Leaving Jojo for college next year :-(

[happycat]

Are you certain that this school in Cali allows Freshmen to live off-campus if they are not commuters? I don't know, maybe things have changed since I was an undergrad, which was from 1998-2002, but back then most colleges and universities, especially 4-year ones, didn't allow Freshmen to live off-campus unless their parents/guardians lived locally and the Freshmen was going to live at home with them and commute to school every day. Otherwise most schools required Freshmen to live in the dorms, the idea being that students need to live in the dorms during their first year of school so that they can get used to living away from their families and on their own, yet still be in a semi-controlled environment with some supervision. I remember some schools that I looked at actually requiring that students live in the dorms for their first 2 years unless they commute...The other Freshmen requirement for most schools used to be that they couldn't have a car on-campus either, unless they were commuters who lived at home. Otherwise you couldn't keep a car on-campus during your Freshmen year...Now that one you can easily get around, I knew tons and tons of Freshmen who weren't from the area and lived in the dorms but still brought their car with them, they just parked them off-campus somewhere so they didn't need a parking permit from the school to park in one of the school lots. They either found a free parking place in the area that was within walking-distance from campus to park their cars, usually a residential area/neighborhood where they could just park their car on the street by the curb, OR they would just pay a monthly fee, usually like $50-$100 a month, and kept their car in a parking garage. There's no way that school officials would ever know that they had a car in-town, and that way they didn't have to stay on-campus constantly, spend money all the time eating on-campus, and they could go out at night and take weekend road-trips. Not that I'm trying to give you any bad ideas, lol..I don't know what would happen if the school found out that a Freshman was keeping their car in-town anyway, what are they going to do them, lol, it's not like they're parking on-campus without a permit.

I'd make-certain that at this school in Cali that you're interested in that you can actually live off-campus in an apartment during your Freshman year first, because if you can't then that eliminates that as a possibility...If you are allowed to live off-campus in your own apartment during your Freshman year, then you just have to weigh the pros and cons...Honestly, if it was me in that situation and I was able to afford an apartment and was allowed to live off-campus my Freshman year, I would do it anyway, regardless of whether or not you bring your bird. That's just my opinion, because living in the dorms is a nightmare, or at least it can be, especially if you are serious about your studies. I was a pre-med major and the dorms were constantly loud, and I mean loud, there were always people in and out of everyone's rooms at all hours of the day and night, and since you don't know who your roommate is going to be, you can either get very lucky or very, very, very unlucky. I don't think there's any in-between. I swear, I ended up with the typical "party-girl" that was the total opposite of me. She listened to country music and also pop-crap, like Brittany Spears (no offense to anyone who likes country or pop music, but she was a little bit country, and I'm not... And she constantly had other people in our room, in and out and in and out, the door was a revolving door. She stayed out until after midnight every single night, if not until 3 or 4 in the morning, and would come stumbling in drunk, it was a nightmare. I couldn't study in our room, I had to go to the library or the Student Union Building to read or do homework, and whenever I spoke to her about it she told me I needed to "loosen up". I went out on the weekends as much as anyone, I played guitar in a punk band for god's sake! But there's a limit...I got a tiny little apartment downtown that was a 15 minute walk from campus for $300 a month my Sophomore year, and it was amazing...And ironically I also bought my very first dog that was all my own, my Australian Cattle Dog, Cleo.

Actually I hadn't thought of that, I actually did get my Blue Heeler as a 9 week old puppy during my Sophomore year, actually in October of my Sophomore year, so I didn't wait very long to do so. And having her there with me made my college life better all the way around. Something you don't realize right now is the amount of down-time you have in college, it's not at all like high-school. If you carry an average of 15 credits, that's 5 classes (which is a normal class-load). So typically you'll have those classes either 3 times a week for an hour, or twice a week for an hour and a half. So I always scheduled my classes together, all in a row if I could, or at least all on the same days. So I would have 5 classes on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays from 8:00 a.m. through to like 2 or 3 in the afternoon, with an hour or two off in-between. So I was done with classes on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday in the early afternoon, and then either had Tuesdays and Thursdays off, as well as both Saturdays and Sundays, but or I might have a 3 or 4 hour lab once a week on Tuesday or Thursday morning, and that was it. So if you do your schedule that way, you can basically get all of your classes done so you are free from the early to mid afternoon on, and have not only the weekends off, but also have a couple of days off during the week too. I was one who would go home after class and study what we went-over that day for an hour or two, then I was free the rest of the night and on my days off, so I had a ton of down-time. That's when having a pet there with me was awesome. And I had a puppy, that's a lot more work than a Green Cheek. Actually looking back on it, having a parrot with me would have been amazing, as they love to just be out of their cages and in the same room as I am, while they play I would have studied. So it's something to think about for you...

I'd say that if you are able to get an apartment of your own then you should take your bird with you. Not only will it keep you closely-bonded with him, but it will probably be good for you too, as well as for him. It's not like you can't go out to a party and leave him at home once in a while, or do anything else in your free-time, that doesn't change from what you do now. I'm sure you go out with your friends and do things now and leave him at home alone, we all do that from time to time. I'm single and live alone now, and I go out and do things without my birds. I just make sure that I spend as much time with them at home as I do going out and doing things without them.

Thank you! You provided some very helpful feedback!


So there are two schools in California that I am very interested in.
Calarts, which is a bigger, more well known school with about 1500 students. I am going to have to reach out to them to ask if freshmen can live off campus, but I am under the impression as of now that freshmen live on campus. The only information about pets I can find is this "CalArts is a dog-friendly campus, so feel free to bring Max, Bella, Bear or Lola to class." This makes it seem like dorms are pet friendly, but again I'll have to ask.

The other school, LCAD, is a much smaller school. They have much fewer dorms available, and I am fairly certain freshmen can live off campus. However they dont accept pets in dorms.

Theres also a school in NYC, more research for that is required though.

Your roommate sounded insufferable haha! I don't think that would be quite as big an issue in art school. The "bad" roommates in art school would probably be the snobby type. Art students tend to be fairly introverted people!

However, I agree that an off campus apartment is probably superior! I like to have freedom in what I do, and theres nothing I'd love more when I'm stressed to have a parrot to cheer me up.

 

[EllenD]

Yeah, don't assume that "art students" will be a certain way, trust me on that one. I'm a musician and my mom is an artist who went to Penn State and was an elementary art teacher for 33 years...and it's amazing the people you meet when you go away to college. If you live in the dorms, the school usually tries to pair-up roommates by major and their common interests...So I'm thinking "okay, I'm going to be paired with a roommate who is a musician, good deal"...yeah, not necessarily, lol. Just because they are a musician or an artist means nothing and has no-bearing on how they were raised and the environment they grew-up in...

I know of a lot of smaller art/music schools where you do have to live off-campus simply because they either have no dorms at all, or very few. So it could very well be that as a freshman you might actually have to get your own apartment. If you're in Cali, most apartments do allow pets, and the nice thing about a bird is that landlords typically have no issue with them, especially if they're not a big bird like a Cockatoo or a Macaw. So that might work to your advantage as far as bringing him with you...

 

[Kentuckienne]

Well ... couple things. One is that birds don’t make mental commitments the way humans do. Two birds meet, they are acceptable to each other, like each other for their little genetic birdie reasons, so they mate, stay together, raise hatchlings. Many break up after a time - one finds a superior partner, maybe. Sometimes one bird dies or is lost from the flock. The partner will look for it and seems to miss it, but then will find a new mate and form a new pair-bond. There was a story this year of an injured female hawk that had to be kept in rehab. When she was released she went back to her old tree, nest, and mate to find he had a new lady hawk. She nested nearby and he wound up helping with both families.

Point being, no insult, but you aren’t the be-all and end-all for your bird. Your bird lives in a flock (your house) with limited choices for a mate. When you are gone, he will seek another. When you come back, you will find him attached to this new person and he may not want you any more. Birds don’t have any concept of being property. As far as they are concerned, they are independent spirits that make conscious choices. No bird recognizes any human ownership, or any human right to be in charge.

Yanking a bird back and forth between humans might be stressful. Now it’s this mate, now it’s this other one, now the first is back. I wonder if it affects their ability to trust, when a mate comes and goes, or if they just stay in the moment? Parrots are flock animals and one parrot is much more similar to another than one human is to another, so maybe there is no compelling evolutionary reason for them to remember individuals for long periods of absence.

Also, even if you get an apartment, that’s not enough. You still have to be home every morning and every evening to feed and care for your bird, and you need to give them a considerable amount of attention during the day, a quiet dark place to sleep, and a stimulating but not overwhelming environment. That means no weekend trips, no loud parties, no overnights at a friends place, no leaving them home alone while you go to class, have lunch, go to class some more, study in the library - you may need to spend time in a computer lab - and hang out with friends after school until late. Plus you will need lots of time to study. If the bird’s needs can’t come first, before yours, it isn’t fair to the bird.

Remember the bird doesn’t care if you need him or love him. He needs a mate and partner and he wants physical presence. Attention means everything, and intentions mean squat. So if you can’t provide a rich, healthy, supportive, companionship the bird will suffer, no matter how well-meaning you are. You have to so some real soul-searching. Will your bird still like you when you come home? That doesn’t matter. Will your bird have a good life? That’s all that matters. Being responsible for a parrots welfare means being responsible for them every day, not some future day when you have more time.

That’s why most of us argue that taking on the responsibility for a parrot should wait until you have a settled enough life. Out of school, steady work, long term place to live, enough income to pay for good food, toys, cage and vet care. AND a human life partner who also wants to live with a parrot. Then maybe the bird has a chance.

A good friend of mine says “feelings are not facts” - just because we feel something or believe something doesn’t make it true. And when we are younger our bodies work better, so they make more oxytocin and dopamine and we get these overwhelming, overpowering emotions and sensations. It’s not very romantic to say that’s all just chemicals. But that’s all just chemicals. Ecstasy is a drug that can give the same feeling, for a short while. So you had a strong desire to own this bird, and now your desire to go to college is stronger than that, right? Otherwise you would be asking how to make college fit into your life with your bird instead of how to make your bird fit into your collegiate ambitions.

And I’m totally on board with college ambitions. Totally on board with travel, new experiences, new thoughts, and new ways of living. That’s the only way to find where you fit in the world - to live the life that only you can live, and bring the gifts that only you can bring. I’m just saying, try to give the little birdie the same quality of life that you want for yourself. Don’t worry about whether he will or won’t want you back, and focus on doing the best thing for him that you can do. That’s what love really means. It’s not just an emotion, it’s not the desire for the other. It’s really, truly wanting the other to be happy, to be healthy, and to be free from suffering.

I know that’s a long post about a small subject, except this subject is everything. How we treat others, how we love them, how we balance their needs with ours .... this question will come up over and over again. It will come up when you are head over heels in love and also want to move across the country, but your partner is doing something they love already and doesn’t want to go. It will come up when your parents are old and frail and want you to leave your world and come take care of them. If you have children, it will come up, whomp you upside the head and work you like a rented mule. How you answer this question will determine what kind of person you will be, so it’s important. I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Maybe I will learn something new, too. Good luck, good luck to you both.

 

[happycat]

Well ... couple things. One is that birds don’t make mental commitments the way humans do. Two birds meet, they are acceptable to each other, like each other for their little genetic birdie reasons, so they mate, stay together, raise hatchlings. Many break up after a time - one finds a superior partner, maybe. Sometimes one bird dies or is lost from the flock. The partner will look for it and seems to miss it, but then will find a new mate and form a new pair-bond. There was a story this year of an injured female hawk that had to be kept in rehab. When she was released she went back to her old tree, nest, and mate to find he had a new lady hawk. She nested nearby and he wound up helping with both families.

Point being, no insult, but you aren’t the be-all and end-all for your bird. Your bird lives in a flock (your house) with limited choices for a mate. When you are gone, he will seek another. When you come back, you will find him attached to this new person and he may not want you any more. Birds don’t have any concept of being property. As far as they are concerned, they are independent spirits that make conscious choices. No bird recognizes any human ownership, or any human right to be in charge.

Yanking a bird back and forth between humans might be stressful. Now it’s this mate, now it’s this other one, now the first is back. I wonder if it affects their ability to trust, when a mate comes and goes, or if they just stay in the moment? Parrots are flock animals and one parrot is much more similar to another than one human is to another, so maybe there is no compelling evolutionary reason for them to remember individuals for long periods of absence.

Also, even if you get an apartment, that’s not enough. You still have to be home every morning and every evening to feed and care for your bird, and you need to give them a considerable amount of attention during the day, a quiet dark place to sleep, and a stimulating but not overwhelming environment. That means no weekend trips, no loud parties, no overnights at a friends place, no leaving them home alone while you go to class, have lunch, go to class some more, study in the library - you may need to spend time in a computer lab - and hang out with friends after school until late. Plus you will need lots of time to study. If the bird’s needs can’t come first, before yours, it isn’t fair to the bird.

Remember the bird doesn’t care if you need him or love him. He needs a mate and partner and he wants physical presence. Attention means everything, and intentions mean squat. So if you can’t provide a rich, healthy, supportive, companionship the bird will suffer, no matter how well-meaning you are. You have to so some real soul-searching. Will your bird still like you when you come home? That doesn’t matter. Will your bird have a good life? That’s all that matters. Being responsible for a parrots welfare means being responsible for them every day, not some future day when you have more time.

That’s why most of us argue that taking on the responsibility for a parrot should wait until you have a settled enough life. Out of school, steady work, long term place to live, enough income to pay for good food, toys, cage and vet care. AND a human life partner who also wants to live with a parrot. Then maybe the bird has a chance.

A good friend of mine says “feelings are not facts” - just because we feel something or believe something doesn’t make it true. And when we are younger our bodies work better, so they make more oxytocin and dopamine and we get these overwhelming, overpowering emotions and sensations. It’s not very romantic to say that’s all just chemicals. But that’s all just chemicals. Ecstasy is a drug that can give the same feeling, for a short while. So you had a strong desire to own this bird, and now your desire to go to college is stronger than that, right? Otherwise you would be asking how to make college fit into your life with your bird instead of how to make your bird fit into your collegiate ambitions.

And I’m totally on board with college ambitions. Totally on board with travel, new experiences, new thoughts, and new ways of living. That’s the only way to find where you fit in the world - to live the life that only you can live, and bring the gifts that only you can bring. I’m just saying, try to give the little birdie the same quality of life that you want for yourself. Don’t worry about whether he will or won’t want you back, and focus on doing the best thing for him that you can do. That’s what love really means. It’s not just an emotion, it’s not the desire for the other. It’s really, truly wanting the other to be happy, to be healthy, and to be free from suffering.

I know that’s a long post about a small subject, except this subject is everything. How we treat others, how we love them, how we balance their needs with ours .... this question will come up over and over again. It will come up when you are head over heels in love and also want to move across the country, but your partner is doing something they love already and doesn’t want to go. It will come up when your parents are old and frail and want you to leave your world and come take care of them. If you have children, it will come up, whomp you upside the head and work you like a rented mule. How you answer this question will determine what kind of person you will be, so it’s important. I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Maybe I will learn something new, too. Good luck, good luck o you both.

Thank you very much for your insight. I appreciate the time and effort that went into writing this.

So, first of all, I just wanted to say that no, my desire for college is not stronger than my desire to give him a good life. If it was absolutely impossible to make this work I'd choose Joe over college.(you can be successful in a career like this without a degree) He came at a inconvenient time in my life, but he came nonetheless and I'm willing to make sacrifices if necessary. However, I would obviously prefer a balance. I do think college is extremely important for my life.

However, if I was to get an apartment or a single dorm, I'm not sure he would necessarily have a poorer quality of life. I understand that college is much more taxing than high school, but I'm under the impression that I would be in my apartment/dorm about as much as I'm in my house right now. (please correct me if I'm wrong) I come home from school at about 4:40 and take him out till 8 or 9 pm. (on weekends and breaks much more than that),he usually just plays on his cage and sits on my shoulder most of the time, so he's always out when I'm studying/drawing. Does anyone thats been to college know approx. how much time you spent in your dorm?
Then again my sister takes him out for 1-2 hours while I'm at school.

"no leaving them home alone while you go to class, have lunch, go to class some more, study in the library - you may need to spend time in a computer lab - and hang out with friends after school until late."
I already do all of this in highschool, though, and he seems pretty content. I leave him at home from 8:45-4:40 and if I go out, even later. Would he not be fine while I'm in classes if I take him out whenever I'm home, and leave him lots of toys, food, and a show on TV? perhaps I could even get him a flight suit and take him out with me sometimes!


(one thing is, though, if birds have one "partner" why does he treat me and my sister the same? He doesn't seem to prefer either of us. Also, would he not come around to me eventually?)

I'm really sorry if I seem naive with all this. My inexperience is exactly why I'm making a post to get opinions of those more experienced and knowledgeable than me.

 

[ChristaNL]

I feel your bird will be better of with a flock he already knows than a single, locked away existence waiting for you to show up.


Leaving my african grey behind with my family was the hardest thing ever/ but I had the choice of taking him with me, and for him be all alone in a room a huge part of each waking day (college here is like normal school: 9 to 5 most days and then there are group-homework/projects etc. ) or be with my father, mother and sister... not as much fun (I happened to be his chosen mate at that time), but many more hours in the day to interact etc..
So in the end it was all about what was best for the bird, not about me.
(and I was lucky to be able to be at my parents place every single weekend / my father was ill at that time and home a lot)
Sometimes it is simply about choosing the lesser of two evils...