My Orange Winged Amazon is not feeling well

[Parrotmomx4]

Hi I'm new to the forum and looking for thoughts and/or suggestions. My 37 year old OWA has something going on. About 9 days ago (on a Sunday) he start acting differently -- sleeping a lot more, eating much less and being less vocal. Luckily we were able to get into our vet on Monday (curbside drop off because of Covid) but the vet calls at the beginning and end of exam. Well Ziggy has some sort of yeast type infection. He was given Baytril Suspension with Nystatin added he is to take it for 14 days 2x a day. He also had his blood work done to be safe. His Bile Acid # came back high 87.4 but nothing else jumped out at the vet as being too high. He still was only eating very little (for 2 days)and was losing weight -- so I start giving him babyfood greenbeans and applesauce by syringe 2x a day when he was taking his medicine. His weight went back up (after 2 days) and he is now eating better but differently -- only soft foods -- blueberries, pomograntes, greenbeans, scrambled egg and shelled pistachios broke in half. But he is constantly rubbing his beak and chewing on ropes and his seagrass mat just to name a few but obsessively as if something is bothering him. It is now a week - I see some improvement but not much. We have a follow-up after the medicine so in a week. Open to hear all thoughts and things to look for if anyone went through this. (He has never been sick before and goes to the vet yearly for his annual check-up) Thanks

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and your unwell OWA. Thanks for joining, hopefully better days ahead!!

Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic and often administered pending complete lab results. Depending on organism, vet may alter prescription to better target.

Is the chewing of ropes new behavior, has it become obsessive? The potential for ingesting fibers cannot be overlooked, and in extreme cases can line the digestive system with extremely harmful effects. May be worth discussing with the vet?

 

[noodles123]

have they done blood work or actual testing? That would be where I would start at that age-- an x-ray and blood work (assuming your bird has been with you many years)

 

[SailBoat]

It is truly great that your Vet did a blood test and that you have been doing that yearly in the past as your Vet has a clearer picture of your Amazon's Past and Current conditions.

May want to try shifting to a warm baby Parrot formula.

Your thinking of getting your OWA into the Vet is spot-on.

Target weight first thing in the morning prior to feeding and after that large morning poop. Keep a daily journal of the weight, you will see that it is commonly a leading indicator.

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Thank you - yes the chewing is a new behaviour and I have been having similar thoughts. I will discuss with the vet during our follow-up. He wanted to start with the medicine before moving to possible x-ray or ultrasound. (I am a little worried about the possible x-ray because of the anesthesia)

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Thank you. Yes blood work was done and the only number that jumped out at the vet was a high Bile Acids #. My vet wants to see how the medication goes as the first part of treatment before moving to an x-ray or ultrasound. (Yes Ziggy is about 37 and has been with us the whole time - we are his first and forever family)

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Thank you Sailboat. I have been thinking about the baby formula. I also always look at the poop which has been a little less (probably because less food) with a cloudy white urite (I'm guessing because of the medicine and/or infection) I have been trying to weigh more often as I know it is one of the best indicators - unfortunately and all on me even though Ziggy has been with us for 37 years he does not enjoy handling and I have allowed him to be happy in his own way and with that am aggravated with myself for not teaching him behaviours that would be very helpful now

 

[SailBoat]

The Avian Medical Professionals have been moving to activity using anesthesia for Parrots. There are a number of causes that are driving this change, lawsuits filed by Parrot owners's who's Parrots had past as a result of stress handling is the largest. And, the Clinics Insurance Companies refusing coverage if the Vet chooses not to use anesthesia is the other. In addition, the Vet Schools and Associations are also teaching the use of anesthesia. For the Avian Vet it is a catch 22 as they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Have and open an honest discussion with your Avian Professional regarding the use of anesthesia.

 

[Laurasea]

warmth is very important to help them heal abd save calories. 80-85 f , there are perch heaters, and different things available. I use the sweeter heater, availableon Amazon.

If his primary thing is a yeast imbalance tge baytril will make things worse. I personally don't like vets that throw baytril at a burd without a reason. Imho baytril isn't even a great choice if bacteria infection is suspected.

I have had a lot if luck and improvements with feeding small amounts of Greek yogurt with live culture and no artificial sweetners. 1/4 -1/2 tablespoon every other day when having an issue, maybe once a month otherwise.

Sinus pain can cause them to want to eat soft foods. I have sick birds right now. Feeding baby bird formula has been huge help. You have to play with consistency and warmth. Mine like thick like greek yogurt thickness. My girl with sinus draining i had to feed every 2 hours or so during the day for 10 days!@ one sick girl. Adult's burds crops don't expand like a baby burd. Smaller and frequently Feeding are better. Wuth my ones that were still eating I only did once or twice a day. If once I did before bedtime, really helped them overnight. Sick burds burn 2 times the calories they normally do. My best guess is yours can take 15 ml or a little more at a time, but first time offer about 7ml .

 

[noodles123]

sorry if that blood work was in the original post-- I must have been out to lunch when I missed it lol (hoping it was an edit, but this old gal aint what she used to be)ha!

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Noodles123 - no worries and yes it was in the original post (not edited) and as you probably also saw he has been with us for 37 years (first and forever home)

 

[Scott]

As Sailboat mentioned, use of anesthesia can be balancing act with frightful handling while fully conscious. For some procedures such as X-Rays, it is virtually mandatory. Type of anesthesia is critical, with Sevoflurane or Isoflurane gas being relatively safest though costly. Many vets insist on basic blood panel before considering anesthesia to reduce odds of hazard.

Having Ziggy for 37 years is a gift and testament to parronthood skills! Good to see you are taking slow approach and having dialog with the vet.

 

[Laurasea]

i saw your question in the other sick bird thread.
With sick dehydrated birds, you can cause impaction with the baby bird formula, if you make it to dry and the bird is to dehydrated, or debilitated.

So you start out with the formula a little more liquid in it. And smaller amount to see how things are moving.
I have a link that might help , I will look for it

This link has graphic pictures, be warned,
Also talks about increased calories needed by sick birds
https://veteriankey.com/avian-nutrition/

This is emeraid, ( I used baby bird formula by Kaytee) explore the site, had lots of good info. Talks about starting out with more liquid in food, and smaller feeding at first.
https://emeraid.com/vet/emeraid-intensive-care-basic-use-guide/

Sick bird supportive care
https://www.littlecrittersvet.com/sick-birds.pml

For weight loss you are going to go % lost not grams , tho you don't want any downward trend, especially in a known sick bird.
Take weight lost in grams ÷ by normal weight x 100 = % lost

This is the bird heater I use
http://go.skimresources.com/?id=162...tz=240&xuuid=04ad97ccd31c575a1530d68364c5f3d7

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Laurasea, Thank you so much for all the information. As you can probably imagine, I am extremely stressed and overwhelmed and am trying very hard to get Ziggy well. I truly appreciate all the info that you have sent.

 

[Laurasea]

Laurasea, Thank you so much for all the information. As you can probably imagine, I am extremely stressed and overwhelmed and am trying very hard to get Ziggy well. I truly appreciate all the info that you have sent.

We are going through the same thing. My whole flock is sick with a relapse of suspected chlamydia. Penny was sick first and she came so close to death. So I know heat, and food supporting care is vital!! Plus what ever the vet diagnosis and treatment of course.

I like the baby bird formula by Kaytee it also has 2 probiotic in it!! My birds really like it especially when thicker like oatmeal. But start out with more moisture as talked about.

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Thank you again. I picked up Emeraid from my vet. I hope your flock starts to feel better soon.

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Me and my birds are praying for your bird. Hope he gets better soon.

Feeding birds with a syringe is a huge problem, especially water. Make sure you're doing it right... a little here and there and boom, your bird has a respiratory problem now. (not being rude or offensive, just telling because I think I wasn't being careful enough when I had to give my bird medicines through syringe 2 years ago {he had a leg injury})

Perhaps ask your friends or family... or even the bank for a small loan if necessary (which I would definitely do...)

My lovebird was cured with bayrocin, which is a very... well, you can say something that's given when there aren't any tests involved. In your situation, even after all the effort, he should be getting better. I have no idea, knowledge or experience with how to cure a bird with inflated kidneys and testicles. Perhaps other people with more experience and knowledge will help you out. Glad to hear he is eating by himself now
Also, try to get him to eat his favorite vegetables.

Keep him warm... the room temperature should ALWAYS be above 20C. I'd definitely recommend higher since your bird is really sick.

Is he drinking normal?
What about his poops?
I am assuming his poops aren't normal because of hid kidney... though I hope he is okay.
Thanks!

Hi --- just saw this and this is not directly related to the thread but rather to syringe feeding -- currently my Orange Winged Amazon is taking antibiotic 2x a day and because of eating concerns (he was not eating much) and I did not want him to get too weak a few people suggested Emeraid (critical care formula) When I talked with the vet he was very concerned about this and asked if I ever did it because if you don't get it right in the crop you have problems. I indicated that I just syringe feed by the beak and allow him to eat it -- and am not trying to get it into the crop. So far so good. Has anyone offered it this way? (It gets messy but he is getting a little more nutrition)

 

[Laurasea]

Yes just syringe feed!! Dont try and put in crop!! Very dangerous only vets should do that I didn't didn't clarify!

 

[wrench13]

When I need to get meds into Salty, instead of a syringe, we use an old teaspoon with the sides banged up to make a shovel kind of shape and hold it in a downward angle to give him the formula. If your parrot doesn't like a syringe, you might try that.

 

[Parrotmomx4]

Laurasea --Thank you for all your support. You did not need to clarify because for some unknown reason I know we were on the same page. Hope your flock is doing better