages.... hence there would be no point in sharing my home with them.
That's taking it too far out of context. It's more like, if you know what the triggers are to biting, then avoid the triggers, redirect the undesired behavior, or teach incompatible behaviors.

No???
Sorry I still don't get what is so wrong with how I raise my youngins even more puzzled you seem so upset. Im sorry if you have a bad bitting issue with your birds but it simply does not exist in my home, therefore I really don't have a need for your advice or help. Sorry if you assumed that I do. I do think its awful sweet of you to go to so much effort though. It shows you care. I care too... that's why I go way overboard loving my family. When living with these sweet critters.. with so many variables there is not gonna be just one correct and loving way to raise the babies. So far so good with mine... thank goodness!!

 

[MonicaMc]

Not upset. You said you didn't understand and I tried explaining it in more depth. I've not had a bad biting issue, but many people on this forum do because they fail to read their bird's body language, and instead of avoiding the triggers to biting, thus teaching a bird they don't have to bite in order to communicate, they'd rather instead punish the bird for trying to communicate with them in a way that the bird has learned how to communicate. (humans being too thick skulled to see the warning signs that lead up to a bird learning to bite)

Of course, there are other reasons for biting as well, and instead of trying to solve the issue by teaching the bird what to do, they are only focused on teaching the bird what not to do.


Again, I was only trying to help you understand. It's great that you don't have any biting issues, either!

 

[Flboy]

I must say, using MonicaMC’s advice totally changed my life with my birds!
Have to admit though, being a bit slow, it took 4 reads of the brainstorming thread before the aha moment hit!

 

[Notdumasilook]

Well then we find ourselves on exactly the same page then. I try to avoid triggers but know ya cant avoid them all.. I don't punish a bird or take it personal if it occurs. When lil Booger got his wires crossed, which he often would (its a sun conure thing methinks) there was no need to stop offering goodies from my hand. As it turned out ignoring it worked out fine. Part of the K.I.S.S. method of dealing with wild critters. One couldn't ask for a sweeter youngin once we got to know each other! Have a great weekend