nature vs nurture.... bird behavior taught???

[jenphilly]

I mentioned this in the parrot documentary thread, but question for everyone about experience and/or resolution...

Ivory is an almost 4 year old bare eyed cockatoo we recently adopted. We knew she had been on a poor diet and we don't think she had ever seen fresh fruits / veggies in her life (she actually squawks at them like they will attack her). But, we've come to realize she has very little instinct or behavior to shred or forage. She likes to untie leather and will go to town on bird bagel toys, but has no clue how to forage or look thru things. I've been working on this by hiding her beloved pistachios in a brown lunch bag stuffed with some shredded paper or napkins, but very seldom does she make it thru all to get all the hidden treats. So we started with only letting her have pistachios that she 'earns'. And I was absolutely dumbfounded when this bright intelligent little feathered kid looked at me like I had two heads. I started super easy, showed her the pistachio and put in under a napkin. She would stand on the napkin and look at me as if I should get it for her or she would walk back to my hand looking for the nut. She even got mad at me when I kept showing it to her and covering it back up. She finally was made enough that she picked up the napkin and tossed it. She did eat her pistachio and I made a big fuss. We've done this a couple times the last few days.

But this brings me to my question and why I'm posting... I know many people like to work with their parrot to be well behaved, but call me silly, I want Ivory to be bird behaved, including letting her do her calls or squawks about whatever she has to complain about. We have taught her to not scream when she wants our attention, but we accept her natural call as part of her given, even if loud, voice. I believe that keeping her happy and prevent feather destruction its vital we get her into more bird behavior like foraging and such. Anyone with a rescue / rehomed bird that has successfully helped an adult bird act more 'birdlike', want to share suggestions or games you've used? And of course, any thoughts on nature vs nurture?? I guess I would have expected her to have more instinct, but now I watch her and really debate if many bird behaviors are taught to the young by the flock?? Would a lone baby bird not with a flock have as little chance of survival as those that share our homes???

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on helping Ivory find her inner parrot

Jen

 

[MikeyTN]

Baby birds learn to forage and feed by watching their parents or elder doing it. Like monkey see monkey do. Some are just naturally smart that they learn to do things by watching what we're doing. I have several of them that figures out foraging toys in minutes. Some are too smart for their own good. Allowing your bird to keep on squaking isn't the answer as they learn their flock calls and such from other birds so what they're doing is just basically screeching. Of course most of us let our birds have their moments to work on their songs that they sing everyday even though some aren't very pretty, but we don't tell them that....lol....if you keep on working with the same trick enough times your bird will eventually figure it out in time.

 

[Betrisher]

Don't give up! Corellas are really, really smart birds and yours will figure all this out in time. I'd guess she's probably been hand-raised and not had the maternal input that would have shown her how to be more birdlike.

My Galah, Dominic, was neglected for many years and, I believe, lost his inner bird. When he arrived at my place, he was silent, disengaged, immobile and had huge fatty tumours hanging off his front. The *only* things he would do were a) bob his head when you whistled and b) trip over himself in his efforts to bite me. Sigh.

Well, now he shrieks his lovely Galah call in the mornings and evenings. He has learned to eat pellets and is no longer convinced his nourishing veggies are poisonous. He can fly a bit but the tumours, although smaller, still upset his balance and lift too much for proper efficient flight. Best of all, though, he has learned to rummage!

I take no credit for this. I provided my Beaks with a large hanging basket filled with shredded paper, sticks, spoons, chewy toys and a few food treats. They happily burrow through the mess and pull out whatever takes their fancy. Dommie has watched all this and eventually learned to do it too. I can't tell you how it felt the first time I saw him try! He reached up from below and tentatively pulled a string of shredded paper out. He tossed that and went for another. Within moments, he was merrily ripping paper and tossing sticks and plastic bottle tops. I think I cried. LOL!

All this took weeks and weeks. Since Dom was a pedestrian at first, he had no choice but to sit where I put him. I'd put him by the rummage basket (or in it) and he'd practice doing what he'd seen the Beaks do. I found early on that Dom didn't mind shredding cardboard, so I gave him a toy made out of cut-up egg carton strung up with string. Now, he prefers it if I just toss the egg carton in his cage: he makes short shrift of it! Another strange thing that happened was that one day Dom fell in the recycling bin. He slipped off his cage and just plummetted through the swing-top lid. I didn't see this, but some time later came to hear a rusting, rummaging sound coming from the bin. There was Dommie, happy as a lark, ripping all the recycled cardboard and paper to shreds! This was progress, so I encouraged it.

You might try something similar with Ivory? You could give her a large basket or carton filled with shred and rummaging materials and actually put her in it. That might be all the stimulus she needs? Does she like bells? You could add in a couple of those whiffle balls with bells in them to give her something to search for. Stick long bits of paper or cardboard through the bars of her cage and see if she'll bite them. I use tightly-rolled junk mail and my lot make doilies out of them in very short order. Pizza box is another favourite. While the Beaks like most to chew wood and plastic, Dominic prefers paper and cardboard. I don't know if that's a cocky thing or just his personal preference. Oh, and one other toy he likes is a long cardboard fabric bolt that I got from my local shop. I drilled holes all the way along it and stuck in drinking staws. At first, Dom would just pluck at the straws, but as he learned to chew and chomp stuff he began worrying at the holes. Now, the big tube is almost gone!

Again, all this took lots of time and exposure. Since Corellas are so closely related to Galahs, I'd bet that Ivory will come to foraging just as Dominic has. Keep trying and do keep us updated with your progress, won't you?

PS. Pasta noodles and peanuts are other favourites for chewy things.

 

[Abigal7]

I would keep trying. In the wild parrots learn from their parents on what is safe to eat (one reason a parrot may try to take food off your plate) and learn how to forage. Now, if she never had toys they will seem foreign to her while a parrot tha had toys as a young baby will have the instinct to shred the toy or chew the wood on the wooden toy. Now some parrots probably take to foraging toys quickly and figure them out even though they were never had a adult bird teach them. Of course no bird is dead silent (and I would be worried if my bird never squawked throughout the day). However, they can learn they can do less loud noises to get your attention and that they do not need to scream their head off to be noticed. For example I walk up to Captain Jack when he mumbles, says come here, or makes weird non loud sounds.

 

[jenphilly]

Thanks for your thoughts and yes Ivory does love cardboard and wood. I have given her a wicker type basket with misc toy parts (I save all the hanging toys from the smaller birds and chop them up and clean them, and tie this and that together for foot toys for Ivory or toss them into the basket for her to sort through). I actually did give her part of a pizza box and she pulled off a couple pieces and that was that. My daughter suggested pulling some of her larger hanging toys and giving her some of the smaller ones that we get for the conures or cockatiels. Thought is something super easily shred might be more interest.

I think I will get her another, smaller basket and fill it with just shredded paper and such. I've gotten her the molly's purse type toys and boxes that have shredded paper, but she just does not show interest in getting thru them.

Tonight I put a bunch of toy parts and some jute I cut off old toys into a flat cereal bowl and kept it on the sofa with us while we are watching the F1 race. She prefers to be with her people when we're all home, so figure we should keep pushing her to chew and shred even when she's sitting with us. I threw in some cashews too and she did pick thru everything in the bowl.

I never thought of cutting up the egg cartons, but they are a great texture, so think I'll need to go put the eggs in a bowl in the fridge and see how she does with that Thanks for that thought!! My daughter just said she read some people give larger birds phone books or such to tear up. Ivory does show interest in trying to get to her college text books, so maybe I'll get her a small unlined notepad and hang it up in her cage (or put it on the sofa so she can 'steal' it!).

Mikey - I wouldn't call what Ivory does as squawking, its not the loud screech of a tantrum. I joke the green cheeks are way louder when they chatter back and forth to each other!! Tho I must admit, when she is home alone and hears the key in the front door, we can hear her 'squawk' her happiness of the flock returning

Thanks again for the thoughts!!

Jen

 

[GaryBV]

Hi Jen - I wanted to weigh in on this because when I got my male parrotlet he was a plucker and had pretty well picked himself over, and I want to encourage forage behavior kind of like what you are talking about. First thing I did is I bought one of those millet holders that I could hang from the top of the cage and filled it with nutri-berries, avi-cakes and organic millet. Basically whatever treat I had that I could stuff into that I would. Also I got some forage boxes that came with seed in them that I removed and put in the avi-cakes and nutri-berries, just because I like their ingredients. And one of my biggest successes was to get an ear of corn, and with a sharp sturdy knife, cut a piece off small enough to fit into a treat holder, leaving the corn on the cob, and letting the bird forage at picking the corn - all of my birds loved that (after a couple of days, you probably know some birds are VERY cautious of anything new in their cage). I also folded treats in clean paper which I think you said. Anyways, those are some ideas I had and wanted to share. Good Luck.

 

[torrap]

Thank you for taking this birdy into you house and trying to work with her.
Try to dance with her!!!
Check this youtube video
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaOvUeqmIWQ]??????? ??????? ??????? / Parrot dancing Lambada - YouTube[/ame]

Maybe let her watch it too.......

 

[henpecked]

Maybe your birds reaction to foraging is a by-product of "abundance weaning" that is so popular this day and age. To be sure natural weaning process in wild birds is much crueler,and some babies don't survive it, but it is a natural selection process that improves survival of the species. Foraging is a learned process, starving almost to death will make you a better forager. having everything handed(shoved down your throat) doesn't teach you to be a good forager,IMO. I think you are doing the right thing in attempting to teach foraging. Keep up the good work.

 

[jenphilly]

Torrap - Ivory does enjoy music and dancing... much to my husband's chagrin, her favorite song is Maroon 5 Moves Like Jagger. I am surprised my daughter has not posted our early dance 'sessions' with me in front of her bobbing around and arms flapping, we joked if someone walked by and could see in the window they would think I was having a fit of some sort!!!

Gary - Corn on the cob is one of the very few veggies she will eagerly eat. We are in PA so fresh corn on the cob season is past, but we froze ears in sections cut about 2 inches wide. I put them on the birdie kabob hangers. Try adding different things with the corn, but she will only eat the corn.

Henpecked- I totally agree with you! In the human effort to make pet birds as people friendly as possible, they are hand feed and weaned with a steady food supply... I just was surprised that Ivory did not have the natural inclination to forage, much like domestic cats still have that need and desire to scratch and dogs still like to chew on things. I was more curious if I had a real oddball of a bird or if this behavior was completely taught. But we're working on it!!!

I have joked its karma, I had the perfect kid who would eat anything and everything, so its only fair turnabout that my second 'kid' would be a picky pain in the butt eater!!

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts, I've gotten some new ideas to try and we will just keep trying til something clicks in her little bird brain. She's such a sweetheart, its not exactly a chore to have to work with her and in the long run, I know she'll be a much happier parrot.

 

[GaryBV]

I'm in Pennsylvania also, and of course your right about corn season being over, but I was in the Big Bird (Giant Eagle lol) yestereday and I saw white and yellow corn but it was VERY pricy, and I also see that you can buy half ears of yellow corn in the frozen section all year long. Considering that your bird isn't a plucker maybe you dont' have to go to the extremes to get corn I have lol.

 

[Birdman666]

It is ABSOLUTELY taught by the parent birds.

And toos are flock birds. They remain with the group as they grow, and more than just the parents teach them the ropes... which is why they tend to have higher attention needs in captivity.

In the wild they would be interacting with hundreds of birds in a tight knit flock every day...

Whereas Macaws and amazons have loosely based flocks and one other bird that they tend to become inseparable with...

 

[henpecked]

Lordy, i want to go off about corn. There's a ton of reasons your parrot should not have corn(even fresh) on a regular basis. IMO just fed it for a few weeks when it's fresh and local. Please don't freeze and serve year round.There's much better foods and remember "variety is best". BTW ,IMO if corn doesn't have worms in it, it's not safe for parrots.

 

[GaryBV]

I have found corn to be a very valuable tool in teaching my bird about foraging, and I also believe it was instrumental in stopping him from plucking. You made a rather grandiose negative statement about corn but you didn't back it up with any factual information. Also I have never seen any parrot or bird food that didn't have corn in it, from seed mixtures to pellets, and since that is so, I consider fresh to be better than dried. I also was using it as a treat, a slice of corn on the cob, certainly not a major part of a bird's diet. So 'go off' on it if you want too, educate me, but provide facts please, I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say because I haven't heard anything negative before about it.

 

[goalerjones]

He slipped off his cage and just plummetted through the swing-top lid. I didn't see this, but some time later came to hear a rusting, rummaging sound coming from the bin. There was Dommie, happy as a lark, ripping all the recycled cardboard and paper to shreds! This was progress, so I encouraged it.

Still laughing at this...

 

[GaryBV]

I did a search on parrots and corn and it seems that the consensus was that corn was just fine - in moderation. I would like other members to weigh in on this if you have an opinion. Also, while I'm on the subject, I"ve read some people give their birds yogurt. Yogurt! I thought all birds were lactose intolerant - which makes sense because ... well birds don't have milk. I'd be interested in what other members think of that too. I'm a big yogurt eater, particularly of the Greek variety. And, while I'm at it, I've noticed my birds by far prefer vegetables to fruit. I have trouble getting them to eat any fruit when they will easily eat vegetables, and especially soaked and sprouted seed which I kind of think of as a 'vegetable lol. I tried pineapple yestereday and the parrotlets sucked it up, but the Fischer lovebirds ignored it. I still give them fruit nearly every day, but usually it gets tossed out. I have read that I shoudn't feed the birds oranges - anybody have an opinion on that? I did break down yestereday and I bought one pomegranate at $2.50 for them (I still think of them as Indian apples - it's what we called them around here growing up). I've never given them that but I will tomorrow to see how it goes. From what I've read on here they can make a big mess with them and they can stain. I've also noticed that there hardly anybody on here talks about parrotlets, and that there isn't a special place for parrotlets either, that is a little disappointing for me. My parrotlets really look like mini-Amazons and I think that's what they really are. I know this post is hitting everywhichway - and kind of random, but these have been things I wanted to ask anyways. Oh and I still have no idea what a "FID" is ! I see people use that expressions all the time, and I'm just ignorant of all the initials people are using like CAG, although I did figure out that a B&G or BG is a blue and green macaw I think lol.

 

[jenphilly]

Gary -

Fid is a nickname like furkid, fid is just feathered kid. And CAG is Congo African Grey, just shortcuts

I don't feed any milk products, but I have lactose and gluten problems, so I know how it feels, don't think I would risk letting one of the birds have a bad reaction. But, I know many people do feed yogurt.

As for corn, its a debate in every group of pet owners. We had fancy rats years ago and there was a big issue about dried corn harboring bacteria if not properly processed. Fresh corn is debated because naysayers say the farmers use too much fertilizer / pesticides to grow the crop. The theory of buying wormy corn is that if if the worms can survive, the corn isn't doused in pesticide. But my logic is that all veggies and fruits we buy were grown with the same fertilizers and pesticides.... even organic vegetables are not truly pesticide or chemical free, its just chemicals that are made from natural products, which tests have shown to have the same cancer producing effects as synthetics. The only you can really know a veggie or fruit is truly chemical free is to grow it yourself.

We do feed corn, again, its not a main staple in the diet, but its been great for getting Ivory to look around for her food and 'work' for it!!

But, this is just my opinion

 

[GaryBV]

Jen thank you so much for your explanations, all very nicely said too. I did have a bit of a panic attack when I read what henpecked said about corn, so went on a thorough internet search to research corn and parrots because I was afraid I was harming my birds, and worse, giving out bad advice! My FIDs are doing just fine thank you lol

 

[MonicaMc]

I haven't read through all the replies.... but thought you might want to take a look at some links...

DO-IT-YOURSELF TOY IDEAS (especially the starburst one!)
Parrot Enrichment (including enrichment books)
Ideas « Foraging for Parrots



One way to encourage "foraging" behavior is to cover the food dish with paper or paper towel and rip a large hole in the center. Once your bird figures out there's food still in her dish, just make the hole smaller and smaller each time, until there is no hole!

Another way... place foot toys and small toys within the food dish, so she has to 'dig around' the stuff to get to her food.

Third way... using small pebbles or sand, create a "sand box" and toss in toys and food/treats. Swish some around so they are hidden and leave some on top.

Fourth - using (mini) cupcake papers, wrap food up, then twist close. May need to open some up so she gets the idea.

Fifth - stick food into toys! Buy or make a block/rectangular piece of wood and drill holes in it. Stuff nuts and such into the holes.

SpinaRoo Wooden Foraging Parrot Toy - StarBird
Hangitall Parrot Foraging Hanger and Parrot Toy - StarBird
Make Your Own Parrot Toy - Easy Enrichment | So Much Petential


Someone has also created a "bowl forager"
Great products for your companion birds



One online store for foraging toys
FORAGING TOYS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE