Jealous Amazon parrot

[moon1964]

Please don't re-home, as this only makes things worse for the parrot, as he will not understand why he lost his family. Sailboats is our resident Amazon expert and he has given your great advice. 15 years is a long time to just give away. One day at a time, and be prepared to take 2 steps forward and one step back.

The ParrotForums is here for you to give support and answer questions.

You mentioned to not rehome Blue. But how can I give him the right attention if he wants nothing to do with me. Wouldn't it be cruel for him to not get the attention that amazons or any other bird requires for a happy healthy life. I feel bad for Blue. I want to do him right

 

[EllenD]

First lets answer your questions...#1) Cover them both separately, each with their own cover, for two different reasons; First because you need them to start separating that bond between them and become more independent, and they should not be sleeping or living "together" in any way, except during the day when they can see each other from the comfort of their own cages, and #2) It's extremely important that they each get at least 12 hours of sleep every single night, and that will come much more easily if they are both covered separately and can't see each other.

As far as which bird to move from the cage and put in the new cage, that's a tough one because neither bird is really "new"....does either bird noticeably play with more toys in the cage, or like to stay in the cage more than the other? If so, then I'd leave that bird in the old cage and put the other one in the new cage...If not, then I'd move Blue to the new cage, because he's the one that you're really trying to "start over" with, as you've had him the longest, and he's the one that is really hormonal. Moving him to a brand new cage with brand new toys might help to settle him down a bit and give you a good head-start to your taming/training with him.

Now as far as re-homing either of your birds, you can't really say that you "can't even get close to him" as you've yet to even separate them and start working with them separately every day. Nothing has changed yet, has it? And even once you do get the new cage, separate them, and start working with both of them separately every single day, it's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. You have to give both your birds and yourself a chance to start-over and do things the right way this time. I'm going to go ahead and guess that simply separating your two birds, thus ending the mating and quieting the hormonal behavior pretty quickly, will most-likely show a pretty noticeable change in their behavior fairly quickly. But you have to give them a chance.

Don't be surprised if right after you separate them that you get some screaming/crying from one or both of them, that's to be expected, just don't coddle them or react at all to any screaming/crying from either of them. They'll be fine once they adjust to the new living arrangements, and they both realize that no one is leaving and they'll still be together, just not in a mating, intimate way.

Once both of their hormones settle down and they adjust to living alone and not being closely bonded to each other, that's when you have to really make a commitment to swooping-in and making your presence felt every day, as much as you possibly can, because the idea is that once you break that intimate bond between the birds, you're going to jump-in and be both of your bird's person...It would be nice if your husband would help at that point, if he would also work with both or at least one of them on a daily basis after they're separated, as it would be much easier for you to work closely with one of them and he the other one; if he is not willing to help-out and he doesn't want to become bonded to either bird then that's okay, just be sure that you're working with each bird on a daily basis.

***Rehoming a large parrot, well, any parrot really is a very difficult and sad decision to make in any situation. However, what you need to really think about is what would happen to Blue if you were to re-home him:

-He's not a tame bird that can be handled at all as of right now, so he's not a good "pet"
-He's basically a former "breeder" who has never proven to lay any fertile eggs; This is doubly bad, as not only was he bonded to a breeding-mate who he's no longer with (making bonding him to another female Amazon in-order to breed him very difficult), but there's no guarantee that he can produce offspring at all anyway

So who do you re-home him to? A breeder is going to try to get him bonded to another female, and if/when that doesn't happen they'll dump him, and if he does closely bond to another female but doesn't produce any fertile eggs they'll dump him, and if he does actually become a part of a breeding-pair that produces chicks, then he's just going to spend the rest of his life locked in a breeding cage with no attention at all, pumping-out babies to make money for the breeder; And any person or family who adopts him as a potential pet/companion is going to have to do the same thing that you're setting-out to do right now, trying to tame him and bond with him, and make him into a loving, friendly, bonded human companion; But the problem with this is that most people do not have the patience, time, or desire to commit themselves to taking the time and energy that is required to tame Blue, and one good bite is usually enough for them to be re-homed again...and again, and again, and again, for decades...You are really the only person who has a vested-interest in really working with Blue in order to get your loving little buddy back again. Someone that you re-home him to is just going to say "Screw this, we'll sell him and go and buy a hand-raised baby"...

Don't approach this journey you're about to start with the attitude that it's not going to work or that you can't do it, because you can. You just have to get started first. You'll see progress, then you'll see regression, then more progress...The key is not giving-up and sticking to the plan. There are going to steps-backwards as well as forward, that's to be expected, but those backwards steps don't mean that it's not going to happen or that it's "hopeless", they simply mean you're in the middle of the process somewhere..but never at the end...

 

[moon1964]

First lets answer your questions...#1) Cover them both separately, each with their own cover, for two different reasons; First because you need them to start separating that bond between them and become more independent, and they should not be sleeping or living "together" in any way, except during the day when they can see each other from the comfort of their own cages, and #2) It's extremely important that they each get at least 12 hours of sleep every single night, and that will come much more easily if they are both covered separately and can't see each other.

As far as which bird to move from the cage and put in the new cage, that's a tough one because neither bird is really "new"....does either bird noticeably play with more toys in the cage, or like to stay in the cage more than the other? If so, then I'd leave that bird in the old cage and put the other one in the new cage...If not, then I'd move Blue to the new cage, because he's the one that you're really trying to "start over" with, as you've had him the longest, and he's the one that is really hormonal. Moving him to a brand new cage with brand new toys might help to settle him down a bit and give you a good head-start to your taming/training with him.

Now as far as re-homing either of your birds, you can't really say that you "can't even get close to him" as you've yet to even separate them and start working with them separately every day. Nothing has changed yet, has it? And even once you do get the new cage, separate them, and start working with both of them separately every single day, it's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. You have to give both your birds and yourself a chance to start-over and do things the right way this time. I'm going to go ahead and guess that simply separating your two birds, thus ending the mating and quieting the hormonal behavior pretty quickly, will most-likely show a pretty noticeable change in their behavior fairly quickly. But you have to give them a chance.

Don't be surprised if right after you separate them that you get some screaming/crying from one or both of them, that's to be expected, just don't coddle them or react at all to any screaming/crying from either of them. They'll be fine once they adjust to the new living arrangements, and they both realize that no one is leaving and they'll still be together, just not in a mating, intimate way.

Once both of their hormones settle down and they adjust to living alone and not being closely bonded to each other, that's when you have to really make a commitment to swooping-in and making your presence felt every day, as much as you possibly can, because the idea is that once you break that intimate bond between the birds, you're going to jump-in and be both of your bird's person...It would be nice if your husband would help at that point, if he would also work with both or at least one of them on a daily basis after they're separated, as it would be much easier for you to work closely with one of them and he the other one; if he is not willing to help-out and he doesn't want to become bonded to either bird then that's okay, just be sure that you're working with each bird on a daily basis.

***Rehoming a large parrot, well, any parrot really is a very difficult and sad decision to make in any situation. However, what you need to really think about is what would happen to Blue if you were to re-home him:

-He's not a tame bird that can be handled at all as of right now, so he's not a good "pet"
-He's basically a former "breeder" who has never proven to lay any fertile eggs; This is doubly bad, as not only was he bonded to a breeding-mate who he's no longer with (making bonding him to another female Amazon in-order to breed him very difficult), but there's no guarantee that he can produce offspring at all anyway

So who do you re-home him to? A breeder is going to try to get him bonded to another female, and if/when that doesn't happen they'll dump him, and if he does closely bond to another female but doesn't produce any fertile eggs they'll dump him, and if he does actually become a part of a breeding-pair that produces chicks, then he's just going to spend the rest of his life locked in a breeding cage with no attention at all, pumping-out babies to make money for the breeder; And any person or family who adopts him as a potential pet/companion is going to have to do the same thing that you're setting-out to do right now, trying to tame him and bond with him, and make him into a loving, friendly, bonded human companion; But the problem with this is that most people do not have the patience, time, or desire to commit themselves to taking the time and energy that is required to tame Blue, and one good bite is usually enough for them to be re-homed again...and again, and again, and again, for decades...You are really the only person who has a vested-interest in really working with Blue in order to get your loving little buddy back again. Someone that you re-home him to is just going to say "Screw this, we'll sell him and go and buy a hand-raised baby"...

Don't approach this journey you're about to start with the attitude that it's not going to work or that you can't do it, because you can. You just have to get started first. You'll see progress, then you'll see regression, then more progress...The key is not giving-up and sticking to the plan. There are going to steps-backwards as well as forward, that's to be expected, but those backwards steps don't mean that it's not going to happen or that it's "hopeless", they simply mean you're in the middle of the process somewhere..but never at the end...

I have just acquired 2 brand new cages so hopefully that will help. Rehousing him is out Of the question you made an excellent point. Thank you. I will make the best effort to help Blue become a better companion. Not sure how to approach this endeavor

 

[moon1964]

First lets answer your questions...#1) Cover them both separately, each with their own cover, for two different reasons; First because you need them to start separating that bond between them and become more independent, and they should not be sleeping or living "together" in any way, except during the day when they can see each other from the comfort of their own cages, and #2) It's extremely important that they each get at least 12 hours of sleep every single night, and that will come much more easily if they are both covered separately and can't see each other.

As far as which bird to move from the cage and put in the new cage, that's a tough one because neither bird is really "new"....does either bird noticeably play with more toys in the cage, or like to stay in the cage more than the other? If so, then I'd leave that bird in the old cage and put the other one in the new cage...If not, then I'd move Blue to the new cage, because he's the one that you're really trying to "start over" with, as you've had him the longest, and he's the one that is really hormonal. Moving him to a brand new cage with brand new toys might help to settle him down a bit and give you a good head-start to your taming/training with him.

Now as far as re-homing either of your birds, you can't really say that you "can't even get close to him" as you've yet to even separate them and start working with them separately every day. Nothing has changed yet, has it? And even once you do get the new cage, separate them, and start working with both of them separately every single day, it's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. You have to give both your birds and yourself a chance to start-over and do things the right way this time. I'm going to go ahead and guess that simply separating your two birds, thus ending the mating and quieting the hormonal behavior pretty quickly, will most-likely show a pretty noticeable change in their behavior fairly quickly. But you have to give them a chance.

Don't be surprised if right after you separate them that you get some screaming/crying from one or both of them, that's to be expected, just don't coddle them or react at all to any screaming/crying from either of them. They'll be fine once they adjust to the new living arrangements, and they both realize that no one is leaving and they'll still be together, just not in a mating, intimate way.

Once both of their hormones settle down and they adjust to living alone and not being closely bonded to each other, that's when you have to really make a commitment to swooping-in and making your presence felt every day, as much as you possibly can, because the idea is that once you break that intimate bond between the birds, you're going to jump-in and be both of your bird's person...It would be nice if your husband would help at that point, if he would also work with both or at least one of them on a daily basis after they're separated, as it would be much easier for you to work closely with one of them and he the other one; if he is not willing to help-out and he doesn't want to become bonded to either bird then that's okay, just be sure that you're working with each bird on a daily basis.

***Rehoming a large parrot, well, any parrot really is a very difficult and sad decision to make in any situation. However, what you need to really think about is what would happen to Blue if you were to re-home him:

-He's not a tame bird that can be handled at all as of right now, so he's not a good "pet"
-He's basically a former "breeder" who has never proven to lay any fertile eggs; This is doubly bad, as not only was he bonded to a breeding-mate who he's no longer with (making bonding him to another female Amazon in-order to breed him very difficult), but there's no guarantee that he can produce offspring at all anyway

So who do you re-home him to? A breeder is going to try to get him bonded to another female, and if/when that doesn't happen they'll dump him, and if he does closely bond to another female but doesn't produce any fertile eggs they'll dump him, and if he does actually become a part of a breeding-pair that produces chicks, then he's just going to spend the rest of his life locked in a breeding cage with no attention at all, pumping-out babies to make money for the breeder; And any person or family who adopts him as a potential pet/companion is going to have to do the same thing that you're setting-out to do right now, trying to tame him and bond with him, and make him into a loving, friendly, bonded human companion; But the problem with this is that most people do not have the patience, time, or desire to commit themselves to taking the time and energy that is required to tame Blue, and one good bite is usually enough for them to be re-homed again...and again, and again, and again, for decades...You are really the only person who has a vested-interest in really working with Blue in order to get your loving little buddy back again. Someone that you re-home him to is just going to say "Screw this, we'll sell him and go and buy a hand-raised baby"...

Don't approach this journey you're about to start with the attitude that it's not going to work or that you can't do it, because you can. You just have to get started first. You'll see progress, then you'll see regression, then more progress...The key is not giving-up and sticking to the plan. There are going to steps-backwards as well as forward, that's to be expected, but those backwards steps don't mean that it's not going to happen or that it's "hopeless", they simply mean you're in the middle of the process somewhere..but never at the end...

I have just acquired 2 brand new cages so hopefully that will help. Rehousing him is out Of the question you made an excellent point. Thank you. I will make the best effort to help Blue become a better companion. Not sure how to approach this endeavor

Forgot to say they used to be in separated cages. We put them together because we thought they would be happier. You know like having two of anything so they have something to keep them company when we're not home...i know now bad idea.
A bit about the new cages they looked huge until I put them in. Good thing is they only are on them to sleep And to stay out of trouble. It's a start right

 

[moon1964]

They have been separated for about a week and my question is should I be doing anything with them or should I say Blue while he is still so hormonal?. Had him Anna Angel or this evening and when putting him back as soon as I tried to shut the cage door (new cage) he lunged at the door grrrrrr. Normal?

 

[EllenD]

They have been separated for about a week and my question is should I be doing anything with them or should I say Blue while he is still so hormonal?. Had him Anna Angel or this evening and when putting him back as soon as I tried to shut the cage door (new cage) he lunged at the door grrrrrr. Normal?

Alright, so you're off and running!!! Good idea to buy them both a new cage, that was exactly the right thing to do (most people either couldn't afford to do that, or they just wouldn't be willing to do it, so thank you for making that commitment to both of your birds)...

Yes, it is completely normal to have some issues with both going in the new cage and also sometimes coming out. This is where things like each of their favorite treats can come in handy...You have to remember that now they are both in a new cage and are living separately, so they are just as nervous and anxious as you are right now. You're all in this thing together, for the long-haul, and all 3 of you are going to be feeling things out and learning as you go along...Something that often helps people with getting their birds inside or out of the cage, in addition to bribery with their favorite treat, is using a long perch to get them both out and back-into the cage. A lot of people simply go to Walmart (arts/crafts section), Lowes, Home Depot, etc. and buy a long, 1" dowel rod, or simply go outside and find an adequate length/diameter branch, and keep this by their cages, and use it to get the bird back into the cages...Remember that you need to both REWARDING AND VERBALLY PRAISING each bird EVERY TIME they do something the way that they should, each time they listen to you, each time they do something without a nip/bite, etc. So it's a good idea to keep whatever each of their favorite treats are in your pockets at all times when working with them, and even if you're using a perch/branch to get Blue back in his cage, each time he does go back in you must verbally praise him AND give him a treat. And if you can get them back into their cages without using a branch but you get a little growl, that's okay, just ignore the growl and tell him he's a good boy once he's back in the cage, and give a treat. He needs to know exactly what it is that he should be doing, as this is all new to him too...

So now that they're separated, there will be a "settling-in" period, which you're in the middle of right now...This is the time where you want to keep an eye that each of them is still eating and drinking normally, that neither of them seem ill or depressed, etc. I don't know your birds, but if there are certain toys that they like to play with, or foraging activities, etc., then this is the time to deck their individual cages out and make sure that each of them has plenty to do and keep them busy, as remember, they've had each other as entertainment since you put them together, and now not only are YOU THEIR NEW ENTERTAINMENT, but they also need to learn to entertain themselves now...

Now you need to figure out your daily routine/schedule as far as who you are going to work with at what time, when they will have SUPERVISED out-of-cage-time together, and when you will spend one-on-one time with each of them. It's important that you're always talking to each of them whenever you see them, walk past their cages, etc. You need to develop "contact calls" with each of them, and start learning where you're at with each bird; what bird will let you do what with them as far as handling/petting, stepping-up, etc. As I already mentioned, right now is a huge settling-in period for them, as they just both got new cages and were separated from each other, so this is a good time to figure out what your normal, daily routine and schedule is going to be, and then start putting it into action, spending at least an hour or more with each bird, one-on-one and alone away from the other bird, where you either just talk to them gently/softly, or if you are able to get them to step-up, handle them, pet them, or simply have them sit with you/on you while you watch TV, read a book, etc. Whatever it is that you're able to do with each bird RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, then that's what you do, don't immediately try to push their limits...YOU MUST TAKE THIS AT THEIR PACE, EACH OF THEM...So if all you can do with Blue is sit near him and read to him, then that's where you start. If you can get him to step-up, then you take your one-on-one time with him just doing that.

Whatever your limit of interaction with each bird is right now, that's what you spend your alone time with them doing each day, the goal being to slowly, AT EACH BIRD'S INDIVIDUAL PACE, earn their trust, form a bond, and watch those limits on contact and interaction grow little by little. And it's very important, especially now and and in the near future, that any out-of-cage-time that they spend together, that you are ALWAYS PRESENT with them, and also always talking to both of them and trying to make yourself a part of the group...This needs to be a "Threesome" from now-on, instead of just a pair of bonded birds...The idea being that with your one-on-one time daily with each of them, along with with you interjecting yourself into "their" little twosome and making it a threesome, that not only are you going to form a close bond to each or your birds, but that the 3 of you are going to be a closely-bonded family of 3, not a pair of 2 bonded birds and their owner...

 

[moon1964]

Angel I have no problem with. Never really did. Blue I have always used a stick after he bit me on the face. Angel again has no problem going in and out of her cage. If I can just get Blue to stop wanting me as a chew toy. I'll be satisfied. Did have them both outside today for a bath. Just want Blue to be a happy whether I can handle him or not

 

[moon1964]

So I have come to the conclusion at least for now that Blue will never trust or stop being aggressive towards me. I Suppose he will just be a stick bird. Since I'm the only one he does the (I want to taste your blood) aggressiveness. He fans and pins his eyes when ever I sit and just talk to him. I'll keep trying but didn't look good for me. Btw he takes treats from me just to either shed or drop and still comes at me.
I am glad for all the help. Thank you very much

 

[moon1964]

So I have come to the conclusion at least for now that Blue will never trust or stop being aggressive towards me. I Suppose he will just be a stick bird. Since I'm the only one he does the (I want to taste your blood) aggressiveness. He fans and pins his eyes when ever I sit and just talk to him. I'll keep trying but didn't look good for me. Btw he takes treats from me just to either shed or drop and still comes at me.
I am glad for all the help. Thank you very much

I have another question. Am I suppose just leave Blue alone so that he calms down. I know I should know these things since I've had him for years but now not sure what to do.
At a loss on how to proceed

Susan

 

[mh434]

If you read my post "More Sammy Weirdness" in this section, you'll see that I've been dealing with a major Amazon jealousy problem for quite some time. In my case, it wasn't another person, but another bird, that caused it. Sammy was the picture of a happy, devoted, bird, strongly bonded to me, and a busy talker as well.

Well, we rescued another bird (an African Grey named "Reno") who, due to his previous life, needed a great deal of care and attention. I was EXTREMELY cautious not to let Sammy see me paying attention to Reno, as I didn't want to make Sammy jealous.

It didn't work. Sammy views Reno as the "alpha" bird in the flock now, the position he held until Reno came along, and he became extremely hostile and violent toward me (and everyone else). He was exhibiting ALL the "feathered 'Zon demon" activity, 24/7. He was never able to rest, or even relax.

Bear in mind, I've been working on him, trying to regain his trust, for 3 1/2 years now.

It is heartbreaking to have a beloved, devoted friend turn on you (ask me how I know - among our entire flock, Sammy is the ONLY bird that ever bonded solely to me, and I suddenly lost him). Little in life is as painful as unrequited, spurned love, but determination is needed now.

What seems to be working the best is sitting beside his cage, NOT looking directly at him, and chatting away softly to him. I do this every day, morning and evening where possible, and it's definitely helped a great deal. I can now skritch his neck, and he'll even walk over to get skritches when invited.

What ALSO seems to be critical is ensuring he gets LOTS of quiet, dark, peaceful sleep time - at least 12 hours per day. Sammy has gotten so used to this that about 8:30 p.m., he starts calling (LOUD) for attention. As I walk toward his cage, I show him his peanut (unsalted, in the shell) & he scrambles to get into his cage. Once he's finished his peanut, he starts calling again, to get covered up for the night. The longer sleep times have DEFINITELY helped!

He will STILL not step up on me, though - he will happily climb on to an offered stick (he'll even grab it & pull it closer so it's easier to step onto), but not onto me. On the rare occasions this has happened (because he's flown & landed badly, and wants help), he will step up, but within 10-15 seconds he starts turning into the 'Zon-demon-from-hell again, so I have to rush to get him back onto his cage before he explodes.

The point is, you have to have the patience of Job to regain a 'Zon's trust. I'm hoping that one day, years from now, he'll become my shoulder-riding, lap-sitting, roll-on-his-back-for-a-belly-rub BFF again. I'm doubting that it will come to pass in what remains of my lifetime, but I'm going to keep at it, and hope for the best.

It can happen, but it can take a long time, and will require love, patience, and perseverance on your part to make it happen.

Hope this helps...

 

[moon1964]

Tyvm. That does help. Wondering if should I just keep in his cage? The reason being he only wants out when Angel is out. Hen Blue is out alone he immediately starts acting out. (Chewing on the wall). I'm afraid to get bit again.

 

[raeleigh26]

I'd love to know how this story progressed. How are things now?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[moon1964]

I'd love to know how this story progressed. How are things now?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

getting 2 more new cages as they trashed these ones. there not for larger parrots I have a brother that likes to help me out with that.



No real progress Blue is still aggressive and with breeding season in full swing can not do anything with him right now. However i have learned some body language from him so as to not try anything when he postures. He does let me scratch his head through the bars, and open the cage door to fill his food dish without him lunging at me.

a lot times I let them out to just put Blue right back as he starts being naughty. (chewing on the wall naughty). I know re homing wasn't a good idea but i was getting so frustrated with him and my husband is afraid of him as well now.



So for now he's my stick bird