Need advice on my GCC.

[flash_oesc]

Hello,
I’m going to apologize for the long winded typing, but I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. Pictured below is Bam, my 5 year old GCC. He has taken on a ‘’new habit” of aggressively preening himself. He also smells, really badly. I have taken him to an ‘avian specialist’, but not an official avian vet (closest one is 5 hours away). She couldn’t tell me what was wrong with him, if anything.
This all started about a year ago, the smelling started before the destruction. The destruction started about a year ago (his friend Prince(the cat) passed away around the same time). We’ve tried so many things to try and help him out. He doesn’t do it from stress, he’ll chirp and tweet and whistle while ripping himself to shreds. He talks to us all the time. As I type, between beak grinding and kissing my cheek, he is destroying a tail feather while sitting on my shoulder.

We’ve changed his food to a higher quality (previously zupreem)
We’ve added Prime vitamins to his food.
New toys
Changed the type of cage liner (and change it daily)
Frequent water changes, and added a second water dish away from his food (he makes soup)
Changed out his toys, and have tried new toys
Increased handling/ out of cage time
Added a UVB light

I know everyone likely says the same things, but he is a happy, well cared for friend. We talk to him, leave a radio on for him while we work. We listen to his favorite music so he can ‘sing’ and dance along. He’s never been a typical GCC in regards to toys, etc. He generally only plays with us, or a select toy for a day or two before he doesn’t touch it. He enjoys watching the fish in the tank, and playing with us. The vet is supposed to look into it and call me back in a couple days, but we are stressing, and have been for quite a while. The vet has made suggestions (UVB light) that we’ve added, with no change. I assume (but am not a vet) that he’s over preening to try and rid himself of the smell. We wash his cage with water, lemon juice and baking soda. We hand wash his happy hut etc. in the same solution. Cage bottom is wiped daily, and litter changed. My Bam doesn’t like to bath. We’ve moved a few times since we’ve had him, and apparently he doesn’t like the shower or sink in the last couple places we’ve lived. He used to hop in the shower, or sink, but now only bathes in his water dish daily. We’ve tried misting, (he hates it) with aloe and/or water to no avail. Currently I’ve been holding him under the tap with warm water and gently rubbing his feathers to try and get the smell out, until he starts to disagree with me, then I wrap him in a towel to dry him off a bit. This is the only time (when soaked) that he doesn’t preen aggressively, and just preens like normal. I’m sure I’m missing some details, but I think this sums up my issue. Stinky conure, with an over preening issue.

Thank you,
Eric

 

[Echo]

A bird can also smell "stinky" when he is hormonal. Breeding season can be the cause of an unpleasant smell. Sexual frustration can also cause the over preening. Does he smell like this all year long?

The other cause can be sickness, so a blood check up would be helpful.

 

[flash_oesc]

Sadly he stinks all year round. He flaps his wings on one side of the room, and you smell him on the other. I took him to our Vet, and they offered to deworm (same medication as cats and dogs on the back of his neck, or give anti-depressants orally. Other than that, I wasn't given any options. I'd likely have to drive for 5 hours, and take a day off work for a blood draw. I'm not against doing it, I was just hoping someone else has dealt with this.

 

[weco]

Hi Eric, it sounds like several things going on here.....since you are so far from a regular avian veterinarian, why not talk to the avian vet about doing consulting work with the one closer to you.....that way you have the benefit of the avian vet's knowledge & experience without having to make those 5 hour trips.....

The odor sounds like a possible yeast infection that can be both inside your feathered friend & breeding in one or both of his dishes of mystery soup he likes to concoct.....

You mention adding vitamins to the bird's food.....why? A bird on normally accepted foods should not have its diet supplemented by arbitrarily adding supplements and/or other medications that have not been prescribed by a veterinarian. I would make a call to the avian veterinarian, ask if (s)he is willing to work with the local vet on a consulting basis, then contact the local vet & ask the same thing.....chances are that you will be able to work out an arrangement you can live with.....but whatever you do, figuring out the odor should be your first investigation.....

To try getting on top of the soup odor, you need to change & properly clean water & food dishes at lease twice a day.....

 

[flash_oesc]

Hi Eric, it sounds like several things going on here.....since you are so far from a regular avian veterinarian, why not talk to the avian vet about doing consulting work with the one closer to you.....that way you have the benefit of the avian vet's knowledge & experience without having to make those 5 hour trips.....

The odor sounds like a possible yeast infection that can be both inside your feathered friend & breeding in one or both of his dishes of mystery soup he likes to concoct.....

You mention adding vitamins to the bird's food.....why? A bird on normally accepted foods should not have its diet supplemented by arbitrarily adding supplements and/or other medications that have not been prescribed by a veterinarian. I would make a call to the avian veterinarian, ask if (s)he is willing to work with the local vet on a consulting basis, then contact the local vet & ask the same thing.....chances are that you will be able to work out an arrangement you can live with.....but whatever you do, figuring out the odor should be your first investigation.....

To try getting on top of the soup odor, you need to change & properly clean water & food dishes at lease twice a day.....

The consulting thing might work out. I'll talk to my local vet when she calls back, and find out if she'd be willing.

If it's a yeast infection inside him, what is the general course of action for that? I don't think it would be in his water dish, it gets cleaned on a regular bases. That's not to say it's impossible.

As for the vitamins, I was advised by someone at a petstore in Ontario during the Christmas holidays that I should be mixing his food in Prime. I can stop that.

I clean his water dish with water and papertowel, I do the same for his food dish, but much less frequently. His water dish is cleaned 1-4 times per day. His food dish is cleaned about once a week? He doesn't mess in it, so it's just pellets. I also have a seed dish for his 'treats', which gets cleaned out before it's used each time.

I really appreciate the advice, I feel so helpless with him.

 

[MonicaMc]

Vitamins should only be given if your bird is on a crappy diet to begin with, or you know which vitamins your bird is deficient in, even on a healthy diet. Otherwise, you might end up with vitamin toxicosis.

Yeast and bacterial infections can be treated via medications, which are usually oral. The medications can also be flavored and/or mixed with foods that he likes.

You should be using dish soap, vinegar or bleach to clean his dishes with. Although, if I use bleach, I usually rinse the object fairly well, then go over with dish soap. Never use bleach and vinegar together. White vinegar or Apple Cider Vinegar.

What foods is he eating now?


Another possibility is the preening gland which is at the "base" of the tail. It's lower back region, right above the tail and has a little white "wick" to it. Here are photos that another green cheek conure owner took of their birds wick.

At the base of that, below the feathers, will be an odd "bump". This is the preening gland, aka uropygial gland. It's possible that the bad smell is coming from the gland if it's infected. This also seems to coincide with the wings and it's near where the wings would sit against the body. Here's one article that may be of help.

Diseases of the Uropygial Gland



Just to be on the safe side, you may also want to have the feathers checked for feather mites.


In short, you need a gram stain, have the preening gland evaluated, check for mites and, if possible, blood panel done to check for vitamin deficiencies.

 

[flash_oesc]

Well, you've certainly given me a ton of information, and I couldn't be happier. Thank you.

The food he's eating is Hagen Tropican Lifetime Granules for Cockatiels. He also gets some mixed seeds as treats.

I will start using vinegar in his dish right away. I was fed some bad advice a long time ago apparently - I was told water only.

When I hear from the vet, I'll be sure to ask which of the steps you provided (In short, you need a gram stain, have the preening gland evaluated, check for mites and, if possible, blood panel done to check for vitamin deficiencies. ) that they are capable of doing here. I have a feeling I'll be going for quite a drive shortly.

 

[MonicaMc]

It's expensive, but do you have Harrison's available to you? Both Zupreem and Hagen have sugar as ingredients, Harrison's does not. There's also TOP's pellets, although I would suspect that they might be harder to find in Canada. Another idea might be Roudybush?

If you want to take it a step further (if you haven't already), use stainless steel dishes. Bacteria and fungi can easily get into the pores of plastic dishes and build up, especially if you don't clean them out well. Stainless steel does not have this issue.


Let us know what you find out!

 

[flash_oesc]

It's expensive, but do you have Harrison's available to you? Both Zupreem and Hagen have sugar as ingredients, Harrison's does not. There's also TOP's pellets, although I would suspect that they might be harder to find in Canada. Another idea might be Roudybush?

If you want to take it a step further (if you haven't already), use stainless steel dishes. Bacteria and fungi can easily get into the pores of plastic dishes and build up, especially if you don't clean them out well. Stainless steel does not have this issue.


Let us know what you find out!

I sadly don't have acess to any of those three brands(I think). I checked petsmarts website, and bigals website with on luck. I'll check my local pet store tomorrow, but we only have one store, and they don't carry much variety of stuff. When he was on Zupreem, we had to buy in bulk when we were in Edmonton, or Ontario for Christmas. That might be what we need to do to get the new food.

 

[MonicaMc]

That's what I figured, unless you bought stuff off the internet. The only Canadian store I can think of off the top of my head most times is the following one, and they do carry several brands. Seven plus hour drive, but they do ship, too!

North America Parrot Toys Parrot Supplies Bird Toys Swings

 

[SandyBee]

www.featheredaddictions.com is Canadian and in BC. She carries Everything and she ships. Not sure what the rates would be but I know she will ship by Canada Post so it might be worth.it.

 

[flash_oesc]

I'll be sure to get some Harrison's food ordered this weekend. I've also tried adding a stainless waterdish to his cage, but he wont go near it. He's always been a skiddish boy around inanimate objects. New people or animals, he fine with. Weird little guy. Takes me months of hanging new toys outside the cage and me playing with them for him to be able to be brought near them. I bought his cage a long time ago, and it didn't have proper dishes, so we've attached the plastic hanging ones, but I'll see what we can do to switch them over.

 

[MonicaMc]

Sounds like you need to do some target training. Reward him for going near objects he's afraid of when he does it on his own. Reward him for touching new toys. Reward him for pulling a new toy. etc

Here's a couple of blogs from Barbara Heidenreich that talk on that subject.

Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk: Get Your Parrot to Play with Toys
Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk: How to Address Fear in Parrots

Maybe it'll help him get over his fear of certain inanimate objects?

 

[flash_oesc]

yeah, we've tried so much stuff. He's weird. We can't find a treat he'll take, and be excited for, that he can eat quick enough to encourage the behavior. We use verbal cues for things like potty training, which he's pretty good at. I've tried pine nuts, sunflowerseeds, etc...but can't get him to want them. I tried using shelled sunflower seeds, but he takes them and tries to shell them, dropping it on the floor. (not getting any treat). The only thing i can get him to go crazy for is a raisin, but once he has it, he's done for 15 minutes...lol I give him small piece, but then he eats it and spends the next 5 minutes rubbing his sticky beak on everything. I have no idea why I can't use food to entice him. Until recently, he wouldn't eat ANY people food at all, no fruits, veggies, eggs...etc. I finally got him to nibble on some plain oatmeal, but not much. Juice, grapes and raisins are the only 'people' things he likes.

 

[flash_oesc]

also, thank you for the blogs...they are a good read. I feel like I'm making excuses for everything, and am putting up a fence, but I assure you, I want to learn...I've just been trying a ton of things on my own since we brought him home and he ran away from a laundry hamper on the other side of the room. I've tried target training with a chopstick, but he's terrified of the stick, and the treats...which makes it hard to encourage him to want it...haha

 

[MonicaMc]

Millet is often a favorite of many species! Given the information though, it sounds like he might just stare at it, not knowing it was food! One of my cockatiels was like that. Had a stick of millet in her cage for weeks and she never touched it! But once she saw other birds eating it, she then realized "Oh hey! I can eat this!" and now she likes it!

The target object can be anything you want it to. It doesn't have to be a stick. It could be your hand, a toy, or any other thing he's not afraid of.


I also understand your food frustrations! My mitred conure *loves* safflower seeds! It couldn't be nuts, or hulled sunflower seeds, but safflower seeds. Safflower seeds don't come hulled. This wouldn't be too big of an issue, if he could actually crack them. Since he's missing half of his lower beak, when he eats seeds (not frequently), it takes him a while to open it up. This thus wastes "valuable time" because a reward is supposed to be something that can be eaten quickly, so as to keep the bird focused. That said, he also likes banana chips! And occasionally other dried fruit as well.

With Charlie, there are times I'll train him using his own food! And that's pellets! You're not supposed to, but hey, he's willing to work for it, half the time! LOL Praise also works! Or attention! Maybe it's even a toy? Or going somewhere the bird loves to be!

With rewards, it's usually always best to have at least 3-6 different items that the bird loves and is willing to work for, rather than just one.

 

[flash_oesc]

When he was a baby, he loved millet. As he got older he started ignoring it, and now when it's presented to him, he puffs up and agressively attacks it until it hits the floor. He is very inconsistent in his 'likes' which also makes it hard. He'll be fine with something one day, and the next be terrified of it.
Anyways, I keep cycling different foods/treats etc trying to find something he likes. Banana chips might be an option? I like them, so even if he wont eat them, I will. I've read that dried fruits (including raisins) are too high in sugar for them, but I've also read they are fine. I find everything I learn is contradicted somewhere, so I try to do things in moderation. Would dried mango (I like that stuff too ) be something he could have. He's 'interested' in what we're eating, but wont go that next step. I guess I could also try using his old food, he used to really like that zupreem stuff, maybe he'll work for it?

 

[MonicaMc]

If you take two apples that both weigh 300 grams, and you dry one apple, the dried apple has as many sugars as the fresh apple.

If you take 1 lb of dried apples and 1 lb of fresh apples, the dried apples have more sugar than the fresh apples.

Does that make sense?



Some birds love mango! There's also papaya, pomegranate, or any other kind of fruit! And when I started using Charlie's food to train him with, I was using Zupreem Natural Cockatiel sized pellets. He's now on Harrison's.

 

[flash_oesc]

I'll be sure to give that a try, hoping I can find something he wants, be it the dried fruit or old pellets.

I'll be ordering Harrison's food this weekend, wanted to sit down and do it with my wife so we could get some other items for him at the same time. Between the bird and the fish, we do a ton of online ordering.

 

[tokensmom]

I am with you on the training/treat issue. I just recently started putting a bit of juice in a little dish as a reward. He gets a quick sip...it works for my little guy. Good luck with everything.