Money, Macaws and Friends

[thekarens]

Labell, you give excellent advice! I couldn't have afforded our mac in my 20s, but I can now. I have no debt. Car will be paid off with the Sept payment, mortgage will be paid in 3 years and no CC debt. My spare change goes to getting our youngest through college, bird supplies and healthy food for all of us.

Like Mark, our company also chopped our pension plan. All that money down the drain. They now have a 401k, but we have to put the money in ourselves and there's not going to be enough for me to retire at 65.

However, I'm not complaining. My life is good, my health is good and I have the things that matter the most to me, my family, my birds and my health. If I have to work until I drop dead that's okay. I've had 2 friends who died in their 40s and I guarantee you in their last moments they didn't give a damn about their retirement.

 

[Kiwibird]

My husband grew up with a single mom and 4 siblings (i.e. dirt poor), and in my family when you turned 18, that was your ticket out the door (and no more financial help from mom and dad). Neither of us got much in the way of "direction" or "heres how to succeed in life" from our parents, and pretty much got throw to the wolves to figure it out on our own (and yes, I've been with my husband since I was in high school and got married young). In the beginning, my husband wanted to be a financial adviser, and I wanted to be a photographer, but ended up sitting down and figuring out how much it would cost for us to both go to college VS. how much more we would actually earn. We ultimately chose not to go to college (or to have children or deliberately take on any major debt or expense). We have no debt, but we have gone without a lot of luxuries, fun experiences, things everyone else has, just so we don't owe anyone. Its a HARD choice to make and tough to live so cheap but its the right choice to us because by the time we're 30, we will be able to put a large down payment on a house and have absolutely no other debt period.

THAT (making a choice) is what I see our friends and sibling and cousins of a similar age NOT getting- the fact that they have to make TOUGH choices sometimes because no one gets everything they ever wanted in life. No one wants to decide between option "A" and option "B" and then gets upset when they've spent money on both and now don't have any more. No one wants to prioritize their non-essential, luxury expenses either, and instead turns defensive that they NEED TV & internet at home or NEED a brand new car or NEED a new smart phone every 6 months or NEED a bunch of makeup/hair products/clothes or whatever it may be... well, no you don't. In MOST cases, you WANT those kinds of things and they make your life more enjoyable, but they aren't essential to life, you don't need them for your job (maybe a few people do, but typically a job provides what you need for it) and while they may be fun, nice to have ext... you could always cut those types of expenses if you *truly* want something else MORE. Of course things DO come up in life that are out of your control (an unplanned pregnancy, layoffs at your job, you break your leg and have medical bills/can't work), but for the majority of people in my age group (20-30) its a matter of their own poor decisions, not budgeting and this terrible sense of entitlement.

 

[Birdman666]

Like Mark, our company also chopped our pension plan. All that money down the drain. They now have a 401k, but we have to put the money in ourselves and there's not going to be enough for me to retire at 65.

There's only so many Walmart Greeter jobs to go around you know... and I need that dang shopping cart!

 

[Birdman666]

To put it into perspective- my husband grew up with a single mom and 4 siblings (i.e. dirt poor), and in my family when you turned 18, that was your ticket out the door (and no more financial help from mom and dad). Neither of us got much in the way of "direction" or "heres how to succeed in life" from our parents, and pretty much got throw to the wolves to figure it out on our own (and yes, I've been with my husband since I was in high school and got married young)...

Well, my upbringing was different. And I had a few more advantages when I was younger. And I expected to be able to pass some of those on to my daughter. But, those opportunities have been lost. The most I can offer now is a roof over her head, and food on the table.

I lost my house during my divorce. And have been locked out of the housing market since then. They don't give home loans to folks like me anymore...
I doubt that I will ever be able to own a house again in my lifetime. If you've never had, it's one thing. But to have and lose, you do feel it more. Especially when you are surrounded by rich folks who have so much more than they need. (multiple homes, multiple cars, entire housing developments in fact... )

I don't need any of that stuff, but the resources are there, and at least in my business, the rescession has been used as an excuse to cut the people at the lower rungs of the ladder, while the guys at the upper levels are quite literally raking in millions, and spending it on "more for me." (Plural!)

When someone who owns not one, but three multi-million dollar homes, has a fleet of cars, (including a brand new Mazzarati.) "Dabbles" in the real estate development market, etc. and has an EIGHT FIGURE yearly income, THEN LOOKS YOU IN THE EYE and tells you your pension is gone and you have to take a 42% pay cut...

Dude's makin' money. He could share a bit more with the folks that are earning it for him. He just doesn't... Stuff like that makes me angry! It's different if the company is struggling to stay afloat vs. I just bought a 10 million dollar personal use Gulf Stream... so I can jet set on the weekend. (Thanks for the pension money!)

Don't like it?! Grab a shopping cart!

I don't need much. I've been working since I was 16 years old. In fact, there was about half a decade there where I worked two jobs, just to keep from losing my house. (And lost it anyway.) But now, even working a full time "professional" job doesn't guarantee me that I will still have a roof over my head at the end of the month. My ability to plan finances went with the last pay cut. I'm back in survival mode.

And I have to listen to this guy rant about the high cost of jet fuel, and how expensive it is to overhaul Gulfstream engines... over lunch. Sucks being you dude!

Same planet.

Different worlds.

 

[Birdman666]

And now you've had to listen to me rant.

As you can tell, I've had to bottle this one up for five years or so, and it's now bubbling to the surface.

 

[Kiwibird]

Well, my upbringing was different. And I had a few more advantages when I was younger. And I expected to be able to pass some of those on to my daughter. But, those opportunities have been lost. The most I can offer now is a roof over her head, and food on the table.

I lost my house during my divorce. And have been locked out of the housing market since then. They don't give home loans to folks like me anymore...
I doubt that I will ever be able to own a house again in my lifetime. If you've never had, it's one thing. But to have and lose, you do feel it more. Especially when you are surrounded by rich folks who have so much more than they need. (multiple homes, multiple cars, entire housing developments in fact... )

I don't need any of that stuff, but the resources are there, and at least in my business, the rescession has been used as an excuse to cut the people at the lower rungs of the ladder, while the guys at the upper levels are quite literally raking in millions, and spending it on "more for me." (Plural!)

When someone who owns not one, but three multi-million dollar homes, has a fleet of cars, (including a brand new Mazzarati.) "Dabbles" in the real estate development market, etc. and has an EIGHT FIGURE yearly income, THEN LOOKS YOU IN THE EYE and tells you your pension is gone and you have to take a 42% pay cut...

Dude's makin' money. He could share a bit more with the folks that are earning it for him. He just doesn't... Stuff like that makes me angry! It's different if the company is struggling to stay afloat vs. I just bought a 10 million dollar personal use Gulf Stream... so I can jet set on the weekend. (Thanks for the pension money!)

Don't like it?! Grab a shopping cart!

I don't need much. I've been working since I was 16 years old. In fact, there was about half a decade there where I worked two jobs, just to keep from losing my house. (And lost it anyway.) But now, even working a full time "professional" job doesn't guarantee me that I will still have a roof over my head at the end of the month.

And I have to listen to this guy rant about the high cost of jet fuel, and how expensive it is to overhaul Gulfstream engines... over lunch. Sucks being you dude!

Same planet.

Different worlds.

Well, my husband grew up in a low income family but I grew up in a well off family. They just don't believe in supporting adults, especially when you don't want to play by their rules (and believe me, no amount of money could have enticed me into being obligated to follow my parents rules as an adult). They did let me stay until I graduated, but I had to be out the next day so....it was something of a "don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out" kind of thing. We did (and still do) get along better when I don't have to do what they say or live under their roof. I don't know what tree I fell off, but I don't think it was my families tree! There are few, if any points I see eye to eye on with my parents and other family members, especially with the "job prestige" and financial stuff:52:. I feel more in control of my life when I have less to keep track of then I think I would if I hd to PAY someone else to keep track of my "portfolio" and never *really* knew what I had. More money, more problems.

And I know the kind of rich people you're talking about too Disgusting, soulless, consumer-zombies that are shells of human beings:53:! They may have a lot of money, but that is about all they have (and they think that entitles them to whatever the hell they want, with no regard for anyone or anything else). It is unfortunate to have to deal with them, even more so to have one as your boss. I don't really agree with job benefits in general (I would prefer to see people earn more in the first place then spend/save their money wisely), but I also don't agree that when someone signed on with a benefit as part of the job, then worked hard and payed into it for them to just take it away either. I simply cannot deal with people like that. I'd rather be a Wal-Mart greeter and eat beans and rice than hold my tongue to those kind of disgusting pigs. I know you have a daughter to support and have to think of her too, but our life decisions have been pretty much whatever we feel is right because we can deal with the consequences of our own choices and don't have to be responsible for or consider anyone else (except Kiwi, and honestly, one parrot isn't *that* expensive to keep up lol).

 

[thekarens]

Mark, I think you'll appreciate this story http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/kentucky-state-university-president-gives-90000-salary

I would argue in this day and age internet is a necessity. I know for my son's school he HAD to use the internet for some classes and submit homework online. I have some bills that only allow you to view your account information online. They do not send out paper information. I have certain bills that have to be paid online. Obviously not all companies are like that, but I do have some. It's why I have chosen to have internet, but I don't have cable. I don't enjoy TV enough to justify the expense.

 

[TessieB]

You never know what will come your way. Keep your eyes open and eventually you will find what you need to have. And you never know....might not be a Macaw that steals your burned-out heart. Hold steady. Something will come your way.

 

[Birdman666]

Mark, I think you'll appreciate this story University president gives up $90,000 of salary to raise workers' wages | MSNBC

I would argue in this day and age internet is a necessity. I know for my son's school he HAD to use the internet for some classes and submit homework online. I have some bills that only allow you to view your account information online. They do not send out paper information. I have certain bills that have to be paid online. Obviously not all companies are like that, but I do have some. It's why I have chosen to have internet, but I don't have cable. I don't enjoy TV enough to justify the expense.

THAT would be the opposite of what I deal with. And I know that a lot of people have made those sacrifices just to stay afloat, and keep everyone employed. And that's cool, and sometimes necessary. But when you have taken pay cuts the past five years in a row, and your boss gets a ten figure payday, shows up the next day in a car that costs quadruple my annual salary....

and you ask for a cost of living increase, given that you've been cut five years in a row and are told flat out that "I need to get MY spending problem under control..."

UMMM... I paid rent and bought groceries... what did you just buy?!

Starvation wages are permanent conditions around here. Forget what they told you when you signed on.

 

[Kiwibird]

And now you've had to listen to me rant.

As you can tell, I've had to bottle this one up for five years or so, and it's now bubbling to the surface.

I understand. I bottle up a lot of things too and *try* to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing nice to say. Certain subjects are just a sore spot for me though. I know everyone had different circumstances and we all choose different paths, but we've sat down with numerous friends and family (at their request) these past few years to help them come up with budgets and find ways for them to cut back and save and all that. They still complain because they don't want to sacrifice or they don't stick to it and are still broke... Drives me nuts.

 

[Birdman666]

I understand. I bottle up a lot of things too and *try* to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing nice to say. Certain subjects are just a sore spot for me though. I know everyone had different circumstances and we all choose different paths, but we've sat down with numerous friends and family (at their request) these past few years to help them come up with budgets and find ways for them to cut back and save and all that. They still complain because they don't want to sacrifice or they don't stick to it and are still broke... Drives me nuts.

You know, I was never going to be filthy stinkin' rich and never aspired to be.

When times were tough, I broke down and got a second, and for a brief time, even a third job.

So, it's not like I expect something for nothing.

But like I say, a 42% pay cut over five years. All this time I've been told "hang in there, and we'll take care of you."

Then the boss gets a twelve million dollar payday...

Now they are making noises like, but there's no more money in the pipeline, so, no raises or bonuses... consider yourself lucky you still have a job! I don't know about you guys, but that kind of cash would be generational wealth to me. That's more than my daughter and I combined, can expect to make in our lifetimes...

I can't afford to take another cut, and still make rent! And excuse me but you guys just got paid 12 million!!!

 

[Kiwibird]

Mark, I think you'll appreciate this story University president gives up $90,000 of salary to raise workers' wages | MSNBC

I would argue in this day and age internet is a necessity. I know for my son's school he HAD to use the internet for some classes and submit homework online. I have some bills that only allow you to view your account information online. They do not send out paper information. I have certain bills that have to be paid online. Obviously not all companies are like that, but I do have some. It's why I have chosen to have internet, but I don't have cable. I don't enjoy TV enough to justify the expense.

Thats why I said in *most* cases. Obviously, in this day and age, some people do need internet or the capabilities of a smartphone, but not as many as who simply *think* they do or just want to. We went the first 4 years we lived on our own without internet at home (and I've never had a TV as an adult). We used the public library or the free wifi at the laundromat when we wanted to go online (including all our research/communication on finding Kiwi) or needed to pay bills and whatnot. My husband still has a "dumb phone" since he only needs to accept calls, but I did eventually break down and get a cheap pay as you go plan smartphone last year after we move because when I'm out buying things to resell on ebay I need to price check (but that's my source of income, so it was justifiable).

Maybe it's just the people we know, but theres more than one who complain about struggling to afford food or to buy their kid school supplies, yet they have the "ultimate package" cable, high speed internet, smart phones for everyone in the family on massive data plans..... It just doesn't compute how one could choose TV over food:52: and if they even kept one of those luxuries, they'd be able to afford what they need more easily.

 

[Kiwibird]

I understand. I bottle up a lot of things too and *try* to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing nice to say. Certain subjects are just a sore spot for me though. I know everyone had different circumstances and we all choose different paths, but we've sat down with numerous friends and family (at their request) these past few years to help them come up with budgets and find ways for them to cut back and save and all that. They still complain because they don't want to sacrifice or they don't stick to it and are still broke... Drives me nuts.

You know, I was never going to be filthy stinkin' rich and never aspired to be.

When times were tough, I broke down and got a second, and for a brief time, even a third job.

So, it's not like I expect something for nothing.

But like I say, a 42% pay cut over five years. All this time I've been told "hang in there, and we'll take care of you."

Then the boss gets a twelve million dollar payday...

Now they are making noises like, but there's no more money in the pipeline, so, no raises or bonuses...

I can't afford to take another cut, and still make rent! And excuse me but you guys just got paid 12 million!!!

As I said above, it may just be the people we know and know the inner workings of their financial issues. You can only cut back so much, and I'm not there, but I'm not doubting it sucks to have lived your whole life working hard towards a goal and have it taken away by someone who has more money than god. I don't personally know anyone who's been affected in that way, I just know people who have made stupid choices and continue to make stupid choices.

From my POV, I have encountered the people you KNOW own their home and car outright, KNOW do not have any dependents or a spouse, KNOW they earn a livable wage, KNOW they do not have any debt to speak of and have sat down multiple times and spent many hours trying to help them work out a budget and find all these ways they can save and live comfortably (better then you are), yet they STILL have no money, STILL ask to borrow money you KNOW they will never pay back for things you worked out for them to be able to afford in the budget you helped them with at their request... OR who live on the fly, refuse to budget or think before they spend or sacrifice any luxury and ask to borrow money they'll never pay back OR the ones who can't seem to figure out if you don't include the $300 you waste every month on clothes and makeup and going out to the bars, you are going to continually come up short on your rent and food and kids necessities....Meanwhile, you scrimp and sacrifice and save, one tends to get a bit bitter and it's hard to look outside the box of the people you know and who drive you crazy.

Edit: This is going to be my last post on this topic, but I hope it sheds some light on where MY point of view comes from. I know I have far from mainstream and very controversial views on this topic and can be quite "aggressive" defending my POV, so in keeping with the friendly and fun atmosphere of this forum, I respectfully bow out of this one NOW Hope I have no offended anyone along the way, as that was NOT my intention

 

[thekarens]

You're right, I know people like that too, people with 2 incomes, no kids, no pets a good job and yet they never have money and are always looking for a handout or a way to scam someone else. I can see both sides.

 

[95talongirl]

I am one of those people who fell for the "you have to go to college" ploy.


Now I have a crap load of student debt, a piece of paper, but luckily a job that lets me pay those back. Which is also a job I could have had without even going to school. That's the irony of it all. It pays more than the job I had which actually was using my degree. Makes zero sense.

However, it's not enough money to have a newer car, or a house, or any of that. Luckily, I have a serious boyfriend who does have a good job so we can make a good home for the birds and such.

I feel terrible for all those that I graduated with, and struggling to pay that back with their "competitive" rate job at $10/hr. When you have a crushing student loan debt of 500-900$/month, that leave very little room for anything else.

IMO, if this country TRULY cared about education and priming the next generation, college would not be so damn expensive. It also would not be a money-making venture (loan companies employing the same tactics as the predatory loans for housing), or so focused on sports. Some of the deans make over a million dollars a year! But I digress. I may be a little bitter about the whole situation, but it could always be worse.

I actually advise kids against college. Tell them to check out trade schools instead, or if then absolutely feel the need to go: to check out a community college.

 

[Birdman666]

I'm not looking for a handout from anyone!

I'd just like my salary to go back to something approximating what I made at ENTRY LEVEL 15 years ago (minus the benefits of course!)... My entry level salary 15 years ago would be about a $10,000 per year increase over my present salary... the cuts have been that severe! (So I have cumulatively lost $50,000 over my ENTRY level salary over the past five years, to say nothing of losing every raises I had ever earned by working my butt off for the ten years prior to the cuts.) That's pretty significant where those above me have gained, continuously, through that time period, and are simply taking advantage of the unemployment figures... (Fire the older workers, and bring in someone who works cheaper! Entry level folks are now making $9.00 to $10.00 per hour... )

I survived not getting my job cut, and I have friends who were long term unemployed for 3+ years, who lost everything... so I guess I should count my blessings, and offer to wax my boss' shiny new car...

 

[Birdman666]

Waking up and feeling every bone in your body...well that's the down side!

I FEEL YOUR PAIN! Trust me! I do.

I was pretty reckless as a young adult. (Extreme sports, adrenalyn junkie.)

I'm reminded of that old joke: I knew I was going to end up sitting in a rocking chair someday, but nobody told me that just sitting there was gonna hurt!

 

[Birdman666]

IMO, if this country TRULY cared about education and priming the next generation, college would not be so damn expensive. It also would not be a money-making venture (loan companies employing the same tactics as the predatory loans for housing)

That's one of those things that gets me too. NOT ONLY are predatory loans allowed - BUT THEY ARE NON-DISCHARGABLE IN BANKRUPTCY... So, you're pretty much stuck with those for your entire life - even where these places are bleeding you dry at unconscionable interest rates!

It shouldn't be legal.

I get not sticking the loan companies with the cost of your education... but... if we are going to do that, then we should be limiting interest rates, and structuring them around what a person can actually reasonably pay back when they graduate.

I was fortunate in that I went to a State School, was able to work my way through college, and didn't take on a lot of student loan date, and had that paid off within 5 years...

My daughter's generation? How will they ever buy a home, or afford a family... ?! It's crazy to come fresh out of school unemployed with an $80,000 loan debt!!!

 

[Birdman666]

I am one of those people who fell for the "you have to go to college" ploy.

My parents beat that one into me... my degree got me in the door, but then the door shut, and the pay scale got cut...

I feel trapped at the moment, and in truth, have for many years now. I don't know where to go next, and there doesn't even seem to be any resources for this at my level. I know I can't keep going backwards, but where is my forward?! I don't even see it anymore!

Lower level people get help. Upper level people can pay for help.

Middle class/working poor? Not so much...

 

[ruffledfeathers]

I am laughing at this topic somehow. It's not 'funny' really but I guess part of me just has to laugh....at the disillusionment of adult reality.


I have always been pretty solidly "middle class". We never had a lot of money or stuff but we were never without what we needed. But I was actually "the smart one" in my family, school came easy to me, and I grew up in a region where I was constantly among rather well-off families. (DeLorean used to go to my church and we sat a few seats from each other.....plenty of big money all around me in my youth). I think I believed that if you are smart and work hard, it just "happens". Like you magically have a "good job" and make money and buy a Maserati. HAHAHA you naïve kid.


Yeah so many years of working, in my 40s, trying to be as practical as possible and feeling LUCKY with good health and job opportunities and I am STILL just a middle class chick scraping by, trying to pay off debts. Such is life.