In desperate need of help! PLEASE...

[J_Whyte]

Hi everyone,

i have come to this forum as i really need some help/ advice / reassurance...

I purchased a hand reared male eclectus from a breeder. When i picked him up he would have been 4 months old. He (Juddy) seemed friendly whilst i was there although she said he was very head strong.. he breeder seemed very nice too but as soon as i got him home things changed..

I was told by the breeder to take him home and try to interact with him so i did... He was very scared and aggressive flying away and when my hand went near him he would fluff up put his wing out squark and bite me and he bit hard!!!

So i put him back in his cage as i didnt want to stress him out any further...
I told the breeder what happened and she said to leave him in his cage for a week and let him settle in... Which i have seen suggested in this forum also.

I did that, just left him in his cage didnt try to take him out and would go over and speak to him, put his food in his cage and tried not to scare him in any way.. When i would put the food in his cage he would always try to attack my hand..

1st week went by he still seemed very scared, so the breeder suggested a second week so i did that..

That was the last help i got from the breeder..

He has been in his cage for 4 weeks now with me just talking to him and feeding him.. Sometimes he gets that scared when i feed him he flies out the door of his cage and its quite the ordeal to get him back in there.. i have to try and get him on a perch as there is no way he will let me get near him yet alone get on my hand..

I should note that he will sometimes take fruit from my hand whilst he is in his cage but tries to attack my hand at the same time.. This make me have a little hope but this is all the hope i have...

The breeder also told me his wings were clipped but he can fly from one end of my house to the other very easily...

I was told by someone to try get him out again today to try and force his hand and it was just as bad as the first time i got him out he tries his best to get away from me. If my hand goes near him he tries to attack it fluffing up, lunging, squawking and putting his wings out and biting me... I know he is scared but i'm really not sure what to do next?

Do i give him more time in his cage?

Do i force him to interact?


He really seems to hate any sort of human interaction and only seems happy when he is in his cage alone.. If he is eating in his cage he will stop when i go near the cage and wont resume until i leave... He is starting to talk to himself at night so he must be somewhat happy..

I just worry that he isnt going to turn around..

I know eclectus can be stubborn, my aunty has them and hers acted nothing like Juddy when she got them..

If anyone can help or advise me what to do next i would really appreciate it as i dont know what to do... i dont want to do any more damage than i may have already done!

Thanks in advance

Josh

 

[skylala]

I would say get him out of the cage. Just open the door and let him come out on his own. A month is a really long time to be cooped up in the cage with no real bonding going on at all.

Try target training through the cage? Hand feeding his favorite treats.

Hopefully, if you let him out, he might initiate the interactions with you instead of you trying to force interaction. That would be ideal.
He might be cage territorial so get him out of there and he might be 'nicer'.

Also, regarding wing clipping. My boy was done too (I only wanted them clipped for when he came home to me, for his own protection and to make bonding easier) but he is a great flyer even though his feathers haven't grown back yet.

 

[J_Whyte]

I would say get him out of the cage. Just open the door and let him come out on his own. A month is a really long time to be cooped up in the cage with no real bonding going on at all.

Try target training through the cage? Hand feeding his favorite treats.

Hopefully, if you let him out, he might initiate the interactions with you instead of you trying to force interaction. That would be ideal.
He might be cage territorial so get him out of there and he might be 'nicer'.

Also, regarding wing clipping. My boy was done too (I only wanted them clipped for when he came home to me, for his own protection and to make bonding easier) but he is a great flyer even though his feathers haven't grown back yet.

Thanks Skylala,

I should have mentioned that i have left his cage door open at times when i have been sitting there talking to him and he didnt seem interested in climbing out... Even when i would leave the room.. I also placed food in front of the cage door today to try and entice him out but he wouldnt budge..

If he wont come out on his own would you suggest forcing him to come out?

 

[TessieB]

He was hand raised? I'm wondering if he was truly hand raised. I'd be a bit miffed if I paid for a hand raised bird and had to deal with the behavior you are dealing with. All the birds I sold as hand raised were friendly and confident. If they proved otherwise, I'd gladly take them back for a full refund.

Be patient and consistent with him. Taming him is going to take some time. And I'd have a few words with the breeder about the true meaning of a hand raised bird.

 

[J_Whyte]

He was hand raised? I'm wondering if he was truly hand raised. I'd be a bit miffed if I paid for a hand raised bird and had to deal with the behavior you are dealing with. All the birds I sold as hand raised were friendly and confident. If they proved otherwise, I'd gladly take them back for a full refund.

Be patient and consistent with him. Taming him is going to take some time. And I'd have a few words with the breeder about the true meaning of a hand raised bird.

Thanks TessieB,

Yeah that is what i'm starting to wonder myself... Juddy seems more like a wild bird that doesnt like or want human contact.. I have tried several times to contact the breeder but she doesnt return my calls or reply to my msgs so now i have given up hope...
Do you have any suggestions on what i can do to help tame him down??
As i mentioned in my post he will sometimes take food from my hand but is still very very scared and tries to attack my hand.. But if i were to try put my hand near him to step up he will just fly around in his cage or try to lunge and bite...
I really have no idea where to start and didnt expect this when i got him..

Thanks

Josh

 

[Kiwibird]

To me, something sounds off about a "hand raised" baby behaving in this way. I too would be upset if I paid for a hand raised baby and ended up with a bird who behaved feral. Obviously, this isn't his fault, but it does need to be addressed. Given your description of his current behavior, I think you may find it helpful to research trust-building techniques used on older birds who have been adopted rather than hand reared babies. There is a significant difference on how you bond and build trust with them, and your birds behavior sounds closer to those needs.

I do think it's a good idea to continue with the talking to him, handing food through the bars and leaving the door open when possible (just to give the option). Those are all proven trust building activities, though this guy sounds as though he is going to take a little longer than other birds. Patience is a virtue with these kinds of birds. If he's a bad biter, I would start with stick training before moving on to stepping up to a hand, and you never force a bird out of it's cage without good reason (an emergency). They need to want to come out, which can take time for some. You can buy a wood dowel to use at any hardware store to introduce the idea of stepping onto a stick. Our BFA never needed to be enticed out of his cage, but he was unhandleable when we got him. We enticed him onto the stick by holding a treat just out of his reach so he had to step up to get it. Then he was rewarded with verbal praise and, of course, the treat. At first we just let him step on the stick just long enough to grab the treat, but gradually extended the time he needed to be on there to get the reward. Once he mastered that inside or near the top of his cage, we started moving the stick with him on it short distances VERY slowly before he got the treat. The motion of riding a stick or hand is NOT a natural feeling for them, so they do need to get used to it and gain that balance and confidence (kind of like us learning to ride a bike) before they can come all over. Once he mastered stepping up to the stick, we then started training him to step up to our hands. Our bird was mistreated in prior homes, so it took a solid year to get him stepping up to our hands, but even if it takes your bird a few months, that can feel like a very long time. Remember to have patience and let him learn at his own pace. Once he's mastered stepping up, then you have enough trust between you to move on to all the other things you'd like to teach him.

 

[Birdman666]

He was hand raised? I'm wondering if he was truly hand raised. I'd be a bit miffed if I paid for a hand raised bird and had to deal with the behavior you are dealing with. All the birds I sold as hand raised were friendly and confident. If they proved otherwise, I'd gladly take them back for a full refund.

Be patient and consistent with him. Taming him is going to take some time. And I'd have a few words with the breeder about the true meaning of a hand raised bird.

I would have to agree. Sounds like the bird wasn't handled much, if at all.
Which is probably why he's so phobic. (Most likely.) To me, a good breeder handles, interacts, and patterns the baby to accept human contact. If you don't do that, you have a bird that is only a fraction away from wild caught.

Either that or you just got one that is very fearful of having been removed from the only surroundings and siblings it has ever known, and is having trouble adjusting. (Rare, but it happens.)

Sounds like he is not properly clipped. Four outside primary flights half way up. Make sure the bird has fledged properly, and can has developed flight coordination. Failing to allow them to fledge can lead to confidence issues, plucking disorders, and phobias.

Eckies, to me, are not the most touchie-feelie birds in the world, but they shouldn't be phobic and bitey either. Especially not the males. They are generally the more docile of the two.

Start with basic taming and training, and go from there.

 

[J_Whyte]

Thank you to all that took the time to reply to me!
I really appreciate it...
Yesterday i was at a loss and couldn't understand why the hand reared bird i got was still acting this way but now a few of you have confirmed what i thought and it must have been his upbringing... I guess now its just going to be a slow process its not his fault so ill going to try my best to turn it around.. I just hope that i can.. Its definitely not what i was expecting to get from my experience with other peoples hand reared birds and how they behave.. I will try the trust building exercises and keep trying to get him to take food from me.. Fingers crossed!

Thanks again

Josh

 

[MonicaMc]

Of the times that he has come out of his cage, did you ever allow him to go back to his cage on his own?


Chasing him around the house only instills more fear into him.


I agree with the target training/clicker training advice that was given.

 

[J_Whyte]

Of the times that he has come out of his cage, did you ever allow him to go back to his cage on his own?


Chasing him around the house only instills more fear into him.


I agree with the target training/clicker training advice that was given.

I wouldnt chase him... But he never made it to his cage on his own... He acts differently, sometimes he will keep trying to fly out of the back window banging into it and other times he will just sit in 1 spot and not move... After a bit i would go and help him with the perch.. He would always be very scared though.. Next time i will wait longer and see if he makes his own way back!

I have had his cage over next to me for the past hour with the door open and he hasnt moved.. He is sitting there talking to himself..

I will try the target training / clicker training hopefully it will help!

Thanks

 

[dragonlady2]

I had a similar situation with my Ekkie. He growled, lunged, bit whenever I put food in his cage or tried to get him out. I let Willy come out on his own. Your boy might not know how to come out safely? Do you have something for him to step onto like a play stand. I used a T perch initially but found that a folded rope perch worked a lot better. He is able to grip it better. To get him back in, I give him a treat, Volkman's Ekkie seeds which he loves. I initially used millet. If Willy goes for a fly, I use the rope perch for him to step on and bring him back to his play area. He will come and sit on my lap, especially if I am on my IPad. He loves watching videos. All this took time and we are still working on our relationship, he will be 2 in September.

 

[J_Whyte]

I had a similar situation with my Ekkie. He growled, lunged, bit whenever I put food in his cage or tried to get him out. I let Willy come out on his own. Your boy might not know how to come out safely? Do you have something for him to step onto like a play stand. I used a T perch initially but found that a folded rope perch worked a lot better. He is able to grip it better. To get him back in, I give him a treat, Volkman's Ekkie seeds which he loves. I initially used millet. If Willy goes for a fly, I use the rope perch for him to step on and bring him back to his play area. He will come and sit on my lap, especially if I am on my IPad. He loves watching videos. All this took time and we are still working on our relationship, he will be 2 in September.

He has a perch that he can climb out on but he doesnt seem remotely interested.. Even if i try to bribe him with food.. I guess he is scared, stubborn or just doesnt trust me.. He has the same seed which he also likes.. Hopefully we will get through it like you did

Thanks

Josh

 

[MonicaMc]

You said he was aggressive, but to me, he sounds afraid. Sounds like he's biting out of fear, not aggression.

You also said it was quite the ordeal getting him back into his cage which doesn't sound as if he's going back in on his own.




You might try putting his cage in the corner of the room so two sides are "covered", or perhaps try covering 2-3 sides of his cage to give him some privacy or as a means to 'hide'.


If he does come out, try and cover the windows so he doesn't try to fly through them. Even if you aren't physically chasing him, you walking near him could be a sign to him that you are chasing him. I've actually found that it helps to allow the bird to go away from you but give them the choice to come to you - if you can find something that they *love* and they're willing to take it from you.


Here's a couple of links that might help.
Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk: How to Make Friends with a Parrot
Working with Fearful Parrots: A Study in Videos | Learning Parrots



I have a cockatiel named Pistachio. He's either late teens or in his twenties, at least (his previous owners got him as an adult in '98), was a breeder bird, and he's very skittish! Any time I came close to him, he would try to fly away and avoid me. One day in 2007 I decided to try to "tame" 5 adult, flighted budgies. After working with them for several months and achieving the simple goal I had in mind, Pistachio's daughter decided she wanted the same interaction as I had with the budgies, so I started feeding her by hand. Then in 2008, this then led to me hand feeding a second cockatiel (now Pistachio's mate - years later) by hand as she was copying Pistachio's daughter. This then led to me feeding my entire cockatiel flock by hand, ranging from very tame (Casey) to very skittish (Pistachio).

At the time, my flock was cage-free in a good sized bedroom (14' x 10' of space), so if they wanted to "escape" me, they very well could. I started by feeding them by hand every morning before refilling their food dishes. (I do think it helped to have at least one bird willing to eat from my hands - monkey see, monkey do!) If a bird didn't eat from my hand one day, that was ok! I would repeat this the next day, the day after, the day after that, etc. At first, Pistachio wouldn't come close enough to eat from my hands and he just kept his distance. However, as time went on, he got close enough that he'd take a bite of food, then run off. Come back over, take another piece, and run off. Then he got comfortable enough to eat from my hands but not to touch my hands. If he accidentally touched me, he'd freak out and fly off! Then he got ok with touching my hand with his toes, but not his foot. Again, it was touch, grab food, run away. Repeat. Then he was ok with putting one foot on my hand and one day he was ok with both feet! And a couple days later he actually flew onto my hand and rummaged through the left overs. When he realized the food was gone, he waited very patiently as I *very slowly* made my way over to the food container and got him more food! And shortly after that, he flew onto my shoulder and waited yet again for me to feed him by hand!


I did stop feeding them by hand every morning a few years ago, but just the other day I tried it again to see what their reaction would be, and Pistachio was still just as happy and eager to jump onto my hand as he was 6 years ago! He's still a skittish bird (my only goal was to get them to eat from my hand without freaking out, nothing more), but he's no longer as skittish as he used to be.


I am working with a female ARN, I don't know if she was hand raised or not (she does have a leg band!), but she is definitely not tame or friendly! Currently, my flock is not cage-free, and I do feel as if this could complicate things (a frightened bird in a cage cannot feel as if it can escape from that which it is frightened of - thus potentially instilling more fear in the bird). Right now, I'm just trying to get her comfortable with my presence enough to eat in front of me, and that she will do as far as I am a certain amount away from the cage. As she gets more comfortable with me, I'll sit closer and closer to me.

My goal right now isn't to get her out of her cage. It's not even to get her to step up! It's simply to get her comfortable with my presence without freaking out. Once she's ok with that, then I'll work on getting her comfortable enough to eat from my hands. Once we are at that point, then I may work on teaching her to step up.





I haven't worked with a bird larger than a conure, but if I did, I'd probably take a similar approach. Since you have a hand raised baby eclectus, you *shouldn't* need to be going through this. He could be freaking out because you are a guy and the breeder is a female and he associated being taken away from the only place he knew as home and safety (the breeders place) to a new and scary environment (your place). Or maybe something in your home could be scaring him but without being able to look through his eyes, it may be hard to determine exactly what that is.

 

[MikeyTN]

I have noticed this with ekkies, they can be hand fed and friendly, but the moment they go to someone new they start the attacks. Here's what I did with JoJo when I got him home. He attacks and carry on and such. I got him out and let him sit on me in a different room far away from his cage. Just him alone with me. Then I start getting him to practice to step up. I did this 4-5 times per day at 25min+ intervals. I had him stepping up in 3 days and fully stepping up with no issue by a week. But the trust comes way down the road as it took him several months before he really trust me. He's one of my sweetest baby right now but he does NOT like strangers, it doesn't matter who it is. If it's not my partner nor I, he will scream on top of his lungs and will attack strangers. He gets skittish around strangers too. But not around my partner and I. Neither one of us have any trouble getting him to step up and be sweet, but he's better with me.

 

[drlisaort]

I can't add to what has already been said, but my own parrot was five months when I brought him home and I can honestly say I didn't have the experience you describe. I did visit with him every weekend from five weeks until I brought him home. I was petrified that I wouldn't be able to handle him but he transitioned nicely. I'm thinking this is because I wasn't a stranger. I did sing to him all the time when I'd visit and continued from the ride home to while at home and still sing regularly. I would try rituals such as feeding at the same time and taking him out around the same times each day so he has a routine.

 

[Brodie]

I had the exact same problem with my female ekkie, only for months. St the breeders she was perfect, I held her, she let me pat her, feed her, everything. Yet the day I brought her home, she hated me and everyone else too. She would attack me any chance she got, very aggressively too. I spent so much time on the phone to the breeder who was so surprised by her complete 360 change. I tried everything. I sat by her cage and talked to her for hours, fed her through the cage, she would only snatch and try attack me through the cage. Literally I tried everything. I came to the conclusion this may only be able to be done one way. Is she wants to bite me, ill let her.
So I put my hand into a fist, she bit me many times in the first two days, doing a reasonable amount of damage to my poor hand. But all worth it. She soon realised she was getting no reaction when she bit me. So why bite? Right?
With in two days I had her willingly stepping up.
Within just over a week I could pat her.
Two weeks, perfect companion parrot.
She's now attached to me lol. She adores me, I adore her. I wouldn't trade her in for anything or anyone. She will let me do anything, I can open her wings, she does backflips on my hand, she will lie on her back for me. There is nothing she won't let me do. I basically had to get her to trust me. Now she does. Its been two years now and since, she has only bit me once. Which was actually only two weeks ago, she thought I was Luke (she hates Luke for no reason) as he was standing right next to me, I put my hand in, worst bite ever. She took out two chunks of my hand lol.. silly girl. She noticed straight sway, was very apologetic.
First thing is trust.
Also always remember to be patient, patience is the key in this kind of situation.

 

[pacoparrot]

I have some first hand experience to give. I got my female eclectus when she was unweaned but fully feathered. She was the same way. The handfeeding helped us bond a little. The important thing is to find something he enjoys and make sure you're the only was he can get it. IF he is truly a baby he was probably not socialized well. This shouldn't be super hard to change. Avoid doing anything that makes him too upset but you gotta show this little guy somehow that you're not a threat. Me and my girl had a rough time for about the first year and half. But after that we were as close any bird and person could be. Once you are out of the forest I found clicker training to be extremely helpful with my eclectus. She was a fast learner and the rewards made her very close to me. Good luck!