I need a solution.

[bertsirkin]

Background: Boosie is an amazon parrot (1/2 blue-front, 1/2 panama) and is 35 years old - we've had her since she was 6 months old. She's always eaten a pellet diet (Lafabers).

A few years ago she started limping. xrays showed nothing conclusive, and within 6 months was back to normal.

As she's aged, she seems to prefer a flat perch. I've configured her cage to look like this, with 3 flat perches (outlined in red) and some various-size rope perches:

The problem: Parrots like to "fluff" their feathers occasionally - this sometimes includes a fair amount of body-shaking. When Boosie is on a round perch it isn't a problem, but when she's on a flat perch, there's nothing to hold on to and she sometimes falls to the bottom of the cage. She almost always sleeps now on the front flat perch (middle of the cage). Occasionally I hear a thud in the night and find that she's fallen to the bottom of the cage. So far she hasn't hurt herself, but I'm worried and am looking for a solution.

So far, I have lowered all her perches as low as I can go, as the cage door takes up a good portion of the lower cage. I don't want to replace her cage, as it takes her a LONG time to get used to anything new!

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Scott]

Not familiar with the "flat" perches, assume they are the dark brown slabs bordered by the bright red coloring? I would imagine an older parrot having balancing issues, particularly during the night.

Has Boosie visited an avian vet recently? If not, a general check with basic blood analysis may be insightful. Falling from a perch is not a normal expected behavior, and of course the risk of injury is elevated. Given her age, it is possible a touch of arthritis makes the flat perches more comfortable, with the attendant loss of grip/balance issues.

 

[SailBoat]

We have used the older style hand rails that are much wider and have a very soft (smooth) wide arc to them and then rapped them with a cloth towel sized for the perch.

Color can be very important, since white is so often used at Vet Clinics. So, what ever color your Amazons is comfortable with, that's the best color.

There are a number of different of ways of holding the towel firming in place and that will be an investigation of your part to see what you Amazon will not mess with. With our Amazon, we used diaper pins and he never touched them (located on the bottom side of the perch.

 

[bertsirkin]

I've purchased several different flat perches. The one she likes best is made of manzanita wood (I purchased from WindyCityParrot.com).

She was at the vet earlier this week. Blood work didn't show anything specific - one value was on the high end and one on the low end, but nothing specific.

She greatly prefers the flat perches, as she has the option of flat, rope or wood. It's just a problem at night, were she's fallen several times from the flat perches. It's doesn't seem to be a problem when she's on the rope or wood perch.

 

[LaurieC]

Here are a few options for inproving your bird's grip on the perches:

1) Wrap them with a small diameter (1/8"-1/4") cotton or hemp rope.

2) If either you or someone you know can sew, make a cloth cover for the perch. Having several of these will allow you to swap them out for cleaning when needed.

3) Using the tool of you choice (Dremel, router, wood carving chisel, etc.) cut shallow grooves in the perch surface to allow the bird to grip the wood.

 

[bertsirkin]

Thank you LaurieC and Sailboat - those are great suggestions. I'm going to try wrapping one perch in a thin face towel and another in twine to see which see prefers (or should I say "avoids" - I'm always amazed at how some items are rejected based on color, texture or something else that I can't discern!)

 

[GaleriaGila]

No Amazon experience here, but my Patagonian is about the age of your darling.
I'm glad to know about these issues and options just in case...
Glad you found us!

 

[bertsirkin]

Follow-up:

FWIW, nothing worked - she freaked out at anything put on her flat perch. She doesn't adapt to change easily!

I'm now investigating putting a grate just below her perches - I'd have to put it on a hinge, as the door would be below the new grate. On a hinge, I could lower the grate when needed to take her out of the cage.

Problem is, I can't find any stainless steel grates that would fit (1.5 feet x 2.5 feet). So, I'm now thinking about using either Plexiglas or very thin plywood. I'd have to put cage paper over it - not the best solution, but at least she couldn't fall very far.

As a side note, the Vet doesn't know if she has arthritis or it's a cardio issue. Apparently cardio issues can manifest themselves as foot and/or toe issues, as that part of the body is furthest from the heart.

Today, her right foot was impaired (limp and loss of dexterity) and one toe was at an angle that wasn't normal. I gave her some Avitech Herbal Bird RX Arthritis Formula (2 drops in the beak) and it seemed to help - by the end of the day her foot was no-where near as bad.

She's been fairly normal, except for the foot issue. She screams when her food cups aren't filled fast enough and when she wants a "treat". She wants out of her cage periodically and is as funny as ever.

I dread taking her back to the vet, as each time she goes there, she comes back worse than when I brought her. At this point I'm going to continue with the Avitech herbal and see how she does.

 

[JBassset]

What about a smaller night cage? I know you said you didn't want to replace her cage but perhaps new sleeping quarters are in order?

Also, what about some kind of netting instead of a grate? Just anything to reduce how far she falls?

 

[Scott]

If Boosie is eventually diagnosed with cardiac issues, ie. heart failure, ask your vet about Pimobendan. My 28yr old Eclectus displayed rapid onset symptoms of lethargy and difficulty perching. Interestingly, her blood panel roughly 4 months prior was unremarkable. My AV accurately described Pimobendan as a game changer; she acts her normal self.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimobendan

 

[Nicky76]

Or you could make her cage a "bungalow" like Archie's (he too used to fall off perches due to arthritis and gout) [emoji4]

IMG]


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[bertsirkin]

What about a smaller night cage? I know you said you didn't want to replace her cage but perhaps new sleeping quarters are in order?

Also, what about some kind of netting instead of a grate? Just anything to reduce how far she falls?

I've been looking for a "short" cage, but haven't found anything appropriate. Most short cages are very small (parakeet-sized).

 

[bertsirkin]

If Boosie is eventually diagnosed with cardiac issues, ie. heart failure, ask your vet about Pimobendan. My 28yr old Eclectus displayed rapid onset symptoms of lethargy and difficulty perching. Interestingly, her blood panel roughly 4 months prior was unremarkable. My AV accurately described Pimobendan as a game changer; she acts her normal self.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimobendan

How was your bird diagnosed? My vet is telling me that we'd have to do a sedated x-ray to determine cardiac issues, and there is a chance she may die from the sedation. Not something I want to do lightly!

 

[plumsmum2005]

Would this work for you?
Georgia Top Opening Parrot Cage

Have you tried putting some foam under some very stiff cardboard covered in newspapers over the bottom grate as a cushion to any falls?

Ask about the effects of the sedation before agreeing. Is she strong enough?

 

[bertsirkin]

Would this work for you?
Georgia Top Opening Parrot Cage

Have you tried putting some foam under some very stiff cardboard covered in newspapers over the bottom grate as a cushion to any falls?

Ask about the effects of the sedation before agreeing. Is she strong enough?

I may end up doing something like that. I can't find a good way to "hack" the cage so it works well. She often walks on the bottom of the cage, so I liked the idea of a grate, but putting foam/cardboard/paper on the bottom may be the best solution.

I'm not in favor of a sedated x-ray. The cure sounds worse than the disease.

thanks,

 

[Kentuckienne]

Look in thrift stores or recycle places for old chrome oven racks? I get these at a local recycle place that takes appliances and they let me have them for free, but I sometimes see them in thrift stores cheap.

I found a link where someone had made lots of cage accommodations for an older bird and put it under one of the "what's old for a parrot" threads....the person had made cloth shelves for perches, rectangles of pvc with the side pieces slid through tubes sewn in the cloth. Her parrot seemed to greatly prefer them to hard perches, and the slight sag in the cloth might make enough of a bowl to keep your bird from falling off during a shake.

I have some cheap floor padding, like for kid play areas or gyms, some kind of closed cell foam with a washable smooth surface. It's good to cushion falls.

Found a link: http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/how-do-you-look-after-a-bird-when-it-gets-old/

 

[bertsirkin]

Look in thrift stores or recycle places for old chrome oven racks? I get these at a local recycle place that takes appliances and they let me have them for free, but I sometimes see them in thrift stores cheap.

I found a link where someone had made lots of cage accommodations for an older bird and put it under one of the "what's old for a parrot" threads....the person had made cloth shelves for perches, rectangles of pvc with the side pieces slid through tubes sewn in the cloth. Her parrot seemed to greatly prefer them to hard perches, and the slight sag in the cloth might make enough of a bowl to keep your bird from falling off during a shake.

I have some cheap floor padding, like for kid play areas or gyms, some kind of closed cell foam with a washable smooth surface. It's good to cushion falls.

Good ideas - I also just saw a great YouTube video ([ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAnmusHDMrY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAnmusHDMrY[/ame]) with lots of good ideas. I just ordered the "Vet Wrap".

 

[plumsmum2005]

Would this work for you?
Georgia Top Opening Parrot Cage

Have you tried putting some foam under some very stiff cardboard covered in newspapers over the bottom grate as a cushion to any falls?

Ask about the effects of the sedation before agreeing. Is she strong enough?

I may end up doing something like that. I can't find a good way to "hack" the cage so it works well. She often walks on the bottom of the cage, so I liked the idea of a grate, but putting foam/cardboard/paper on the bottom may be the best solution.

I'm not in favor of a sedated x-ray. The cure sounds worse than the disease.

thanks,

Have a chat with your AV IMO.

 

[SailBoat]

What do you say if we just start all over here?

Boosie is a 35 yr old Mixed Amazon that has been on a Pellet Diet the vast majority of her life. This will put her in or around the 'center' of her natural life. She has been part of your home since she was six months old.

At present, she is presenting with stiffness in one or both of her claws, feet or legs (which or all?), which is resulting in her losing her balance at night and falling off a standard perch. To limit this you have gone to flat perches, but this type of perch is presenting an addition problem, she has no way to grip a flat perch. When she puffs and shakes she slides (likely backwards) off the flat perch.

In speaking, as part of a Clinic visit, with your Vet (Avian Certified, Avian Qualified, or Vet that works with Parrots - which one?). Your Vet is not sure as to whether Boosie is presenting with Arthritis or possible Cardiovascutar problems. Per your Vet, the x-ray did not present any clear signs of Arthritis of the Foot structure (is this a single foot or both?).

At present, your Vet is stating that to determine if your girl (DNA Verified Female?) has a Cardiovascular problem, she will need to be Sedated to allow a detailed x-ray of her heart / Air Sack Structure. This based on your Vet's statement that 'sometimes' Cardiovascular 'issues' present first /early as foot /leg problems.

I am going to guess that Boosie is a non-flier and likely has never flown for the vast majority or all of her life, Correct?

Regarding Boosie's feet, i.e. the pads on the bottom of her feet are red and puffy or gray with natural curves?

When was the last time that Boosie had a Full Blood Screen completed?


Presenting New Stuff: You will likely be faced with bringing lots of new stuff into her World in the near future. All new things should find their way into her World with time! That means, that over a couple of weeks they start in the same room and end up on her cage. This allows her introduction to new stuff.

All Parrots Slide on Flat Smooth Surfaces: Our DYH Amazon will slide backwards up to 8" (200 mm) from nothing more that a good shake. Flat surfaced perches are not designed to be sleeping perches. If your plan is to continue to use them, they will need a cover of some type. FYI: If you choose to use a towel, it has to have enough nape for their claws to hold on too.

Perch Sizes for Amazons: Boosie should have been on 1.5 up to 2.5" (38 to 63 mm) Natural Wood Branch Perches over her life. Manzanita Wood is a great choice since it has great variation along it length.

Vet Visit Documentation: Never leave a Vet Clinic without a written document that covers all tests, findings, recommendations, etc... for that visit. On a 'Sick Bird Visit' I'm luck if I can remember my own name let alone what the Vet precise finds had been!

Conclusion: It is very likely that your girl has or is developing early Arthritis in her claws, lower and upper legs. It can be slowed by getting her on proper type and size Natural Wood Branch Perches. The flat perches will work, but you will need to create a surface for her claws to hold onto.

It is possible that your 'non-flighted' Amazon is or has developed minor cardiovascular problems. This needs to be verified by a Certified Avian Vet with a combination of several tests including a full-spectrum blood screen and 'possibly' an x-ray if the blood screen presents indicators. FYI: Scotts recommendation of Pimobenden is a solid recommendation!

In all honestly, I am more concern about her general lack of activity at her age, then the issue regarding falling from the flat perches. Yes, falling is never a good thing, but it is more an indicator of an underlying issue.

STOP! Do not freak-out! This is based on your very general information and my past experiences. This all needs to be first examined by a Certified Avian Vet! Please assure that that visit occurs in the very near future.


Please understand! I have written this not only for you, but also the other members of the Forum and those guests that stop by for information. Hence, there are references to things that you already know!

 

[Scott]

If Boosie is eventually diagnosed with cardiac issues, ie. heart failure, ask your vet about Pimobendan. My 28yr old Eclectus displayed rapid onset symptoms of lethargy and difficulty perching. Interestingly, her blood panel roughly 4 months prior was unremarkable. My AV accurately described Pimobendan as a game changer; she acts her normal self.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimobendan

How was your bird diagnosed? My vet is telling me that we'd have to do a sedated x-ray to determine cardiac issues, and there is a chance she may die from the sedation. Not something I want to do lightly!

I totally understand your reticence for anesthesia. Always a risk, though there is a difference between deep and lengthy sedation for surgery vs a brief period for X-Rays. Angel was diagnosed by virtue of a rapid and faint heartbeat, lethargy, and an additional blood panel. No imaging required. Her AV is highly experienced, board certified, and very ethical.

This is my thread created to better describe the issue. Have a look if interested! http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/63907-heart-disease-cautionary-tale.html