Looking to adopt

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

I was told that having her come out on her own terms is setting myself up for behavioral issues down the road. You want the parrots to know that if they're going to come out, they have to step up and if they don't, you close the cage and ignore them until they do. Otherwise they won't behave appropriately when you need to get them out of their cage. Also, she's unresponsive to treats. She'll grab it and throw it down, or ignore it entirely unless she's really hungry.

The reason I got her out of the cage was to clean it, and I still haven't managed to do a whole lot to her cage since I got her. The vet strangely said that both parrots were very used to humans and were easy to handle. So far it's been a struggle for us.

 

[DRB]

Just another example of a CAG's behavior.

Perjo is 7 mos, I've had her for 4 months. She's been great, in so many ways. But today I went to get a small kitchen towel to put on top of her cage door, as it is a place she likes to sit (when I open the cage and let her come out on her own if she wants). I figured the towel is more comfortable for her than the square surface on top of the door.

The towel is 12x6 , red and white, she didn't like it at all. She flew half way across the room when the towel got within 5 feet of her. I just forgot that such a trivial routine thing can make them uncomfortable.

So now I will have to leave this towel in her sight for about two weeks for her to warm up to it and realize it's not a giant monster trying to eat her.

 

[DRB]

They're not seeming ready for handling yet though so this is going to be somewhat sudden for them. I don't think we should put off seeing a vet any longer, especially with their background. Do you agree? What kind of treats would be the best? We've been using shelled peanuts so they can open themselves. The woman at the Bird Rescue recommended toweling to get them to the vet. It seems invasive but neither of us are ready to attempt regular handling.

Oh, and I have a success story today with the CAG. She chose on her own to come out of the cage for the first time and stand on the bottom of doorway on the grate. She sat there for a few minutes looking at me then went back inside.

My Perjo loves raosted sunflower kernels (unsalted), they are very small so letting them have quite a few in a sitting is OK. Also like pine nuts (no salt). Again fairly small, easy to cut in half if need be.

 

[MonicaMc]

I agree in that removing her out of the cage with a towel is *NOT* a good approach.... and the information you were given is just bad advice, IMO.

The birds *MAY* have been easy to handle by their previous owner, but you are not them. They are in a strange, new home, with new people whom they don't even trust. Why should they? Just because you gave them a better home? That doesn't mean anything to them! In fact, new is scary! Something new could be dangerous! Just as DRB pointed out! Was Perjo afraid of the towel? Or was it because it had red stripes on it? Only way to find out is to get some other colored towels and see how the bird reacts to them.


When I adopted Jayde, a red throated conure, I didn't take her out of her cage if I didn't have to! I gave her the option to come to me on her own terms. If she was on me and started to freak out and make her scared noises, I'd take her back to her cage! I allowed her flight feathers to grow out. Now? She'll fly to my shoulder for attention! If she's scared, she clings to me, not her cage! I gave her *CHOICES*! I *LISTENED*. And now I have a very happy and hands on companion! No force required!



Please, check out this webinar by Barbara Heidenreich! If you follow the information within, it *WILL* come in handy for taking care of both the grey and the B&G!

http://www.parrotforums.com/trainin...omed-parrots-barbara-heidenreich-webinar.html





And another fun fact.... I, essentially, work on a farm. Well, not your typical, average farm.... as I actually work in an aviary. My job? Cleaning cages. I clean cages, ranging from small birds like gouldian finches to hyacinth macaws. And there are over 50 birds in all!!! About 1/3 of them are macaws.


The majority of them I'm not allowed to handle. Doesn't mean that *I* can't personally handle and interact with many of the birds, just my employer would rather not have one of the birds bite me, and she can be a little jealous when it comes to her personal favorite birds. (no fun when a favorite bird decides that he, or she, likes someone else more!)


Two days out of the week, I have coworkers (combined, been working there for 16+ years, vs I've only been there a few months) who will take certain birds out of their cages (primarily the macaws, but they do take many others out, too! Where-as some birds remain in their cages), but one day a week, I don't have anyone to help me. That one day, I'll take two, maybe 3 birds out of their cages while I clean the cages. Otherwise, the birds remain in their cages as I clean them.


I have macaws, cockatoos, amazons, conures, the jardines all lunging at me to get away from them! Most of the macaws are easy to clean after, at least. If I can keep shoving nuts into their mouths (i.e. giving them treats), they'll remain in their cages. A few of them however would happily take their treat and exit the cage.... or drop it. I have one bird that has taken to climbing on my back as I'm trying to clean the cage. A bird that I don't trust. Hasn't bitten me! Yet... But I still don't trust the bird. The bird will happily climb off of me, at least! So that's a plus! And I do try to avoid allowing the bird on my back, as I'd rather it not become a habit...


Main point is though, is that I'm having to clean cages with birds inside them. It's not always fun, but it's gotta be done!

 

[marcomm]

Such a nice story I´m glad you have them. They would learn eventually to like you lol. Towel method is more for emergencies, not for everyday handling.
Cheers,

Marco

 

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

With some testing it's starting to look like Ruby only likes women. I got her out of the cage around a friend and she completely ignored me, went right over to her, and then attempted to attack my boyfriend. My friend had no experience with birds so she wasn't brave enough to attempt handling, but now Ruby acts even more disinterested in me.

Should I have someone (female) who is used to handling large birds come over and test the theory more? If she is a female only bird, what is your advice? Keep her here, rehome her to a female, or something else? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Bo (b&g) has been amazing. She seems to have bonded to my boyfriend and will let him handle and pet her. She'll also come to him when called and if he tries to leave the room she tries to get him to come back.

 

[GraciesMom]

My opinion for what it's worth .. I don't think it matters if she likes women or men more. Personally I don't think there is any such thing as a "female only" bird. Not saying that it's not true she prefers females just saying I think it's an issue that can be overcome with caring, patience & dedication. Others may disagree.

When I first rescued Gracie I was told in no uncertain terms she hated women and was much more aggressive toward them (she was pretty aggressive toward men too but would actually go after women). 2 of her rehomes were because of this.
Someone on the forum said to me "hates woman because she hasn't had any positive interactions with them" or something to that effect. It changed my perspective a lot.

I took more from that than may have been intended.. I decided then & there that Gracie's past life would not define her future that I would only use the knowledge of it to help her & do everything I could to not allow her to continue to be paralyzed or defined by it. I also decided whatever her limits or whatever type of relationship she needed was what I would accept & that I wouldn't force what I wanted or expected on her.

I'm saying all of this to you because I know the struggle & I know the frustration of helping a rescue Grey recover physically, mentally & emotionally. I still deal with problems everyday but we rejoice in ever small milestone. I know the stubbornness & the intelligence that make it even harder. Honestly, it distressed me that after only a month "rehome to a female" is already an option (not saying you want to or would just that you put it out there as an option).

My advice ... step back, reevaluate the situation. Consider this.. Grey's aren't necessarily going to bond with multiple people but chances are Ruby will bond and accept you once she has gained enough caring, trust, confidence & stability that she feels she can rely on with you.
If you are the person that provides those things it isn't going to matter if you are male or female.
Get rid of any exceptions you may have and start over with small baby steps and celebrate each victory & milestone with the full knowledge that it may be as far as she is able to go. Always remember forever step forward it's possible she'll take a few back & retreat into what she knows.

A month is hardly any time at all with a rescue. Earning the trust and helping Ruby overcome her past and let go of whatever baggage she is carrying could take months or even years. You had previously mentioned that the vet had no problems handing her and that she seemed use to humans. That just tells you that there is hope she'll come to trust you. Keep in mind tho that vet offices and strange unfamiliar places can bring out a more manageable parrot. Gracie was like that the first time at the vets.. second time in there was a different story.

Can you share your general location maybe someone knows a trainer in your area that can help out?

I know the success your boyfriend is having with Bo is amazing just keep in mind that it's no reflection on you or on Ruby that she isn't there yet. Wtg on Bo's progress that really is awesome.

Can I ask how Ruby is doing with her plucking?

I hope I didn't come across harsh but I really just wanted to get you thinking ... hoping.
I am sorry that Ruby's giving you a struggle but if you can find a way to just make slow positive steps ahhh the reward for helping a rescue parrot have a balanced life is really amazing.

 

[Tsali]

Thank you for rescuing these two precious beings. You have already caused a miracle to happen for Ruby and Bo.

I am a very inexperienced owner of an African Grey Parrot, Tsali, we are both learning and getting better every day. BUT I am very experienced in training - people (I worked in an elementary school), dogs (show yorkies and an incredible Boxer -RIP Boo), and horses (quarters and minis with a couple of adopted mustangs that had never been touched prior to the adoption process).

From a weekend seminar with a well known horse trainer I learned things that changed the way I think about and treat all living creatures. Much of it is mind set and a willingness to think outside the box. Here are a few of the concepts I learned that I have found helpful in working with Tsali.

1. You cannot change anything that happened to your bird prior to him coming to live with you - you can only make a better future. This doesn't really apply to Tsali because I adopted him as a baby and he had a good life with the breeder, but it is important to remember.

2. There are so iron clad training rules. Relax and enjoy the journey, if you don’t the destination is meaningless.

3. Any time you are within your bird’s sight he is learning from you. Make sure the things he learns are positive – you have a nice voice, you give good treats, you won't cause pain, etc.

4. Find a starting point where you can ask for something and get something in return. It could be something as simple as the bird looking at you from the corner of his cage. VICTORY – you have his attention build on that.

5. Take very small steps, and perfect each tiny success before moving on – each lesson is a building block for the next.

6. If something isn’t working, then try something different – don’t keep trying things that don’t work. Maybe all that is needed is a simple adjustment in the way you are doing the asking.

7. Most important of all – the bird must be more relaxed at the end of the training session than he was at the beginning. It is always best to stop a lesson on a positive note while you both are having fun and are relaxed.

Have fun and enjoy.

 

[GraciesMom]

Thank you for rescuing these two precious beings. You have already caused a miracle to happen for Ruby and Bo.

I am a very inexperienced owner of an African Grey Parrot, Tsali, we are both learning and getting better every day. BUT I am very experienced in training - people (I worked in an elementary school), dogs (show yorkies and an incredible Boxer -RIP Boo), and horses (quarters and minis with a couple of adopted mustangs that had never been touched prior to the adoption process).

From a weekend seminar with a well known horse trainer I learned things that changed the way I think about and treat all living creatures. Much of it is mind set and a willingness to think outside the box. Here are a few of the concepts I learned that I have found helpful in working with Tsali.

1. You cannot change anything that happened to your bird prior to him coming to live with you - you can only make a better future. This doesn't really apply to Tsali because I adopted him as a baby and he had a good life with the breeder, but it is important to remember.

2. There are so iron clad training rules. Relax and enjoy the journey, if you don’t the destination is meaningless.

3. Any time you are within your bird’s sight he is learning from you. Make sure the things he learns are positive — you have a nice voice, you give good treats, you won't cause pain, etc.

4. Find a starting point where you can ask for something and get something in return. It could be something as simple as the bird looking at you from the corner of his cage. VICTORY — you have his attention build on that.

5. Take very small steps, and perfect each tiny success before moving on — each lesson is a building block for the next.

6. If something isn’t working, then try something different — don’t keep trying things that don’t work. Maybe all that is needed is a simple adjustment in the way you are doing the asking.

7. Most important of all — the bird must be more relaxed at the end of the training session than he was at the beginning. It is always best to stop a lesson on a positive note while you both are having fun and are relaxed.

Have fun and enjoy.

Awesome advice that I plan on keeping in mind for sure. Tsali has one smart parront for sure. I've got 2 older teens I can throw your way for some training

 

[Tsali]

Thank you for your kind remarks. I get way too wordy sometimes:04:. We over complicate training and I am the world's worst. I have to keep pounding it in my head to use the KISS method - and I am the Stupid in the equation.


I love teens - send them my way. Barn chores and horses work wonders for kids - especially those with attitudes

 

[GraciesMom]

You sound like me then! I haven't found you to be overly wordy at all.
Lordy can I talk (& type) ALOT. I am very wordy it's annoying even to me lol Yep I wear my 2 kids out lol

KISS - that's a pleasant reminder as well it's been awhile since I heard that. Good advice!

 

[BeatriceC]

Is your place wheelchair accessible? I have a 14 year old that could use a bit of training, as well as his older brothers.

Back on topic:

First, I'm just now seeing this, so congrats on your new flock! My heart is always with the rescues. I just rescied an one winged, practically naked scarlet macaw. She was billed as aggressive, anti-social, and generally ill tempered. She's nothing of the sort. The big thing, I think, is confidence. MrC got her to step up on him a lot faster than I did, but he's the bird whisperer and has never met a bird that didn't like him. I went at my own pace, only asking her to do things I was confident about her doing. By today she was laying in my arms like a human baby letting me give her medicine. I moved more slowly, but we got to the same place. Your bird will sense your confidence, or lack, and respond in kind.

There is a fine line between letting the bird go at her own pace and showing her you are in charge to avoid behavior problems down the road. I apply a bit of my teaching background to this. There's something in education called the "zone of proximal development". What this means is that when you are dealing with a student you need to challenge them, as if something is too easy they are bored and not learning. If the material is too hard, the student becomes frustrated and isn't learning because they are either frustrated (and possibly lashing out), or they shut down. There's a sweet spot between those two things: material challenging enough to be learning something but not so difficult it's out of reach. With parrots, you need to find the dyad' combined zone of proximal development. You are learning along with the bird. Is something is easy for her bit you're scared, you aren't going to succeed. If something is easy for you but she's not ready for it, you also will not succeed. But if you both stay in your comfort zone you will stagnate and neither one of you will have the amazing relationship you are both capable of. So find that sweet spot and keep pushing yourself and your bird little by little and your relationship will flourish.

 

[BeatriceC]

Yeah, I'm not going back to fix all those typos. I claim exhaustion and tiny keyboard errors.

 

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

I'm not saying I would rehome her yet, only asking what the next step would be if down the road we still have no success and we determine she is a female only bird. If she doesn't get the attention she requires, she could take up feather plucking again out of loneliness. She stopped when the rescue bathed her and took care of a feather that was hurting her. Whatever is best for her.

I live in the Cincinnati area on the KY side (about 15 minutes from downtown Cincinnati).

 

[Firstgoatsnowthis]

Hi,

I was just wondering how your birdies are doing!

I hope that your Gray has come around to some extent and decided that you're okay, after all. I would like to think that birds evaluate us on the caring in our hearts. I think of it like "wooing" or "courting" a bird. I think what you've done for this bird's sake, even in setting aside some of your own goals in having a more "straightforward" parrot experience, is incredibly generous.

When I got my Patagonian from rescue, she had been well-cared-for in rescue, but lacked all kinds of basic parrot skills like understanding she's allowed to chew things, playing with toys generally, eating non-seed items, flying in any way, and accepting that she needs to entertain herself sometimes. Progress has been slow, but the bond we've developed has been rewarding. She doesn't respond to treats, praise, or any kind of negative approaches, so that adds to the challenge.

 

[Tsali]

Is your place wheelchair accessible? I have a 14 year old that could use a bit of training, as well as his older brothers.

LOL a piece of plywood and a few nails would make a nice wc ramp. Had to make it wheel chair friendly when I was badly injured several years ago. There is plenty of poop to scoop and plenty of pooper scoopers to go around. LOL if we run out of poop before we run out of attitude, there are rocks a plenty to pick up out of the pastures. My kids spent many hours sweating off attitude issues. They have grown up and are all well adjusted productive members of society, and they all LOVE their mommy. AND they are raising their own kids with the same moral values we instilled in them.

 

[Mat]

I'm sure thepoint has already been well made by now about towelling but I'll agree entirely it's not a great way to build trust. The only time I use a towel with my grey is for when we clip her nails.

As for Ruby being a woman only bird, I do believe that with perseverence a bird can learn to accept a human companion of the same sex. With that said, it has been my limited experience of when meeting other birds, they do seem to be more inclined to trust the opposite sex.

You have done a great thing taking both of these birds in from their sqaulid conditions. As you have obviously realised, it is not like adopting a kitten or puppy but if you persevere I am sure you will reap the rewards of your efforts.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm a hopeless Romantic. I am so glad you took them! Instant avian family!
Best of luck... please keep us posted!

 

[Taw5106]

Thanks for taking in both birds. I got my gray Buzz in April and he is very slow to trust. His body language is fear, he shakes a lot so I've let him set the pace and we've made slow progress. He won't come out of his cage so he hadn't stepped up, and right now I've got him now coming to the door and talking to me. I keep him busy with toys, I can now touch him a bit, he will come to me for treats, baby steps.

Monica thanks for sharing about cleaning cages. I felt like a bad parront rolling Buzz's cage outside with him in it to wash his cage. The cage gets washed down, he gets a misting and seems to enjoy it.

You have to take each day as it comes and have lots of patience. We eat meals with our birds, food is a great motivator. I make them chop with brown rice and lots of veggies. Warm it to room temperature then serve them when we eat and they are with us eating. This helped us when bonding with our other fids. Toweling I do it only if absolutely necessary. I forced Buzz out of his cage one day and he ran under our bed and stayed there for hours so I had to flush him out. He was so panicked I toweled him and returned him to his cage and gave him a treat which he took but I did loose his trust and had to rebuild it.


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