I really have to vent - avian diet

[chris-md]

I need to call someone out but I’m just a tad bit too polite to name them outright. Hopefully someone knows who I’m talking about.

I follow a particular Instagram account who has been experiencing something of a surgence. This account follows a particular person with Flock of 5 medium/large parrots and has always attempted to focus on avian wellness and enrichment. This instagram maven has always had a strong following but they have segued this into a larger avian wellness movement.

While I largely have no concerns with this (Cant complain about anyone wanting to better our birds lives!) , what I’m seeing as far as their diet advocacy is terrifying to me. They have started selling their own food mix to this large audience for all birds and all sized birds that advocates 9-10% insect protein! A screen grab below shows their ingredients. Crickets and meal worms!

I’ve tried talking to this person about some of the items she’s advocated (asking about it, is more accurate, not lecturing) and all this person says, nicely, is “I’ve consulted with ******, a renowned expert in avian nutrition, in everything I’ve fed”...

There’s a lot to like in the mix, but insects at 10% of a parrots diet? Seriously? I pity the poor suckers who buy this crap, raising a whole new generation of birds suffering atherosclerosis!

 

[Scott]

Not at all familiar with this, Chris. Wonder if they are hopping the insect protein bandwagon that has made inroads with human foods? Non on my flock's menu.

 

[plumsmum2005]

So as I guessed right Jason Crean is in the mix somewhere. This food is pellets and insects which provide very high protein and fat levels. IMHO not OK for birds in the home. Show your AV next time you have contact and reply with what they say hun. Difficult to argue with a professional. He also likes to ban people who don't agree with him.

My AV would have a pink fit at the contents, for sure.

Atherosclerosis is a medical condition that presents following a too high fat diet that will affect the birds liver in the first instance. These medical conditions put the bird at high risk of an aneursym and a quick death.

Some questions that have been asked are "How much do you feed daily? Is this in addition to fresh veggies/fruits?"

Answer: this is in addition to fresh and doesn’t replace fresh.


Probably worth noting that the folk involved with this do not have birds that are caged in homes I don't think so get lots of exercise.

 

[chris-md]

plumsmum, you nailed it. Jason is a founding member of this collaboration.

And you’re right I made a false equivalency (I tend to think of atherosclerosis in terms of meat in take = fatty beef. But it is partly fat, and I should have known that since I do have to manage high cholesterol *d’oh!*). It’s renal and liver diseases to watch out for.

Scott, my best guess is this started when this instagrammer got a toucan from Jason. Baby toucans need more protein than parrots. They actually get frozen baby mice in the first few months after weaning in addition to tons of mealworms. This seems to left an impression on IG’er who started giving little mealworms to the rest of her flock. This is likely an oversimplification and overstatement, I don’t know this person. But I did see a progression of sorts.

 

[plumsmum2005]

If it is purchased by the informed and used properly ie in moderation and no other treats or human foods are given daily then it will probably be OK. Not, in the hands of someone who thinks it answers their prayers to throw a few handfuls in each day!


TBH Chris I am having more problems over here with the likes of Brown's parrot treats and jelly pots. Both pure cr$p!

 

[chris-md]

Never heard of either of those, I’m gonna need more details

They are promoting this as the primary diet. I saw someone asking what would be best for their caique, and they said “get this mix for smaller birds”, which has fewer ingredients and no crickets but does have the mealworms which make up 5% of the mix.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Again in small quantities hun with no other treats etc maybe, like all these things it is time that tells us if it right or wrong.



Jelly Pots https://www.northernparrots.com/assorted-fruit-cup-jelly-parrot-treat-prod50130a/


Browns cr$p https://www.northernparrots.com/parrot-food-and-treats-dept156/?category=218&brand=BROWNS

I was having a hissy fit with them re Jungle Jems and I see that they are sold out. Some of the ingredients are listed as being really bad for us, need I say more?

 

[plumsmum2005]

plumsmum, you nailed it. Jason is a founding member of this collaboration.

And you’re right I made a false equivalency (I tend to think of atherosclerosis in terms of meat in take = fatty beef. But it is partly fat, and I should have known that since I do have to manage high cholesterol *d’oh!*). It’s renal and liver diseases to watch out for.

Scott, my best guess is this started when this instagrammer got a toucan from Jason. Baby toucans need more protein than parrots. They actually get frozen baby mice in the first few months after weaning in addition to tons of mealworms. This seems to left an impression on IG’er who started giving little mealworms to the rest of her flock. This is likely an oversimplification and overstatement, I don’t know this person. But I did see a progression of sorts.

Atheroscerosis is the formation of plaques formed by too much fat in the blood which causes lesions in the arteries that become blocked or weak and burst re the aneursym. Meat tends to be high in fat.

 

[Scott]

Again in small quantities hun with no other treats etc maybe, like all these things it is time that tells us if it right or wrong.



Jelly Pots https://www.northernparrots.com/assorted-fruit-cup-jelly-parrot-treat-prod50130a/


Browns cr$p https://www.northernparrots.com/parrot-food-and-treats-dept156/?category=218&brand=BROWNS

I was having a hissy fit with them re Jungle Jems and I see that they are sold out. Some of the ingredients are listed as being really bad for us, need I say more?

Horrific! Wonder if the ingredients includes HFCS??

Why am I not surprised at all sorts of "new" parrot foods? The Supplements Industry for humans is fiercely popular, at least in the U.S. Even though the labels expressly state, to paraphrase "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose or treat any condition." Not that the FDA is a champion of nutrition.....

 

[SailBoat]

Wow, I live such a sheltered life! Or, its my lack of interest in such products!

I have given-up trying to convince Humans that just because some new 'thing' shows up that they should give it to their Parrots.

When it comes to adding "9-10% insect protein" (by volume) that would exceed the normal intake of the majority of Hook-Bill Parrot in their natural range. If I recall correctly, freeze dry products tend to increase the protein content of a live insects.

The reality is that the vast majority of the Parrots that are being fed this 'wonder diet' are barely getting any Veggies as part of their diet.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Wow, I live such a sheltered life! Or, its my lack of interest in such products!

I have given-up trying to convince Humans that just because some new 'thing' shows up that they should give it to their Parrots.

When it comes to adding "9-10% insect protein" (by volume) that would exceed the normal intake of the majority of Hook-Bill Parrot in their natural range. If I recall correctly, freeze dry products tend to increase the protein content of a live insects.

The reality is that the vast majority of the Parrots that are being fed this 'wonder diet' are barely getting any Veggies as part of their diet.

If the teachings of (Dr) Jason Crean are adhered to it should be just about OK? He promotes a raw diet of flowers, sprouts, veggies, teas, herbs and weeds. The sycophants that follow him obsessively have to 'do it all'. I do not like the fact that he does not issue any warnings about certain foods. It is purely up to the owner/reader to decide. Some is good and I pick and use those and the rest I don't. Just a shame that many others cannot see and do likewise.

 

[bug_n_flock]

Mealworms are also about 20% fat by volume. O.O I mean, they could have at least gone with insect protein better than mealworms and crickets! Heck, even reptile keepers are moving away from feeding these, they are garbage food items essentially. plus their Ca ratio is *very* unbalanced .... they act as "anticalcium" unless dusted, which I doubt these are.


Freeze drying doesn't make more protein, but what it does is remove moisture, which otherwise makes up a large % of the analysed item. So in other words, the % protein goes up because the total mass goes down.



Feeding so much dried stuff also cannot be good for their organs. Vets are only just starting to push "no kibble for cats" due to the low low moisture and the chronic dehydration and kidney stress that results from feeding such a diet... I noticed excessive thirst and absurdly high water consumption back when I would feed kibble to my dogs too.

 

[chris-md]

Plumsmum, you keep repeating this refrain of “if that’s all they are fed”...there are real problems with that, and i really have to push back on that point. First and foremost because the protein content is, as Steven noted, beyond what they naturally ingest, and as buggsy points out adding excessively overall fat content as well.

That alone is unacceptable. Feeding this alone and nothing else means a big fat and protein bomb.

And secondly, this suggestion is a vacuum, and doesn’t stand up to the rigors of real world.

 

[Casper223]

Plumsmum, you keep repeating this refrain of “if that’s all they are fed”...there are real problems with that, and i really have to push back on that point. First and foremost because the protein content is, as Steven noted, beyond what they naturally ingest, and as buggsy points out adding excessively overall fat content as well.

That alone is unacceptable. Feeding this alone and nothing else means a big fat and protein bomb.

And secondly, this suggestion is a vacuum, and doesn’t stand up to the rigors of real world.

Hey Chris, I definitely understand your concerns, and respect your disapproval. I had just told one of our Mods the other day, I like what Jason had to say, But didn't see him as speaking the Bible, and much of my concern is by profiting off of food, rather than preaching the proper nutrition. On Jason's behalf, in our conversations, he had spoke about live meal worms, saying that many times in the wild our birds eat them naturally. I especially like and understand his theories on Tea's, especially the original concept.

I guess the only thing I can argue about in all that's been said, is the guy isn't here to defend himself, his research, and any of his studies, so this seems to be very much a one sided conversation, (Kinda slamming someone behind their back if I'm understanding this correctly) Which myself I just don't believe in saying anything about anyone, especially when they are not here. I can say I am a big fan of his Raw Whole Food diets, he so often talks about. But in all fairness, if I was reading his page, and he decided to vent against you, I would post the same idea to Jason. I don't mean any disrespect, and I can understand the vent, But without him here to defend himself..... Well I just can't agree with that. Respectfully Sir....

 

[plumsmum2005]

Chris the answers you seek are only going to be found by contacting the person himself and see what the thinking behind this is? You can subscribe to FB Team Thrive. If you post to JC on his FB site lots of posts do not make it to the forum he will intercept. It has been a way of getting questions answered.



He has weedled his way into another same named product


https://topsparrotfood.com/products/tops-organic-dream-mix-for-parrots