Making friends with a Senegal

[cindys6436]

I am fostering a Senegal. I have had a lot of birds in my life and currently have two caiques and a bunch of linnies. I got the Senegal a couple weeks ago. She was at the rescue (a private home with a lot of other rescue birds there as well) for about three months. Before that she was with an older couple. There werre two Senegals but they didn't care for each other. The husband died and his bird was rehomed. The wife, who is 85, gave her bird, Chiquita, to the rescue.

Chiquita is not what I would consider aggressive but she will lunge at us (me and my 22-year-old daughter) if we put our hands near her. She has flown off her cage a couple times when startled and she will step on our fingers to let us take her back to her cage.

I wanted to start clicker training her but I can't find a treat that she will take from a spoon or measuring cup (I don't want to risk a bite as I don't want her to get any "practice" biting).

Is there anything as far as treats that most Senegals seem partial to? I'd really like to get her more comfortable with people in order to help her find a good permanent home.

 

[Birdman666]

Little bird, large attitude. I've seen these little guys chase full grown adults around the room. (Here's a clue: Don't Run! He won't do it anymore.) If he gets
bite-y/chase-y just tell him to knock it off, and ignore it. (I tend to introduce the little guy to Mr. Towel at that point... Mr. Towel will not be happy if you try and bite me.)

If it doesn't work on you they stop. (They are a lot like macaws that way.) If you run, they OWN you...

I used cashew nuts broken up into bite sized pieces as a training treat.

 

[cindys6436]

Thanks, I'll try some different nuts.

I use positive reinforcement training so toweling won't work for me. She doesn't chase us though or come after us. She only lunges if we put things to close to her for comfort. It seems fear based more than aggressive.

She really seems to like it when I talk to her. She turns her head almost upside down listening. I think she'd enjoy the attention that comes with clicker training if I can just find something that really motivates her!

 

[ShellyBorg]

My Demon does not work for treats, i have not found one he likes! I went ahead and started to train him to touch. He had watched others do it. Believe it or not he LIVES to bite that stick! LOL Its not a full out attack, just a simple and fast bite then he releases so I can ask him to touch it somewhere else. He will do this for a hour if I let him!

 

[cindys6436]

I'm sure Chiquita would do that - bite a stick - but I wish I could reward her for it! I guess the biting is its own reward, but I don't know how to move on from there since I won't want her to bite everything I put in front of her (like my hand!)

 

[meadiva]

My red belly reallly loves pumpkin seeds, either shelled or in shell. He also loves almonds and cashews.

 

[mtdoramike]

You are going to have to risk a bite. The best thing you can do when anyone of you get bitten is not to react to the bite. If you can remember, push your finger into her when she bites, it will put her off balance and she will not get the reaction she was hoping for.

Senegals have a big attitude in a little body and aren't afraid to show it. Mine loves peanuts. She doesn't so much eat the peanut as she does shred it. I would also recommend having her wings clipped. This will make her more reliant on you to get from point A to point B.

 

[SoCalWendy]

The only thing mine really likes is safflower and sunflower seeds. But if she is nervous forget about it. Birds bite for a reason, and will give clear body language as a signal first. If we fail to read their body language we might just get bit.

 

[MonicaMc]

Currently working with Jayde (red throated conure) and I really haven't used much in regards to rewarding her with treats. Haven't even tried a clicker on her, even though I found both of my clickers!

She's gone from biting to draw blood and can't be handled (she'd bite or retreat) but loves scritches to readily stepping up on hands and arms then making a quick run for my shoulder. She wont step up from inside her cage, only from the outside, and wont step up from my shoulder where she prefers to cling to. However, it's not difficult to get her off my shoulder, either! If I lean towards something that she's ok standing on (i.e. furniture or her chair) then she'll get off. Not overly concerned about this because it is something that we *CAN* work on. I'm more interested in her comfort levels and confidence rising than whether or not she can easily step up from any place at the moment.

It's been almost 4 months since she's been here, too. At first, I just wheeled her cage around the house so she could be with me without having to be on me and without having to leave the safety and comfort of her cage. Once she got brave enough to climb onto my shoulder (but still terrified of hands and arms) I then put a perch on the outside the cage which helped to allow her to have the choice to climb up or not. Once she got more comfortable being on my shoulder, it was then taking her away from her cage for short periods of time and returning her to it whenever she felt afraid or uncomfortable. Once she started getting more comfortable with that, *THEN* we worked on stepping onto my arms and hands to get to my shoulder.

In this process, I did give her head scritches while bringing my arm and hand closer to her body. If she bit, I'd stop giving her scritches and remove my arm. If she'd allow me to give her scritches again, I'd bring back my arm. Associate good things with my arm so she'd be less afraid of them.


So far, this has been working great! I've been going at her pace and trying not to push her too much, if at all.

 

[cindys6436]

Thanks everyone. I'm not going to "take the bite" as it is not a philosophy I subscribe to. She thinks she has a perfectly valid reason to bite, and I want her to know I am not going to force her to do anything but she will get something she wants (whatever that might be) if she makes the choice to do what I'd like her to do.

Her wings are clipped, although I do not clip my own birds' wings. She is not causing me any problems - I just want her to be more comfortable with us.

 

[MonicaMc]

Cindy, I feel exactly the same way! That's the reason why I didn't force her off her cage and instead wheeled the cage around the house with me! It's why it's taken three months to get her comfortable with hands and arms enough to step up on them from the cage door/side/top but not yet from inside the cage or from my shoulder. I'm sure I could have done this quicker, although I am away from home during the day thanks to work, so haven't been able to handle her quite as much as I'd like to.

Jayde came to me clipped but I've been allowing her flights to grow out. She's the only bird here who has clipped wings and only now (over 3 months of having her) is she starting to be able to fly again. She wont fly to me from her cage but she did from another cage (not sure why she wanted on it, but she is getting braver, so a little more willing to explore things that are not her cage or me) and she'll fly to me, or at least attempt to, if she's on a chair, couch or other object that she's not comfortable being on unless I'm there, too. Can't wait for her to be able to fly with confidence!

 

[SoCalWendy]

Thanks everyone. I'm not going to "take the bite" as it is not a philosophy I subscribe to. She thinks she has a perfectly valid reason to bite, and I want her to know I am not going to force her to do anything but she will get something she wants (whatever that might be) if she makes the choice to do what I'd like her to do.

Her wings are clipped, although I do not clip my own birds' wings. She is not causing me any problems - I just want her to be more comfortable with us.

If it does happen though it's better to push in to it rather then pulling away. This will knock her off balance, not what she expects. Try and allow her to do some things on her terms, so your not flooding her, which does not create trust. If you show her that you respect her space and go slow, she will eventually respond.

I remember when I had gotten Rio. I diligently worked with her everyday. After about 6 weeks of her not responding, I felt like she was never going to like me, or allow me to touch her. She is not a snuggler, but it finally clicked with her. The more I did "hands off" things like teaching her to turn around or to touch the stick and treating (these things did not make her nervous) then one day I was allowed to touch her beak, then her head, neck, wings, and then her feet. She still doesn't like to snuggle (which I wish she would) but I am glad that she has finally responded to all my hard work. I'm sure yours will too.

 

[mtdoramike]

The statement "Birds Bite for a reason" is true for most species, but I have found with most Senegals that I have been around and from quite a few Senegal owners that this statement doesn't really fit Senegals. Like Tiki, she will be sweet as sugar one minute sitting on my hand and all of a sudden, she will reach down and give me a good pinch. Yes, some times she will show aggression signs if you go to pick her up and she doesn't want to go, but then there are those times when you could be petting her and she just all of a sudden reaches around and nails you.

There's also those times when she is sitting on her cage and you go to give her a treat and she lunges at your hand knocking the food out of it, but then other times she readily takes it. Senegals are like teenagers, very fickled.

 

[cindys6436]

I guess what I am saying is that whether I agree with her reason to bite, in Chiquita's mind, she has a good reason - whether it's just because it's fun for her or something else. But I have not put my hand close enough to get bitten. She has stepped up twice without biting when she got startled and flew to the ground.

I would definitely try not to react if I did get bit, but that is not easy for me to do!

I am letting her go at her own pace. She's only been here a few weeks and has been through a couple major changes recently so I just want her to be able to settle in right now.

 

[Birdman666]

The statement "Birds Bite for a reason" is true for most species, but I have found with most Senegals that I have been around and from quite a few Senegal owners that this statement doesn't really fit Senegals. Like Tiki, she will be sweet as sugar one minute sitting on my hand and all of a sudden, she will reach down and give me a good pinch. Yes, some times she will show aggression signs if you go to pick her up and she doesn't want to go, but then there are those times when you could be petting her and she just all of a sudden reaches around and nails you.

There's also those times when she is sitting on her cage and you go to give her a treat and she lunges at your hand knocking the food out of it, but then other times she readily takes it. Senegals are like teenagers, very fickled.

I always called that SENNI-TUDE!

They are a unique species, in both good ways and bad ways...

A bit on the feisty side.

 

[MonicaMc]

IMO, it's better to avoid a bite than take a bite. The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs.

 

[Birdman666]

IMO, it's better to avoid a bite than take a bite. The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs.

If I subscribed to this statement, then my Red Lored Amazon, and about half the birds I've rehabbed over the years would still be untrained and languishing unloved in a cage somewhere...

In training untrained and/or abused birds, it is sometimes necessary. (Not Fun, mind you... but necessary!)

Sometimes Mr. Towel is necessary. Sometimes you need to show them that you're tough enough to handle the bite, AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE EXPLAINING YOURSELF TO MR. TOWEL WHEN I'M ANGRY...

 

[MonicaMc]

Although it's about dogs, the same applies to parrots.


Positive Training versus being Dominant or Alpha - Dog Training - The American Dog Magazine


De-Bunking the "Alpha Dog" Theory - Whole Dog Journal Article

 

[cindys6436]

IMO, it's better to avoid a bite than take a bite. The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs.

If I subscribed to this statement, then my Red Lored Amazon, and about half the birds I've rehabbed over the years would still be untrained and languishing unloved in a cage somewhere...

In training untrained and/or abused birds, it is sometimes necessary. (Not Fun, mind you... but necessary!)

Sometimes Mr. Towel is necessary. Sometimes you need to show them that you're tough enough to handle the bite, AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE EXPLAINING YOURSELF TO MR. TOWEL WHEN I'M ANGRY...

Everyone has their own methods but positive reinforcement has worked best with all my birds. When working with birds, you are probably going to get bitten at some point but I do everything in my power to avoid being bitten by letting my bird make the choices. Do they become spoiled bossy brats? It has not happened so far. If I have a bird that truly does not want to interact with humans, I let that bird be who he is - put him with other birds and make sure he has lots of enrichment in his life. I have never let one languish unloved in a cage.

As an update on the bird I started this post about - when she lunged at me I took it as her way of communicating that she was not ready to let me too close. I continued to talk to her and sing to her often. I rested my arm on her cage at a distance she was comfortable with. I discovered she loves banana chips and got to the point where she would take them gently from the palm of my hand or fingers. Yesterday we had our first breakthrough when she put one foot on my arm, removed it, and then did the same with the other foot. Last night she offered her foot to step for the first time. This morning she stepped up readily and sat on the couch with me. When I put her back on her cage, she let me give her head scritches. This little girl has responded fantastically to positive reinforcement and being allowed to make the choice of what she's ready for, and I have not been bitten.

I have to say I thoroughly disagree with "proving who's boss" or getting angry with an animal (or even letting the animal think you're angry). I want my birds to cooperate with me because they trust me, not because they are afraid of what will happen if I'm angry and not because I try to force them. I feel privileged that this girl has decided to place her trust in me.

 

[MonicaMc]

Cindy, you're doing great!!!! Well done!

Even if some would consider this slow progress, I think you are doing fabulously with this little senny! She's starting to settle in and learn that everything is ok! And the more positive interactions with you the more likely she is to interact with you on a more frequent basis! So keep it up!