Lameness and lethargy after vet visit
- Thread starter kozykitty
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #22
I don't have the xray. I'll have to see if I can get it. Calling a different vet this morning.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #23
So Gloria went to another avian vet for a second opinion on her lameness. I had emailed the videos I took of her and a lengthy recap of everything that had happened thus far. They also sent for the records from our regular vet but they were unable to view her xray (requires a password that they forgot to send and the regular vet was closed today--apparently this happens with other vets too).
I was unable to go in due to covid but I will say that I was extremely impressed with them--their patient forms were 6 pages long with super specific questions about how you care for your bird.
The vet did a physical exam and she said that just feeling around, it feels like Gloria's knee is ruptured and that's causing her to turn her foot out. She needs to see the xray to be sure so she will get hold of our regular vet's office tomorrow.
As to options for treatment:
1) If she's not in pain, let her heal--she said that she had a patient choose this one for their cockatoo a couple of months ago. She said that scar tissue starts forming quickly and that is probably why Gloria doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable because it provides some cushioning for the bones. She also said that she would have limited use of her foot but would probably relearn certain things.
2) Surgery option 1-- She can go in and try to reconstruct the tissue around the knee which apparently has a fairly high failure rate for Amazons --particularly this age but if successful, she would have more regular use of her leg.
3) Surgery option 2--She can pin the joint. This does limit the leg somewhat but would enable her to eat with her foot and such. She said that usually works fairly well though she once had an African Gray pull the pin out before it was ready to come out.
I asked her what she would do if it was her bird and she said that she'd probably do the surgery. She did say that Amazons this age often develop some coronary problems and liver issues and she would need to do a full body xray to check that out. This would also require at least one night's stay in the hospital.
Money isn't really a consideration in this, I just want Gloria to be comfortable and not in pain (which she doesn't seem to be at this point). She's been acting like herself though she's still in the travel cage. She did finally perch today though she sort of roosted. She's also taken to sitting on her dish which is what she's always liked to do. She's a chill old bird that's fairly low activity and sweet--old lady who lives with old folks.
So I will wait to talk to the new vet when she's seen the xray then weigh this all out and see what we should do.
Thank you to all of you who encouraged me to get a second opinion.
I was unable to go in due to covid but I will say that I was extremely impressed with them--their patient forms were 6 pages long with super specific questions about how you care for your bird.
The vet did a physical exam and she said that just feeling around, it feels like Gloria's knee is ruptured and that's causing her to turn her foot out. She needs to see the xray to be sure so she will get hold of our regular vet's office tomorrow.
As to options for treatment:
1) If she's not in pain, let her heal--she said that she had a patient choose this one for their cockatoo a couple of months ago. She said that scar tissue starts forming quickly and that is probably why Gloria doesn't seem to be too uncomfortable because it provides some cushioning for the bones. She also said that she would have limited use of her foot but would probably relearn certain things.
2) Surgery option 1-- She can go in and try to reconstruct the tissue around the knee which apparently has a fairly high failure rate for Amazons --particularly this age but if successful, she would have more regular use of her leg.
3) Surgery option 2--She can pin the joint. This does limit the leg somewhat but would enable her to eat with her foot and such. She said that usually works fairly well though she once had an African Gray pull the pin out before it was ready to come out.
I asked her what she would do if it was her bird and she said that she'd probably do the surgery. She did say that Amazons this age often develop some coronary problems and liver issues and she would need to do a full body xray to check that out. This would also require at least one night's stay in the hospital.
Money isn't really a consideration in this, I just want Gloria to be comfortable and not in pain (which she doesn't seem to be at this point). She's been acting like herself though she's still in the travel cage. She did finally perch today though she sort of roosted. She's also taken to sitting on her dish which is what she's always liked to do. She's a chill old bird that's fairly low activity and sweet--old lady who lives with old folks.
So I will wait to talk to the new vet when she's seen the xray then weigh this all out and see what we should do.
Thank you to all of you who encouraged me to get a second opinion.
I’m so happy to hear you found a good vet.
There are so many factors to consider as you make your decision. Your baby looked in pain to me , and they are going to naturally hide some of their pain. As you can imagine if this was your knee... so glad she has had pain medication up to this point.
I would offer her one probably two extra extra wide perches, this will be easier to be stable and provides more support and takes pressure off of the feet. Especially now that the good foot is taking most of the weight. By extra big fir an Amazon I mean make your fingers in the ok sign then spread the index and thumb apart by close to three inches. This size will really support your burd. It might be hard to find a good size like that as undersized perches are the norm I see sold fir medium to large parrots. Crepe myrtle tres are safe to use limbs from. There are other safe wood , but that’s so common here it’s all I use.
Yiu can offer something perfectly flat and solid no wired mesh , but completely flat isn’t as comfortable to their feet as is the really wide perches that just the first joint of tie slightly bends. Perches that they compli clamp with their feet are fine as one of the options, but all birds need a really wide option.
Thanks for the update , glad I could help
There are so many factors to consider as you make your decision. Your baby looked in pain to me , and they are going to naturally hide some of their pain. As you can imagine if this was your knee... so glad she has had pain medication up to this point.
I would offer her one probably two extra extra wide perches, this will be easier to be stable and provides more support and takes pressure off of the feet. Especially now that the good foot is taking most of the weight. By extra big fir an Amazon I mean make your fingers in the ok sign then spread the index and thumb apart by close to three inches. This size will really support your burd. It might be hard to find a good size like that as undersized perches are the norm I see sold fir medium to large parrots. Crepe myrtle tres are safe to use limbs from. There are other safe wood , but that’s so common here it’s all I use.
Yiu can offer something perfectly flat and solid no wired mesh , but completely flat isn’t as comfortable to their feet as is the really wide perches that just the first joint of tie slightly bends. Perches that they compli clamp with their feet are fine as one of the options, but all birds need a really wide option.
Thanks for the update , glad I could help
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #25
She does have some wide perches but here's the odd thing about Gloria. She prefers skinny. When I adopted her, I got the cage she had for 30 years--a dome top cage with 2 skinny brass perches in it. That was it. I took them out and put a java wood, another perch--I believe fir and 2 rope perches in different sizes. In her "new" cage, she prefers the skinny rope perch and likes to sit on the edge of her dish. On the playtop, she likes to sit on the metal rail. She chewed away both ends of the wooden perch on the playtop and sits on the metal support. It's so weird. She seems to prefer them. LOL
The vet commented that she didn't seem in pain during the exam and she said that once the scar tissue forms, it keeps the bones from rubbing together which is what really causes the pain. It's so hard to know what the best thing is to do and my heart just aches trying to figure out what's best for her. If she were younger or more active, I wouldn't hesitate on the surgery but I can't help but wonder if it's worth it to put her through it. I'll talk to the vet tomorrow.
The vet commented that she didn't seem in pain during the exam and she said that once the scar tissue forms, it keeps the bones from rubbing together which is what really causes the pain. It's so hard to know what the best thing is to do and my heart just aches trying to figure out what's best for her. If she were younger or more active, I wouldn't hesitate on the surgery but I can't help but wonder if it's worth it to put her through it. I'll talk to the vet tomorrow.
Her useing the bowl to rest in made me think of the wide perches, better balance and rest.
When you guys get the xrays it will be interesting what is seen.
It sounds like this new vet is really good.
It’s just awful that this injury took place at a vets office, ugh!!
Thanks for sharing, so many people read this and learn from it
When you guys get the xrays it will be interesting what is seen.
It sounds like this new vet is really good.
It’s just awful that this injury took place at a vets office, ugh!!
Thanks for sharing, so many people read this and learn from it
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #27
I found some large perches on Amazon--1.5 - 2 inch diameter bottlebrush perches and others that looked like half logs--flat on the bottom and rounded on top some of those were 2 - 3 inches wide. I'll be experimenting regardless to see what she likes--something tells me she'll still sit on the dish edge and the skinny rails--34 years of doing so probably just has her used to it. Stubborn old girl.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #28
Another update on Gloria:
I spoke to the new vet who finally was able to study the xray done the day of the injury. She said that the xray was done with Gloria standing and she cannot see the knee joint from the angle to assess what she felt with the physical exam. She did say that it looked like her hip might be dislocated though. Basically she needs a full xray from the front done under anesthesia so that's what I'm going to do. It's hard to make an informed decision without having all the info.
In the event that her hip is dislocated, they can bandage it but that has a high failure rate. They can also pin it. If the hip is broken then it requires a plate which she has never done and isn't comfortable doing but there is an orthopedic surgeon in the veterinary hospital upstairs.
This is so emotionally exhausting and my heart just aches for my baby girl. She seems happy but she spends her time either roosting or climbing--not sitting up. I hope we get some definitive answers soon.
I spoke to the new vet who finally was able to study the xray done the day of the injury. She said that the xray was done with Gloria standing and she cannot see the knee joint from the angle to assess what she felt with the physical exam. She did say that it looked like her hip might be dislocated though. Basically she needs a full xray from the front done under anesthesia so that's what I'm going to do. It's hard to make an informed decision without having all the info.
In the event that her hip is dislocated, they can bandage it but that has a high failure rate. They can also pin it. If the hip is broken then it requires a plate which she has never done and isn't comfortable doing but there is an orthopedic surgeon in the veterinary hospital upstairs.
This is so emotionally exhausting and my heart just aches for my baby girl. She seems happy but she spends her time either roosting or climbing--not sitting up. I hope we get some definitive answers soon.
I’m so sorry! And I can only imagine! I was so afraid it was a dislocation based on the video. Regardless it is a serious injury and I’m so glad you found s better vet. And shame shame on your old vet! A standup radiograph!?!? What the heck!
I hope you both feel better
I hope you both feel better
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #30
Thanks. Have you had experience with surgery for a dislocation? It's a baffling decision to make. Of course much depends on the results of her xray .
Yes sometimes a pin is the best long term solution .... but anesthesia can be such a risk, and the vet has to be very good st putting them in our tiny bird air filled bones. Yiu have to feel confident with the vet, and you have to do the risk / reward is worth it.
We had a African grey who had to have a pin placed because if s broken leg, by a member in Singapore I think just recently . But it was a young bird.
You’ll have discuss quality of life if not done, and risks if done, and it’s just a lot for you and your vet to decide based on the unique health and injury type situation with your vet. I have no idea what I would do or decide....
based off the video I would feel I had to do something if it was my burd, but what that was I couldn’t say....... I don’t feel comfortable urging you one way or the other in this.
Sounds like you need more info and X-rays before you can decide
We had a African grey who had to have a pin placed because if s broken leg, by a member in Singapore I think just recently . But it was a young bird.
You’ll have discuss quality of life if not done, and risks if done, and it’s just a lot for you and your vet to decide based on the unique health and injury type situation with your vet. I have no idea what I would do or decide....
based off the video I would feel I had to do something if it was my burd, but what that was I couldn’t say....... I don’t feel comfortable urging you one way or the other in this.
Sounds like you need more info and X-rays before you can decide
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sorry double posted...
Anyway I feel for you and your baby it’s one of those not fair things.
Other members probably don’t know what to say either which is why they aren’t postings in your thread. I know they care and hate you are going through this tho. And lots of non members are reading your thread too
People are following the story, you have over 600 views , so this story could help ithers
Anyway I feel for you and your baby it’s one of those not fair things.
Other members probably don’t know what to say either which is why they aren’t postings in your thread. I know they care and hate you are going through this tho. And lots of non members are reading your thread too
People are following the story, you have over 600 views , so this story could help ithers
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Never having any thing so bad as this happen ever, to any of my parrots I cant offer advice, but can offer sympathy and prayers for Gloria.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #34
Thank you both for you kind words. I'm hoping to get the full body xray done this week. When I called Friday, they said that they were only open Tuesday through Thursday this upcoming week due to Labor Day and the doctors going to a conference on Friday but they were going to try to move things around in the schedule to see what they could do. I'll find out Tuesday morning. There are two vets in this practice --the one who founded it 20 years ago and a very young one. By the luck of the draw, Gloria happened to see the more experienced vet who has done these surgeries so I felt pretty confident when I spoke to her. I've been pour through academic papers online just to learn more about the surgery itself. It's just so hard to know about her quality of life. She's just such a chill old girl, who has never been terribly active since we've had her the last 5 years. I think if she can navigate her cage and isn't in pain, she would still have a relatively decent quality of life. I just haven't put her back in her big cage yet and I'm not rushing that. I am retrofitting it with some large diameter perches to help her balance and such. I guess we'll just take one day at a time.
Hard to read her reaction. She whines a bit at me but really perks up and gets excited over my husband when he's near. I'm not sure the whining is due to pain or simply her associating me with taking her to the vet and thus showing some fear.
Anyway--I'll update once we have had the xray and some news. Thanks again.
Hard to read her reaction. She whines a bit at me but really perks up and gets excited over my husband when he's near. I'm not sure the whining is due to pain or simply her associating me with taking her to the vet and thus showing some fear.
Anyway--I'll update once we have had the xray and some news. Thanks again.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #35
Just a quick update:
Gloria is going in tomorrow for her full body xray under anesthesia. Please send your good vibes, thoughts and prayers her way. The vet assures me that this is typically safe since she only has to be under anesthesia for about 15 minutes. She'll be there all day as they monitor her for at least an hour before and make sure she's good to go home after. Of course, I'm a worried bird mom.
Hopefully we'll have a firm diagnosis on her injury and the information we need about her organs to determine the safety of surgery.
Gloria is going in tomorrow for her full body xray under anesthesia. Please send your good vibes, thoughts and prayers her way. The vet assures me that this is typically safe since she only has to be under anesthesia for about 15 minutes. She'll be there all day as they monitor her for at least an hour before and make sure she's good to go home after. Of course, I'm a worried bird mom.
Hopefully we'll have a firm diagnosis on her injury and the information we need about her organs to determine the safety of surgery.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #37
Gloria is back home and the xray went fairly well. The vet had a little trouble straightening her leg for the view. The vet we saw last time--the one that is the surgeon--is on vacation until next Thursday so the other vet did the xray. She said that she didn't see an injury in the knee--just arthritis but the femur is dislocated from the hip so that is what's causing the problem. We will wait to have the xray read and talk to the surgeon when she returns next Thursday as this vet has never done this type of surgery. Gloria will probably need another full xray with barium to check her organ functions before undergoing anesthesia for surgery and I was asked if I wanted them to go ahead and do that today. I descided I'd wait until I speak to the surgeon. I didn't want to put her through that twice in one day and I'm willing to do that on a separate day if need be.
So that's where we are! Girlfriend is napping right now after being treated to extra birdie bread and blueberries for her ordeal.
So that's where we are! Girlfriend is napping right now after being treated to extra birdie bread and blueberries for her ordeal.
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kozykitty
Member
- Dec 29, 2015
- 209
- 1
- Parrots
- Gloria, BFA, adopted on Jan. 9, 2016 when she was 30 years old
. Her mom went to a nursing home.
Also have 2 cats (Rangerand Luna) and a 24 year old aquatic turtle, named Elvis.
- Thread starter
- #39
Update on Gloria.
The vet was on vacation as I noted and I finally spoke to her at length. The xray isn't terribly clear as to the extent of the injury because her leg wasn't straight when it was taken but it does show the hip dislocation. Gloria's age presents some problems as her liver is enlarged a bit. If we were to go with the surgery, it would be a minimum of 2 hours under anesthesia and the vet isn't sure that other problems wouldn't result from the surgery itself. Gloria seems happy and is acting like herself but she is still in her travel cage. I'm in the process of retrofitting her large cage with some shelves and wider perches--mainly so she can navigate it without having the gaps between the perches that she currently has. We're going to see how she does in her big cage. She wants to go in there and she gets excited when I open the door of the cage to move stuff around. She will also be on pain meds. The vet did suggest glucosamine and mentioned senior nutriberries have that ingredient--turns out she already gets those and loves them. So we'll see how she does. I wish I could determine her pain level. She seems happy and acts like her old self.
The vet was on vacation as I noted and I finally spoke to her at length. The xray isn't terribly clear as to the extent of the injury because her leg wasn't straight when it was taken but it does show the hip dislocation. Gloria's age presents some problems as her liver is enlarged a bit. If we were to go with the surgery, it would be a minimum of 2 hours under anesthesia and the vet isn't sure that other problems wouldn't result from the surgery itself. Gloria seems happy and is acting like herself but she is still in her travel cage. I'm in the process of retrofitting her large cage with some shelves and wider perches--mainly so she can navigate it without having the gaps between the perches that she currently has. We're going to see how she does in her big cage. She wants to go in there and she gets excited when I open the door of the cage to move stuff around. She will also be on pain meds. The vet did suggest glucosamine and mentioned senior nutriberries have that ingredient--turns out she already gets those and loves them. So we'll see how she does. I wish I could determine her pain level. She seems happy and acts like her old self.
Yes, I've observed the success, in probably 4 cases. And numerous fracture repairs with pins. The doctors had much specialization, and support staff was highly trained.
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