New Buggie has a weird beak

[bmx]

I just get a plug in version deliverred tomorrow.
https://amzn.to/2OKcXxC Let me know if this works.
We have carbon monoxide detector on the first floor ceiling. I want to get one near the bird cage as well. Hopefully we can get this resolved. I told the front desk about the beak. But they want to have the white bird examined since the yellow one passed away more than 24 hours. I will check with the vet tomorrow.

That should work-- I think that is the brand I ended up buying for them..The same model too.

Obviously a gas leak is still a hazard, so still follow-up on that

I called gas company and fire dept. They will check later this week. My buddy also have an indoor air pollution tester for HCHO and TVOC. I tested in my house and find both are little higher than the standard. HCHO is around 0.13-0.14 mg/m3 and TVOC is around 0.6-0.7 mg/m3. I am not sure if that might be the cause.

 

[noodles123]

What does his machine measure specifically? I am not sure what all of that means, but I have multiple hepa + VOC filters running around the house inside of non-ionizing/non-ozone producing purifiers (you do not want to run the ion or ozone setting around a bird).
Not all purifiers and filters same, and the filters that capture VOCs are more expensive, but maybe that could help? It can take quite a few to clean the air in a home, but if your levels are sketchy, even if you don't get a bird, for your family you might look into one.

The nicest one I have is an AlenAir breath smart purifier with a fresh plus filter (for VOCs, cooking odors, smoke, allergens etc)--obviously you cannot use dangerous thing just because you have one of these, but sometimes new furniture, floors, paints, cabinets, mattresses etc can produce VOCs in a home...The last person who lived here was a major Glade-Plug-in user and despite washing the walls and curtains and airing the place out, changing furnace filters etc I couldn't fix it. The purifiers did the trick. I also use others...Not cheap, but made a serious difference here. I only have 1 AlenAir- the rest were HathaSpace brand and much cheaper, but not as good. I am still glad I have them, but the AlenAir does the heavy lifting. The others just sort of support it lol!
The purifier in the bird room has run on its highest setting 24/7 for a year and the filter is still good. The indicator light did just turn yellow, so I ordered another filter...but they last compared to the cheaper ones. I used to have a super low-budget purifier that didn't do VOCs but I was replacing those filters all the time...like every 3 months for 40 bucks...

AGAIN-- filters will not save a bird from teflon or a gas leak, but they can help with certain issues indoors.

 

[fiddlejen]

Oh dear. I am still so so sorry about the birds but it sounds like in this case they may have saved your family from the slow (for humans) toxicity of slightly-elevated monoxide levels. So although it is sad, perhaps in some birdie-heaven they are being rewarded as little tiny heroes for their service. A thought to pass on to your little girl...

 

[bmx]

Both fire dept and the natural gas company comes in today. No elevated carbon monoxide or natural gas detected. So not this issue.
I am more concerned about HOCO (formaldehyde) and TVOC (total VOC). My HOCO is aourn 0.16-0.17 mg/m3 and the safe one is <0.1 mg/m3. Those are in MDF board and other furniture.
TVOC is 0.6-0.7 mg/m3 and the safe one is <0.6 mg/m3.
I am not sure if this will kill the bird or not but it is not good for human for sure.


After I open the windows for circulation, it drops to normal immediately. I have active carbon filter for whole house. I also have winix air purifier and they claim no ozone.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/questions/winix-tower-360-sq-ft-air-purifier-black/5689625

 

[bmx]

Oh dear. I am still so so sorry about the birds but it sounds like in this case they may have saved your family from the slow (for humans) toxicity of slightly-elevated monoxide levels. So although it is sad, perhaps in some birdie-heaven they are being rewarded as little tiny heroes for their service. A thought to pass on to your little girl...

Thanks for your advice. I just told her about this and she said she will see these two little birds in heaven since they are good birds. Great way to comfort my little girl. She is also making a checklist for the bird. Hopefully, we will find the root cause and prepare for it.

 

[bmx]

I finally get an email from the clinic.

It seems some of aerosolized toxin is the problem. I must omit sth in my household. I need to go through the whole list again. Thanks for everyone's help. I will report back once I am prepared for the next one.

 

[noodles123]

I finally get an email from the clinic.

It seems some of aerosolized toxin is the problem. I must omit sth in my household. I need to go through the whole list again. Thanks for everyone's help. I will report back once I am prepared for the next one.

Pam spray, body spray, perfumes, hairsprays, deodorant, air fresheners etc could l be related (hard to say for sure) . Aside from the chemicals in these products, they are aerosol. Thank you for the update and thank you for caring/sharing your experience.

BUT It says "Lesions are NOT" characteristic of aerosolized toxicosis"... confused

 

[fiddlejen]

I finally get an email from the clinic.

It seems some of aerosolized toxin is the problem. I must omit sth in my household. I need to go through the whole list again. Thanks for everyone's help. I will report back once I am prepared for the next one.

It seems to say NOT aerosolized toxin. It says inanition (lack of nutrition) leading to cardiopulmonary shock (basically the heart gave out)... all DUE TO MACRORHABDIOSIS.

googled: What is Macrorhabdiosis?
result:

Also known as macrorhabdiosis, or megabacteriosis, this highly contagious infection is caused by a mixture of yeast infection and secondary bacterial infection. It affects budgies mainly. It is difficult to spot in the early stages, incubating with no outward sign of trouble.
Parrot Diseases | Parrots and Disease | Parrots | Guide ...

www.omlet.co.uk/guide/parrots/parrots_and_disease/parrot_diseases

 

[fiddlejen]

I suggest asking to speak with the vet to find out whether they realistically could have caught this MacroRhabdiosis in the few days you had them (although from that definition I'm thinking, Not?) and if Not, then DEFINITELY make sure you let Petco know. Because (1) I'm thinking they owe you a Refund -- and for the cage too, since you will not want to use that cage for another bird since it's a contagious disease -- and (2) MORE IMPORTANTLY they need to be made aware as All their birds may be been exposed And they Need to Inform the Breeder as well. (I'd make sure you discuss this with The Manager of the store because it's too easy for someone else to nod and agree & not even pass on the message once you've left the store.)

EDIT: Looking again at the report, the comment states that "inanition is attributed to CHRONIC macrorhabdiosis," and you only had them a Very Short while, NOT long enough to have originated anything that could be called "chronic." Your Petco certainly needs to be made aware. The remainder of their flock has clearly been exposed and could be infected with this, and they need to inform the breeder (and the other Petco's!) as well.

2ND EDIT: Macrorhabdiosis has some alternate, more-pronouncable names (from the weblink in my post above): "Avian Gastric Yeast (AGY) infection (Wasting Disease). Also known as Macrorhabdiosis, or Megabacteriosis..."

 

[bmx]

Thanks a lot for the update. I was reading only the clinical diagnosis. I do not understand the rest. After I spend some time talking with vet. She clearly asks me to talk with Petco since it is a contagious disease from them. I am also going to exchange the cage as well. Also, throw away all food and disinfect the area. I should only use white vinaigrette and UVC lights. (Thanks for the COVID-19 and CCP, --> FU. I bought a UVC light on amazon)
Any other things I need to do? I will take a bird once I confirmed it is absolutely safe. This is crazy... I am going to escalate this to their corporate office.

I suggest asking to speak with the vet to find out whether they realistically could have caught this MacroRhabdiosis in the few days you had them (although from that definition I'm thinking, Not?) and if Not, then DEFINITELY make sure you let Petco know. Because (1) I'm thinking they owe you a Refund -- and for the cage too, since you will not want to use that cage for another bird since it's a contagious disease -- and (2) MORE IMPORTANTLY they need to be made aware as All their birds may be been exposed And they Need to Inform the Breeder as well. (I'd make sure you discuss this with The Manager of the store because it's too easy for someone else to nod and agree & not even pass on the message once you've left the store.)

EDIT: Looking again at the report, the comment states that "inanition is attributed to CHRONIC macrorhabdiosis," and you only had them a Very Short while, NOT long enough to have originated anything that could be called "chronic." Your Petco certainly needs to be made aware. The remainder of their flock has clearly been exposed and could be infected with this, and they need to inform the breeder (and the other Petco's!) as well.

2ND EDIT: Macrorhabdiosis has some alternate, more-pronouncable names (from the weblink in my post above): "Avian Gastric Yeast (AGY) infection (Wasting Disease). Also known as Macrorhabdiosis, or Megabacteriosis..."

 

[noodles123]

UVC lights are not likely safe...as far as I know, most produce ozone (but there are different types and wave-lengths and it's all fairly complex)... Ozone, ionizers and air "sanitizers" are not good for birds. They also change the charge on dust particles and cause them to fall to the ground, but when they are kicked up during cleaning (w/new ions attached), they are more harmful to breath in (post- transformation). That is why I am always telling people to not get air purifiers with ozone, ion or sanitize settings unless they can be turned off.

"Another potential danger is the UV production of ozone, which can be harmful to one's health. The US Environmental Protection Agency designated 0.05 parts per million (ppm) of ozone to be a safe level. Lamps designed to release UVC and higher frequencies are doped so that any UV light below 254 nm wavelengths will not be released, to minimize ozone production. A full-spectrum lamp will release all UV wavelengths and produce ozone when UV-C hits oxygen (O2) molecules.

UVC radiation is able to break down chemical bonds. This leads to rapid aging of plastics, insulation, gaskets, and other materials. Note that plastics sold to be "UV-resistant" are tested only for UVB since UVC doesn't normally reach the surface of the Earth. When UV is used near plastic, rubber, or insulation, care should be taken to shield these items; metal tape or aluminum foil will suffice."

^^ Lots of ozone producing devices are banned in California...due to their respiratory impacts on humans, let alone birds.

If this was PBFD, you are going to need to fog and do a bunch of stuff to kill it- The circovirus is one of the most difficult to kill and can remain actuve for very long periods of time (in carpet, furniture etc). It cannot harm people, but can be spread on them if it is on their skin or in their clothes/hair ect... and it can spread through the air via dander particles in furniture, air ducts etc etc.

Vinegar is not going to come close to killing a disease.

You are going to need to use a stronger chemical and provide plenty of time to air out etc...F10 SC kills a lot of things if used at it's higher concentrations and on non-porous surfaces...but not all, which is why it's important to know whether this was viral or bacterial, and if it was viral...what virus does she think it was?
Did the vet specificity what disease this is? There is a huge difference between how you would want to clean after PDD VS. PBFD. PBFD is extremely hard to kill and lasts for a lot longer on surfaces. Vircon-S is kills it, and nothing else has proven as effective...I would NOT use this with birds in the house (fyi).
F10 also is reportedly effective-- they sell a fogger that you would want to use in your home BEFORE getting other birds. From my experience, it is fairly safe on fabrics etc--- I have used it in the laundry and spilled it enough times to say that it seems not to impact color.

I would NOT exchange the cage-- I would demand your money back, but exchanging it could infect more birds-- they need to get rid of it.

 

[bmx]

Thanks Noodles123!
Here is update again.
After a month, I heard from petco again. No apology and they just simply told me to throw everything away without compensating me. They told me the breeder said no other birds have it and they do not tell me the breeder name as well. They told me these are common and can be treated with antibiotics. I am going to escalate to their management as well.

 

[noodles123]

Thanks Noodles123!
Here is update again.
After a month, I heard from petco again. No apology and they just simply told me to throw everything away without compensating me. They told me the breeder said no other birds have it and they do not tell me the breeder name as well. They told me these are common and can be treated with antibiotics. I am going to escalate to their management as well.

If it's "common", they have bigger fish to fry...UGh!
What did they say could be treated with antibiotics?
I wonder if you could get a letter from your vet.
ugh..so annoying...
Did your vet tell you for sure what he/she thought it was? I know you posted a bit about that, but did you ever call back with questions?