Looks like I will be taking care of a couple of doves...

[Remy]

I'm posting this because I found something upsetting today.

I moved back in a couple months ago. It seems a regular occurrence that I go out to the aviary and notice that the doves are out of food, and they've been out of water a couple of times. Today I saw they were out of BOTH. So I feed and water them when I notice this. I guess I should check them daily, since it apparently slips her mind.

My mom has an aviary in the back yard. I posted a while back that it was in disrepair, and got some tips on how to fix it.

Really though, I think it's a lot more work than is realistic for a 15 y/o aviary that needs all that work done. I'd have to learn how to sodder/weld, and we'd have to sand and paint EVERY INCH. I don't know how many hours would go into that. I'm wondering if we should just try to build something new.

The aviary has some bars that have become detatched and loose. A couple months ago, there were a bunch of feathers around an area where there were a bunch of loose bars (I never noticed them until I noticed the feathers), and one of the doves was gone. We figured it had escaped. Today I started trimming some plants around the aviary, in a fit of frustration after having found them without food or water. I started trimming some of the grass on the inside of the aviary, and below where all those loose bars, hidden in the grass, I found the remains of the 3rd dove. I'm still pretty upset about it. It's been in there this whole time. Are they intelligent enough that the remaining 2 knew what happened? If so, it must have been upsetting for them. I'm frustrated with myself for not being more vigilant, and I'm frustrated with my mom for not taking better care of her birds.

I figure I'll take it upon myself to check their food and water, but what do I do about the cage? It's not safe. I can't afford to buy another aviary, although I think it would be the best option. She doesn't want to spend another $2000 on a new one.

My mom really does mean well, but she forgets things, especially if they don't remind her. She takes care of the dogs and cats because they remind her. *sigh* She likes taking care of people and animals, but I think she takes on too much. She is also taking care of a mentally ill girl (bipolar + possible borderline + mystery cognitive problems), but is unable (or unwilling) to enforce any sort of discipline, so the girl kind of walks all over her. My mom also has been disabled with chronic fatigue for my entire life. I feel like she has taken on more responsibility than she can reasonably handle. She periodically expresses interest in getting another pet, and I always discourage it, because she has enough. Now I'm not sure I even want her to babysit Puck when I am out of town.

I am staying here rent-free (supposed to be fixing up the house, which is also in substantial disrepair), so I suppose taking on some of these responsibilities is okay, but I'm overwhelmed, and now quite upset at this situation. I'm not really sure how to handle it.

The remaining 2 doves seem to be in good health. One is a rock dove ("pigeon") that I found as a baby in a parking lot 8 years ago. Definitely a male. He must be pretty tough to have outlived the other birds my mom has had. The other one is a smaller, younger light colored ringneck. We think this one is a male too, since they haven't made any babies (and yes, apparently the breeds can make babies together).

 

[Remy]

Now that I think of it, I guess they weren't completely without food. My mom feeds them seed, but they have edible plants (grass and nasturtiums and whatever bird seeds have spouted on the ground). The plants do contain some water, although the water dishes were empty.

What are doves supposed to eat anyway? Google isn't being very helpful. :-(

 

[roxynoodle]

Doves and pigeons are considered to be in the top 10 of intelligent animals; they are supposed to be more intelligent than parrots.

I'm sure one of the pigeon owners here can help on the food. I do think unlike parrots they are supposed to have some grit available? I might be wrong about that though. I wanted one when I was a kid, and for awhile my ex husband had pigeons, but it's been awhile and I am forgetful these days.

You mom is a caregiver like me. I have at least realized I don't have the energy or strength I once did and as animals have passed over the years, they mostly have not been replaced so I can keep it to a number I can provide good care for. There is no way now I could have all the animals I had when I was in my 20s or a bit of neglect could happen just because of my being sick and filled with arthritis. As it is I had to cough up the funds for a nice compact tractor with a front end loader so I could take good care of the horses. All the heavy lifting got to be too much, and now that wonderful, but rather expensive machine, does it for me.

Best of luck helping her out and getting things under control again. I'm sure she really appreciates your help. I often wish I had an adult child or teenager that could give me a hand with a few things.

 

[Remy]

RoxyNoodle - I keep reading that they are super intelligent, although I don't remember thinking so when I was growing up. Although, we had one dove that got bit by a cockatiel once, and held a grudge against ALL COCKATIELS for the rest of its life. I've also never been able to get one to be as friendly to people as parrots can be, although I've seen others on here that are.

I don't know about the grit, but they do have dirt at the bottom of the cage that I suppose could provide that if they needed it. Or should we put some in with the seeds?

She definitely doesn't have as many animals as she used to. I think she knows that she can't really take care of them all, but the ones she has are ones she's had for a while. The dogs and one of the cats are both 10+ years, and the younger cat is still old enough to fend for herself (and remind my mom when she needs feeding, although she does hunt too).

I thought moving in and doing home repairs would be easier, but it turns out there are more pressing issues with this property than I thought... Luckily, my boyfriend is an estate manager for a living, and has done a bunch of remodels already (on mansions), so I have a good source of information for that... I also didn't realize that I'd have so many issues with the mentally ill girl, but that's also taken more energy than I though it would. I gue

Thanks Roxy. I was worried that people on here would get a little huffy about the lack of care the birds had gotten. They will be getting better care now. I just need to figure out what to do about that cage.

 

[roxynoodle]

I, too, have had animals that lived much longer than they were supposed to. I have an ancient horse right now. And of course, I never anticipated having these health problems. I was busy, athletic and strong. I was expecting to feel like this at like 70 years old.

Mentally ill people are extremely demanding of your time and emotionally taxing. My uncle is bipolar as is one of my oldest friends. And then when I dated someone who was I really thought I might actually kill one of them! It is hard to get non stop phone calls all day, many of them over what I saw as really stupid things like one of them dropped a pencil. I can't really comprehend how someone can go completely off the wall and swear for 50 minutes over something like that, and need to call someone to calm them down. But, they will do that to you if you let them. And it's hard not to let them because they are often threatening suicide. And of course you don't want that to happen nor feel you are responsible because you didn't give them your time because they dropped a pencil or had to take a 5 minute detour on their way home from work. So I know where your mom is coming from there. And then my mother runs guilt trips on me for not being constantly available to talk my uncle through this stuff. I can't help but notice though that she won't do it and he is her brother.

Your mom is someone who feels responsible for the whole world. I'm the same way so I know why she is doing it. Although as you get older, it gets harder and harder and I know now I have to make my life priority number one. I don't see any of these people who call me all day ever listening to any of my problems :-( Or dropping everything to come here and help me with something.

 

[Remy]

I'm sorry about your health problems. I want to go to school to study natural medicine, so I can help people like you, who live with chronic disease and chronic pain. Unfortunately, I'm there yet. :-(

My ex boyfriend was bipolar, but it appeared to be only when he was on drugs, or had been doing them recently, as far as I could tell. When he was manic, he was a big jerk! He was a great guy overall though. He passed away last August though. :-(

The crazy roommate drives me crazy! A couple weeks ago my mom spent a few hours giving her rides (because she can't afford the gas to drive the car that her friend bought her), and when my mom was going to drop her off at the last stop, my mom drove over the curb. Roommate apparently FLIPPED OUT on my mom, and started screaming and cursing at her. Mom asked her to get out of the car, and roommate refused and kept yelling, so my mom ended up just parking the car somewhere and walking home (with the keys)! I ended up giving my mom a ride back to the car.

I was SO PISSED about that. I want to have a talk with the roommate without my mom around to explain that roommate's behavior is FAR FROM OKAY. She was originally supposed to stay her (for no money) in exchange for doing housework. She was okay for a while (although she broke a lot of things, like dishes and the shower door, ruined bathroom floor, etc), but now we often end up having to clean up her messes too. For some reason though, ever since that last blowup, I have barely seen her. She stays in her room most of the time now. I guess she realizes something is wrong. She kept making messes and leaving them for us though, so I wrote a nasty-gram and left in on the table for her. The kitchen has been cleaner since then, at least... I really feel like she is taking advantage of my mom. I understand mental illness reasonably well (I used to work with dementia patients, most of whom were much nicer, more pleasant, and often more helpful than her); but this girl could do a LOT more around here than she does.

If we were to rent out the room to somebody decent, we could probably get $500 a month for the room, plus utilities, plus they would clean up their messes. We could probably get more rent once this place is fixed up.

I think you're right about my mom. She really likes taking care of people and animals. She just doesn't have the energy to maintain a consistent energy level all of the time. I'm happy to help her, especially with the animals, but I have a big problem with moochers. I really don't see this girl making much effort to do anything, ever. I know I don't see the whole picture, and she's going through a lot of emotional stuff; but so am I! I have a nasty case of PTSD, but no matter what, I have made things work (at least I don't abuse people who help me), and continued on.

Sorry for the rant. That's the other big thing that's bugging me!


----

As far as the doves go, today they seem fine, as usual. Yesterday they fought over their food when I put it in, but my mom says this is normal. The little one attacked the big pidgeon (named Hobo), but Hobo pulled some of the little one's feathers out! They both eventually got to eat though. The little ringneck dove doesn't have a name. I think he needs one. He is tamer than Hobo, because my mom hand fed him when his mom got sick (she hand fed the mom too, because she wasn't eating for a while), although he doesn't really like being petted.

Maybe I'll start spending more time with them, and see if I can get them to be more tame. I've read about other people having tame pigeons (someone on here even rescued a wild pigeon and it became totally tame), but none of them that I have ever had have been that tame. It would be nice to have a snuggly bird that can't draw blood.

 

[roxynoodle]

I have learned people suffering from a mental illness are not really capable of empathy for others. They really think only they have problems. They have actually told me, "You don't know what problems are!" Well, I think I do Let's see, I've been through multiple illnesses, injuries, surgeries. Two tornadoes. Financial ruin at the hands of my ex husband, which caused me to go through 2 Ohio winters with no heat because the boiler got flooded. One of these people seems to think it's my fault she let her grass get 6 feet tall and her neighbors called the health department. I have a self mowing lawn and self cleaning house you know. All of us do except her. No, we don't work our butts off on our houses. And the thing is I probably would have helped her out if the grass hadn't gotten that bad before she called. But, my lawn tractor isn't capable of cutting that, and my compact tractor is too tall and narrow for her steep hill, and would have been dangerous. I told her if she rented one, I'd bring my bush hog and do it, but that wasn't good enough. And even then I was scared knowing how easily tractors tip.

And yes, I know exactly how that went in the car. The grass grower is exactly like that. She has cleared out the entire county fairgrounds threatening people because she had to take a small detour to get there. She broke my barn door smashing her head into it. She has been arrested for this behavior, and even spent a stint in the hospital after her boss discovered she had notebooks and stuff on her computer about how she was going to kill all her coworkers. Once, long ago, she went off and actually punched me because her car wouldn't start. I told her then if that ever happened again I was going to beat the **** out of her, and thankfully that worked at least as far as her being physically abusive to me. She refuses to take meds.

Of course it would be in your and your mom's best interest to kick her out. I know your mom feels like no one else will help her though, and is worried about that.

 

[Remy]

Yeah, the roommate is not empathetic at all. She thinks that she is the only person with problems, or that hers are worse than anybody else's. She even told my mom "You don't know what it's like to be without a car" recently. Uh, most of us have been without a car. A while before that, she ranted to my mom about how "she's not my mom's slave". She was originally supposed to stay here in exchange for housework, but now my mom is content if she doesn't break things, and cleans up most of her messes, which she is completely capable of. She was getting really bad for a while, so I left her an annoyed note, and it's been better since then. I think I might have to be the "bad cop", since my mom is so tolerant and patient. I mean, I think I am too, but not to that extent.

It sounds like your friend, while crazy, is more functional than the roommate. Sounds potentially more violent though! Roommate has never been able to hold down a job for long, can't manage money at all (ran out of food stamps last month so my mom bought her groceries). She was selling Avon for a few months, which I actually bought too, but a while back she told me that she wasn't selling it for a while "because she got behind on her payments". She's been on meds for a few months, and they have helped her a LOT, but she still has a long way to go. It's possible to have an actual conversation that makes sense now, whereas it was very difficult before. I've known her since middle school, and she's always been like this to a degree, but she's so much worse now. I do feel bad for her, but I also do feel that she could do a lot better if she were properly motivated.

I think it would be in my mom's and my best interest if she moved out. Honestly though, I don't know where she would go. She doesn't get along with her parents, and won't communicate with them at all, even though they want to, and they would give her money too. They secretly reimburse my mom for her psychiatrist, because apparently she will accept my mom's charity, but not her own parents', because "they don't love her" or something. This girl is queen of logic. She has moved out of my mom's house a few times, in "with friends" only to move back a few months later when things don't work out. I wonder why!

She is applying for disability, which I think she will get eventually, and then my mom will start charging her a little rent, so she'll at least be contributing somehow.

I've tried to take care of enough people that I have kind of developed an "It's not my problem" attitude to a lot of it, because even though I want to save everybody, I know I can't!

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, the grass grower has been fired from numerous jobs. I'm not sure where she's working now since she went nuts on me because I couldn't go to a flea market with her due to having a birthday party for my niece that day. So she hasn't talked to me since December, which to be honest, has been relaxing. But, yes she screams, swears at and threatens peoples' lives on a pretty regular basis. She will get stopped by the police for letting her tags expire, the guy lets her go, but as he is walking back to his squad she will yell something horrible, and unable for me to print here at him, and then try to run away and get arrested. So now, something minor that she didn't even get a written warning for has become jail, bail and court.

My uncle is nowhere near as violent, but he, too, likes to tangle with the police. So he will get stopped, also for expired tags, and then ends up starting a fist fight with the police officer and arrested as well. He had to go to Federal court after yelling out in an airport that he had a bomb. His big thing is to constantly drone on about everything that has gone wrong in his life. He just isn't capable of getting past anything. He can go on and on for 4 straight days about the same stuff he's been going on and on about for 40 years if I let him come visit. He also loves to argue, even when I think he knows he's spouting BS, and will constantly try to drag you into arguments, even if he has to insult you to get you to respond. I don't like to argue myself, and sometimes have to tell him I'm not going to talk to him if he acts like that.

Well, no one has come on this thread though to talk about dove care, lol! Have you found the info you need for that online, Remy?

 

[IcyWolf]

I'm so sorry that the both of you are going through all of this. I have a great deal of respect for people that work with the mentally disabled, honestly, I couldn't do it. I am not nearly enough of a people person to deal with things like that, but I'm also not confrontational so I'd probably end up giving myself an aneurysm :52:

As far as the doves though, I'd like to try and help.

Doves mainly eat seeds, they eat the entire seed and do not hull it like hookbills do. Any fortified parakeet seed is good for doves and pigeons, they will also eat insects and plants as well. One nice thing to note, doves are really easy to switch to a pelleted diet, I don't know if the benefits are the same for them as it is for parrots though, I've always fed my doves seed, I know people that give theirs pellets though.

If you can, I would get them some grit. It's really cheap and they even sell it at walmart(at least they used to). It's usually right with the parakeet stuff(not sure why since budgies don't need grit), every time I've bought it it came in a box with a poor spout. Just sprinkle some on the ground in the aviary and then put some in a dish as well. You can sprinkle seed on the ground as well, doves like to forage, it's a nice way to give them some enrichment.

If you're worried about them not getting enough food, you could always consider planting some edible plants inside their aviary. That way, even when you don't live there any more, you know they have plants to pick on even if your mom forgets to feed them for a day or two. you could even consider buying or building some kind of hopper so you can put a few days worth of seed in at a time.

As far as water, keep an eye out for a bird bath, it's getting to be yard sale season, you may get lucky and find one for a couple bucks. Put it somewhere in the aviary where it's less likely to get pooped in, doves and pigeons love to bathe, but it can also serve as drinking water in case your mom forgets to water them.

To "fix" the whole in the wire, without seeing it, this is my best idea. I assume there is some sort of frame holding this aviary together, could you take a board and screw it to the top and bottom parts of the frame so that it covers up where the wire is broken? It's not going to be a pretty fix but it will at least cover up the broken wire so the birds can't try to get out and hurt themselves.

I've found doves are pretty easy to tame if you get them from a young age, I'm not sure about older doves but I'm sure it's possible. They're very smart creatures. If the aviary is big enough, just go inside, take a book or something with you and sit down in the middle. Sprinkle some seed around on the ground around you and see if they come down to eat the seed. It shouldn't take long for them to learn that you're not going to hurt them and that your presence means food. If they are reluctant to come down and eat the food on the ground when you're in there, try taking their regular bowls out while you are inside, that way, if they want food, they have to come down to get it. Make sure you give them their regular bowls back when you leave. I'm sure if you move slowly and talk softly, you'll have them eating right out of your hand in no time!

Sorry for the long post, hope I was of some help, oh, also wanted to add, I talked to someone yesterday that is looking for a dove because they just lost one at the age of 18!

 

[Wulfgeist]

Wow Remy, I hope you can find some kind of peaceful resolution for everything. My ex girlfriend never used drugs but she was pretty darned bi-polar and pretty much let her little girl run the house. It was not a healthy place to be.

Hoping everything works out well for you somehow or another.

 

[Remy]

roxynoodle - They are pretty nuts! I don't think my roommate has a high enough thought process to even think of a lot of that stuff. I think her biggest problem is that most of the time you tell her something, it doesn't register. She's extremely absent-minded, and doesn't seem to understand boundaries in a "normal" way.

IcyWolf - I totally don't mind mentally ill people. I used to work with dementia patients, and I thought they were tons of fun. However, when somebody actually does remember what happened yesterday, and seems to think that we owe her something, I don't handle that so well. She's going to get an earful from me one of these days.

As far as the doves go.. They are on a seed diet already. I read that some people feed pellets too, so maybe I'll throw some in and see if they eat them. We put the food in a bird bath in the middle of the cage, and then the water is in two smaller bird baths that are on the ground. There are a bunch of edible plants in the aviary already. I've never seen them eat them, but considering the amount of times these poor birds have run out of seed, they must. I'll pick of some grit next time I'm at the bird store.

That's a good idea with the board. I think I'll do that. I'm still worried about the rust, but I guess it's probably less of an issue than it is with parrots, since doves don't chew on stuff.

Maybe if I spend more time with them they'll come around. The little one, who was hand fed as a baby, is a little tamer, and let me pet him for about 2 seconds the other day before he flew away. They are used to us, but have never been physical with us at all.

Thanks for your help!

Wulfgeist - Thank you. Overall, it's pretty good, actually. Just the afore-mentioned things bother me. We are doing a lot of repairs on the house, which I enjoy. My mom and I have been getting along very well, so far.

I wouldn't mind having the crazy girl live here if she was better about cleaning up her messes, and if she treated my mom well. We'll see what happens, I guess. Maybe my mom will eventually decide that she's had enough, or maybe this girl will learn to behave better.

 

[Nakiska]

Hi Remy...I don't have time to read all the posts to see the advice you've gotten, so I'm very sorry if this is a repeat of all the infor you may have already recieved.

I have a pigeon and can tell you from experience. Pigeons DO need grit and or crushed oyster shell. I give my pigeon both, free choice. As for food, my pigeon eats a pigeon feed from the co-op...I think it's called pigeon gold, it's all different types of seeds and grains. I also offer my pigeon a dove and quail mix in a seperate dish and he enjoys that equally with the pigeon gold diet.

Please remember, that pigeons do not drink water as a parrot does, they actually use their beak as a straw and suck up water, so you need to make sure the dish you are using to water your pigeons is at least 1 inch deep.

I rescued/stole our pigeon from the big city. He had been attacked by something and lost almost all his tail feathers as well as a bunch of feathers from his back. When I found him up against the curb, he couldn't fly at all and could barely walk. I tossed a shirt over him and held him in my lap all the way home....over 100 miles!

That was back September 16th of 2011. At the time I didn't know if I had a male or female and he was young because he didn't coo..but squeaked. I was told I had a squeaker which was a young pigeon.

Within 3 weeks his tail feathers were growing in, he could fly some and I'd let him out of his cage. He'd fly through out the house, sit on my shoulder while I did the dishes, loved to hang out with my while I cooked...the works.

I had intended to release him after he healed in the time it took to get him healthy, he bonded to us and that's that. We now have a house pigeon living in a huge parrot cage. I bought him a flightsuit that he now wears every time I let him out and I take him bye bye with me in the car...he LOVES that...and every now and then, he likes to walk about the yard with his leash on.

The first couple weeks he was with us, I often questioned whether or not I was being fair to him, making him live in the house. But when my husband and I tried to release him...he curled up on a ball and refused to leave our hands! I'd never seen anything like it...EVER! We tried several times and the last time, he flew and clinched onto my shoulder so tight I thought he was going to draw blood!

Now I don't feel bad taking him from the wild. He DEFINITELY loves being domesticated, in a warm, dry house, no worry about predators and gourmet food at his beak tip and fresh water several times a day. He loves to bathe too...I put a big dish with water in his cage about once a week and he dives in.

I'm a lot like your Mom, I'm still considered young...but if these pets I have live another 15 - 20 years I'm going to be struggling.

Anyway, good luck and let me know if you need any more info.

Toni

 

[roxynoodle]

Remy is she on any anti-psych drugs? Even though the medications do a lot of good things for people like preventing wild mood swings or delusions, they also make people very exhausted and forgetful. Which is one reason why so many people don't want to take them. If she is on medication, you may very well have to tell her things over and over, and that part really isn't her fault. Some people say they feel like a zombie. It might also explain her being lazy.

 

[Remy]

Nakiska - Thanks for your advice! There is soil on the bottom of their cage, so do you think they have gotten it from that? I'll pick some up next time I go to the bird store.

Your pidgeon sounds awesome! I rescued Hobo when I found him, and he couldn't fly. He's never been as friendly as yours is though, and now he's all macho. He's even made babies with ringneck doves! They look pretty cool.

roxynoodle - She's on psych meds. She's definitely calmer since she started them. She has less energy too. My mom says that it's a trade off, because she used to "clean" a lot more, but she was so bad at a lot of it, that she would ruin things. She'd break dishes while washing them, and one time she broke the shower door. She was mopping every day, which was nice, except that she left puddles on the floor. The linoleum in the kitchen started to come up, and the rest of the house is hard wood, so my mom made her stop mopping... She's never comprehended stuff very well, and if you correct her, she gets mad, even if it's something she should know. The other day I asked her to either turn the hood on, or open the door, when cooking (I hadn't asked her before), and she got mad, turned the stove off, strained her pasta (which didn't even look done), and went into her room, but not before telling me that she didn't close the door when she cooked (even though I had watched her do it 2 minutes ago, and I had never asked her to do it before). I get that she's going through a rough period, but it seems like her entire LIFE is stressful for her, even if nothing is expected of her. She often leaves messes in the kitchen after preparing food, from orange juice all over the table (and everything on the table, and the floor), to spilled food on the table/floor/counter, spilling things in the fridge, broken eggs in the fridge... the list goes on!

I just don't want to have to clean up her messes (which she leaves plenty of), and I want her to treat my mom fairly, at the very least. At this point, nobody expects her to "earn her keep", although I believe that she is capable of plenty more than she does. Many of my dementia patients were WAY more helpful than her!

Sorry for the rant! It frustrates me!

 

[roxynoodle]

I can certainly sympathize. They are hard to live with, that's for sure. Yes, my grass growing friend is the biggest slob I've ever met. I really can't go in her house because of the smell. I have cleaned this horrible mess up for her more than once, but I don't want to do it anymore. I need to worry about my own house these days.

My uncle is the opposite because he has OCD. He has notebooks containing measurements of where exactly every item is in his house and uses rulers and measuring tapes when he cleans so things can be put back exactly as they were. He can drive you crazy though for the opposite reason, lol! He was here a few days while I was putting the siding on my house. I would measure, then cut a piece of siding, go to put it on, come back with the next measurement and all my stuff would be gone. He would put away all my tools with every piece of siding I would cut. I had to keep trying to tell him to leave it until it got dark and I stopped working