How to train your partner?

[Thingamagigs]

So I am going to rant on a little bit here... because I am absolutely at my wits end. I am stressed over assessments I have due back soon (ironically for a mental health course I am doing! lol) and I need someone to teach me how to teach my partner to not be so horrible with animals. (see below for details).

I have been an animal lover for a loooong time. No, even that does not describe it well enough. I was born to a mother who did not want children and my father being a cop was away in the city 6 out of 7 days. We lived in the country and I wasn't just raised around animals... my mother ignored me most of the time... and animals were my only companions. I grew up interacting with animals more than humans, to the point if someone came to the farm I would run and hide underneath the house. My closest companion was a huge lovable protective rottweiler named Brutus. We had many dogs and livestock but aside from animals we owned I made friends with wild birds, possums, skinks and monitors. To say I understood animals better than humans was an understatement. I was probably as close to a feral child as possible in this country LOL I probably would have been right at home with the indigenous kids. When my mother decided it was time to go to school, it was the biggest shock of my life. She dressed me up and put me on a bus with strangers, I was literally kicking, screaming and biting... and even held onto the handrail and refused to let go. The bus driver had to pry my fingers off the rail while my mother pulled. I can only imagine what a sight I was! I refused to stay in class and would just wander off, or just never come back after lunch. It wasn't until I made human friends in grade 3 that I actually started to stay in class and become "domesticated" LOL

Anyway... animals are second nature. Understanding them comes easily. So when I meet someone who has next to no animal skills I do have a bit of trouble coming to terms with it and looking at it from their perspective. Unfortunately my partner is one of those people. He is completely and hopelessly unintuitive.
I used to train and rehabilitate dogs for a living (and for the love of it). That involved bringing home troubled dogs and reconstructing their lives so they began to trust and learn appropriate behaviours. That flew out the door when I met my partner. I warned him that animals were my life and I would never ever be without them. He accepted that immediately and has never had a problem with me taking on any animal I wanted.
The drama began when I took on a pair of dogs for rehabilitation... thats when I realised I couldn't continue to train and rehabilitate animals with my partner. He does everything in the book you can imagine to cultivate an anixious and demanding animal and then he has no patience for it.
When they bark/scream/whine/peep he immediately without fail acknowledges them. He does this from day one and without fail... to the point every dog I attempted rehab with while we have been together has developed excessive vocalisations (whining, yipping, barking).
I have a medical condition that is worsened by stress... the stress of trying to train my partner while rehabilitating animals (some in dire need) got to the point I ended up in hospital. I have lasting neurological damage as a result and I was forced to make a heartbreaking choice... give up what I love... either my partner or my dog training. I chose to give up dog training. I figured I would just get a pup of my own and have one dog for the rest of my life. Well you can imagine what happened there... a whining puppy at night? I had to have my heart broken all over again and gave her away to a lady down the road because my partner could not be told to just leave her and the stress of sleepless nights was again taking its toll.
I accepted I could no longer have dogs at all... a piece of my heart forever gone.

I decided birds where a fabulous option, I adored my galah Larrikan and while they can be noisy during the day, once in bed most birds sleep happily through the night. And I was right, birds are a fabulous option, they make me so happy
But my partner has reinforced screaming for both our birds also. I make progress during the day while he is gone... and then discover when I come home from college that he has come home early... and everything I worked so hard for is undone. This is a small issue compared to a dog barking or howling/whining all day and night... but its still enough to pierce my brain while I try to study during the day. So if I can get my partner to stop being horrible with reinforcing bad behaviours then I'm going to give it a go! lol

I need someone to teach me how to teach him to be better with animals. He just does everything wrong. When Mana bites a bit too hard or chews on his chair, he flinches and waves a hand at her (he doesn't hit her, he just waves his hand around like he has tourettes!!)... she is now flighty when a hand is moving around her. He doesn't understand the impact his actions have. Mana has bonded to him, so when he is gone she peeps and screams all day long, any time she hears a noise that may indicate he is home in another room. Because she is bonded to him and is now afraid of waving hands, trying to collect her to go back in her cage when she knows she is doing something I don't like is a slow and painful process that I am only going to be able to correct with clicker training to undo everything he has done

Help?? LOL How can I make him stop being an idiot? He loves mana to pieces but he just does not get training. In part he is just too lazy to be consistent.

 

[Akraya]

My partner is the same with my parrots! I haven't worked a way around this yet it's difficult for sure. Sorry I have no answers, I just didn't want to leave you with no replies, hang in there.

 

[wenz2712]

I wish I had an answer for you, but I dont

It sounds like you have had alot of trauma in your life and this situation is just adding to it

All I can do is send you a hug and hope you can work your way through this.

 

[Thingamagigs]

Ha ha if anyone figures it out, let me know!!
Thanks for replying guys

Akraya... maybe its a common thing? There aren't many guys with a talent for animals are there...

Wenz... thanks for the hugs I've probably led a pretty weird life by most peoples standards, what I have mentioned doesn't even cover half of it lol. Unfortunately my upbringing and the years that followed have shaped me into a person other people find too ... disturbing, I'm far too calm and forthright. I get accused of having no emotions, but that is akin to accusing a bird of having no emotions/feelings just because they are not human.
It would be great to have a little peace for once. lol

 

[goalerjones]

The nature of your relationship is at the heart of this. If it is committed and of value on both side, then problems can be overcome, big or small. If however the relationship is casual on either end or both, then there is no reason to change, and no strength to get you past the rough spots.

Be honest with yourself about the true nature of your relationship. Then if it can bear serious discussion, proceed with the issues you are having.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I'm sorry to ask, but is he just stupid? I'm assuming you've already thoroughly talked to him and told him what he should and should not do. Maybe you should get him a shock collar, when you see him about to reinforce a bad behavior ZAP. lol just kidding of course

If I were you I would just sit down with him and explain things to him again. If he still doesn't get it talk to him about a quite thing to tell him he is doing something wrong. Like a squirt bottle, poking him with a stick, or something that won't get the attention of the birds.

 

[Thingamagigs]

You are absolutely right goalerjones... had I known about this in the beginning it definitely would have impacted the relationship.
But I was actually recovering from my initial diagnosis and hospital admission when I met him and I had not been rehabing dogs for about a year... I had no pets of my own as a result (other than reptiles... but there is no vocalisations for concern there lol) and we temporarily moved to a mining town with the hopes of making money LOL

So as fate would have it, for the first two years of our relationship there was no opportunity to test him with animals. I honestly never dreamed it would be an issue. He couldn't wait to have dogs, he was thrilled with the idea, apparently.
We finally moved back to Brisbane and I got back into training and thats when I discovered it. Now, we have been together 4 years and he is a fabulous father to my daughter (although I see similar issues with her, his lack of patience shows through here too) and I haven't been in a relationship that has been as easy. He is less affected by my lack of obvious emotion and independence than any other partner I have been with. Otherwise I never would have given up dogs for anyone else.
Regardless... its still a point of concern.

Copperarabian... LOL! When I am mad... "Stupid man!"
I do think it is laziness and selfishness. He is a lovely man, but he is very self centred, raised by an italian mother who showered him with TOO much, to the point he hates her for micromanaging his life. But he does expect to have everything done for him and if he has to put effort into anything it is just too much. I might give the water bottle thing a go I just emailed him the rules... hopefully a written copy will help motivate.

 

[BillsBirds]

Attention Ladies...this is NOT just a man thing! My wife has had bird behavior explained to her over & over for many years, with many birds. She still treats them like dogs & expects the results you would get from a dog. And still does not understand what they need & want. Which causes a great deal of frustration, for us & the birds. She, too, will undo & undermine so many things that I try to teach to rehabilitate my birds. To the point that I insist she not interfere with my rescues & rehabs. I warn her that they may bite. She's afraid of that, and leaves them alone until she sees they are tamed, or they become part of our forever flock. I hear this from so many people whose partners have no clue. It's a lot more prevalent than any of us wish. Good luck with your spouses. BTW...She just read this over my shoulder, and now, "Let the games begin!"

 

[Kiwibird]

I guess you really need to explain the importance of not reinforcing these negative behaviors, and step by step instructions on what to do/not do. Explain to him like you would to a child, in the most basic way possible so that there is no chance he could misinterpret what you're saying. Keep in mind, not everyone is an "animal" person, and not everyone has the kind of patience/understanding animals need. And with parrots especially, they are a world away behaviorally/care wise than other pets, and are generally misunderstood by those inexperienced with them.

My hubby isn't an animal person either. He wasn't thrilled when we moved in together that I came with my gecko and bearded dragon, and wanted nothing to do with them care wise. When I approached the subject of adopting a parrot, he wasn't terribly excited about that either. I think he bit his tongue on it, since my beardie had died of old age and I missed my parents birds terribly since I moved out of their house. When we first got Kiwi, he was very inexperienced, and did some things I absolutely wanted to flip out on him over (like squirting/yelling at him when he squawked, forgetting to give him his fruits/veggies when he fed him ect...). I knew he was completely inexperienced with parrots, and in general wasn't fond of pets (he allowed it for my sake). Instead, I guided him towards what were more appropriate reactions to Kiwi's negative behaviors so both of them could be happy. I explained squirting him would make him untrusting, and that ignoring or distracting him were better, and that fruits and veggies were a must in his diet, and that only seed would make him unhealthy. I used the most basic explanations possible. He did listen to me, and funny enough, him and Kiwi are now great buddies. Kiwi loves my husband (though he was suppose to be mine), and I think my husband learning how to act towards Kiwi and earning that love and trust has made him start really liking animals. Best of luck, and just keep on working with the both of them. They will be friends someday

 

[goalerjones]

I love my kids, my wife and Hahnzel. However, the dogs are a different story. I do love them, but wanted a more "hands off" approach. I found out its all or nothing when it comes to german shepherds. I am now on board with being active in the dogs life as well but it took this to get me there:

 

[Pinkbirdy]

I love my kids, my wife and Hahnzel. However, the dogs are a different story. I do love them, but wanted a more "hands off" approach. I found out its all or nothing when it comes to german shepherds. I am now on board with being active in the dogs life as well but it took this to get me there:

Oh my thats not good [dog bites hurt]

 

[WharfRat]

brutal honesty, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".... Some people don't get it nor will they ever, just a a fact of life. I'm a GSD guy from WAY back, maybe that's why I do well with birds. I've also handled numerous other animals over the years and been fascinated by them all. I even do well with cats but I really don't care for them (spare the flames please). I have been attacked by dogs (including GSD's) at least 3 times and was lucky to escape 1 certain attack by reflex alone. I am tenacious and refuse to give up when it comes to animals. Dang, reminds me, I need to tell my Bison story :54:

 

[Thingamagigs]

Thanks for all the help guys!! I seriously took all of your info on board and had a good think about it last night.

This was a bit of a "lightbulb moment" for me.

brutal honesty, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".... Some people don't get it nor will they ever, just a a fact of life.

It's not that I had never considered it, but it helped me to accept it. It's easy to get stuck in your own head and your own understanding of the world.
It's not an easy thing to accept, especially from my point of view. It goes against so much of what I stand for. I love learning and change, I love animals and I always try to think about how my actions affect my animals and family. And there is nothing that makes me happier than doing something to make those I love happy. I get up early on sundays to make heart shaped pancakes with berries, honey and frozen yoghurt for my human family... I make the birds berry smoothies and corn on the cob plus a few little mini coin sized pancakes/crepes which I make out of the dregs at the bottom of the bowl.
I don't even eat pancakes LOL
People wonder why I do things like this, I can't understand why they don't! Why is an hour of effort too much to ask for those we love? And so why is it too much to ask for 30 seconds of effort from my partner to not make a sound when one of the birds is screaming? THAT is something I will admittedly never get my head around.
He knows he isn't supposed to, but he is annoyed that he needs to make the effort in the first place. You are right, I think it comes down to not only having no experience... but also having no talent for it and no interest in it.
He loves the animals, as long as they aren't inconveniencing him in any way. And there are a lot of things he absolutely refuses to make an effort with. But that is also true of other areas in his life.

The email was fabulous. Because it was written in front of him it was easy for him to read and get the point that it was important. We had to have a conversation so he understood... and that's where all of your help came in handy.

I sat down and explained to him very clearly what the situation was. I had to keep myself on track because I am inclined to assume they got the message first time around. I asked for feedback so I knew he understood... but it was clear he didn't understand. He is prone to over-dramatising when he has made a mistake as well and put it immediately down to a personality flaw... I had to explain that I understand he has no background in animals and understanding them is difficult... but that all he needs to do is ask, or follow my direction. I explained I would not be without pets, I couldn't do it and I would not stand for having to rehome MORE pets because he didn't want to put in a little effort.

He said something at that point that utterly knocked the air out of me.
He said "Honestly, I don't care what happens to Mana, she is just a bird. You can rehome her if you like and just get a new one."
I honestly felt like I had been punched in the chest! I was mad and heartbroken and speechless. I had a very quick think on the spot, excused myself "because I desperately needed to go to the bathroom", so I could have a good think about it alone.
He comes from a completely different background, where that kind of thinking would have been fundamental. Family obviously comes first, animals are just animals... like an entertainment or possession and not a part of the family. He will probably never understand how I feel about them.

When I came back, I explained to him how none of our difficulties with animals have been the animals fault... and if I was to rehome her and "get a new one" the same thing would happen. Again and again each animal would have the same issue, no matter how well behaved the animal was... because he reinforces the same negative behaviour. I pointed out each animal that had come into our possession had ALL developed the same issue... even though they were vastly different species! I pointed out that ALL new animals call out in their own way, according to their species, when they go to a new home. The only way to deal with it is to not acknowledge any negative sounds and to only acknowledge sounds and behaviours that you want them performing.
He became pretty angry at that point, before he could escalate I simply said in an assertive voice... "I refuse to go through a succession of animals, because you have no intention of putting in a little effort!"
Why is it, that no matter how calm, rational, reasonable, careful and gentle I am explaining something to him.... when I am loud and mean is the only time I am able to get the point across and he is suddenly remorseful? If he was a dog, I would say he required stronger leadership than gentle guidance was offering LOL

I think the nature of this man is that he needs a big bold slap across the face with the information... otherwise like a naughty boy he just rolls his eyes and shrugs it off LOL Its not typically my style (believe it or not ) so having to make a big song and dance of something goes against my nature.
I'm trying to think of a word for it... I am excessively forgiving? Move on too quickly? Don't hold grudges? I expect people to have empathy and understand how their actions impact others so never make much of a deal of it and move on and forgive reeeeally easily. There has to be a word for it???
It's like a kind of perpetual naivety. It's not a good thing, for me especially but not for those who have made the mistake either. It perpetuates people's perceptions that I do not have feelings of my own and they never really suffer any consequences for their actions and are prone to repeating their mistakes. Next thing they know I am walking out of the relationship and they feel they don't know why.

I honestly don't know where to go from here. He is not abusive to the birds but I know how it is affecting them regardless. You all no doubt can imagine it yourselves. I wonder if it is cruel for them to live with him. Mana adores him and has bonded to him so wants to spend most of her time with him. But I feel like he torments her. She certainly suffers to some degree because of his reactions to her and it is incredibly frustrating! When she is on his lap and he doesn't want her there anymore, he just stands up and allows her to fall off. I have talked to him about this until I am blue in the face but he refuses to work with her properly because its too much effort. I can't keep her away from him, because she adores him.
What does everyone think? I want what is best for my birds. He is a grown man capable of looking after himself so if he isn't willing to make an effort thats his problem. I would appreciate any advice anyone could give on what I could do to minimise or eliminate his affects on Mana especially. It's no issue with Sheldon.

I had been working with animals my entire life and have always been able to rehab problem barkers. I have also never in my life reinforced a negative behaviour in any of my own pets... dogs, cats or birds.
I understood my dogs so well, I had traditionally difficult breeds working with me offlead in public with other dogs. A feat that breeders of those breeds marveled at. I competed in dog handling competitions with the most difficult and notorious breeds on purpose... even taking a Novice Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever into the finals. The finals, by the way, were nationally televised... because his breed had never been seen in a dog handling competition before there was a fair bit of interest in him. So one of the camera men decided it would be great to get a close up shot... no one mentioned this to me before hand however and as fate would have it I was paying attention to the judges instructions just as the camera guy rolled the camera over right in front of my dog. It took the dog by surprise and he did an amazing somersault on the spot and let out a noise of complete surprise... a growl combined with a bark combined with a yelp... and in that instant my chances at placing were over LOL! I wish I had the footage, it would have been hilarious.

Anyway... all information greatly appreciated (also interested in this story about the bison! lol)

 

[Featheredsamurai]

Could you please tell us some of your partners good traits? I feel like I dislike him soooo much I need to know there is a man in there who deserves a wonderful caring woman like you.

No matter what don't get rid of your babies, you looove your birds and re-homing them would be utterly heart breaking for you AND them.

If I was in your place I would say "hey, these animals are my family, and if you aren't willing to treat them with more respect (as in respecting their family status, and obeying the rules you have set) I'm not sure if we're going to work out."
That is very harsh, but "Honestly, I don't care what happens to Mana, she is just a bird. You can rehome her if you like and just get a new one." is EQUALLY as harsh. He just told you he doesn't care whether you keep your feathered kid or not. Tell him if he doesn't take his spoiled pants off and put on a pair of big kid pants he is going to get a harsh reality check.

 

[cthulhus_minion]

Ha ha if anyone figures it out, let me know!!
Thanks for replying guys

Akraya... maybe its a common thing? There aren't many guys with a talent for animals are there...

Wenz... thanks for the hugs I've probably led a pretty weird life by most peoples standards, what I have mentioned doesn't even cover half of it lol. Unfortunately my upbringing and the years that followed have shaped me into a person other people find too ... disturbing, I'm far too calm and forthright. I get accused of having no emotions, but that is akin to accusing a bird of having no emotions/feelings just because they are not human.
It would be great to have a little peace for once. lol

That's not right, I'm a guy and most every dog that meets me loves me. I've trained some dogs ever since I was a kid (border collies and other herding dogs) anyway birds was a learning curve for me but I've gotten alot better after doing some research. I don't know what to tell you, handling animals came natural for me too. Some people can work well with animals and some can't. Just do you best to be patient and try to teach him how you deal with them. But lots of people have different but right ways of dealing with animals, maybe look at different ways and see if one of them makes sense to him and one he can do.

 

[Thingamagigs]

I am now on board with being active in the dogs life as well but it took this to get me there:

ouch! Bites have done the opposite for my partner. Due to the occasional soft nip from Mana, he refuses to try to get her to step up and lets her fall off his lap instead.

I guess you really need to explain the importance of not reinforcing these negative behaviors, and step by step instructions on what to do/not do. Explain to him like you would to a child, in the most basic way possible so that there is no chance he could misinterpret what you're saying. Keep in mind, not everyone is an "animal" person, and not everyone has the kind of patience/understanding animals need. And with parrots especially, they are a world away behaviorally/care wise than other pets, and are generally misunderstood by those inexperienced with them.
...
When we first got Kiwi, he was very inexperienced, and did some things I absolutely wanted to flip out on him over (like squirting/yelling at him when he squawked, forgetting to give him his fruits/veggies when he fed him ect...).
...
Best of luck, and just keep on working with the both of them. They will be friends someday

You are right! Birds especially require a lot of patience and understanding.
My partner has squirted the birds as well! I think he got the idea from copying me (in a way). When Mana has a case of the galah sillies and I have a headache, I go get the water bottle and give her a shower. Not in a negative way, the bottle is on mist spray and she loves her showers But its a distraction from the galah sillies and has no chance of reinforcing a behaviour. I think he saw me do that and combined it with the course of action I took for a dog I was rehabing a loooong time ago.
It was a whippet, they are notorious for being easily spooked. He had a badly bruised wrist joint, bruised right down to the bone. It needed to be put in a cast for a couple of weeks. Well he wanted to chew on his cast of course, but because of his very nervous and submissive nature even walking over to him caused him stress. So I used a spray bottle on a fine jet to distract him from chewing the cast. I also discovered his love for water this way The beach became a big part of his therapy.
I do have to say... although he went away with a howling problem based on separation anxiety reinforced by my partner... he ended up being bold, confident and outgoing. The vets were amazed with his progress, he was the most outgoing whippet they had ever met. <3 I chose his home carefully, with someone who worked from home and had another dog. They drove 12 hours to pick him up!!
I miss dogs, I really do.

Mana ADORES my partner. When I see them interact, it looks like he loves her as well. He just acts foolishly around her. They are definitely friends... but its like an abusive relationship LOL She loves him, but he's no good for her.

Attention Ladies...this is NOT just a man thing! I hear this from so many people whose partners have no clue. It's a lot more prevalent than any of us wish. Good luck with your spouses.
...
BTW...She just read this over my shoulder, and now, "Let the games begin!"

OOPS! You are absolutely right! Its not just a man thing... its easy to generalise when its men who Im mostly dating... but I am certain it is spread evenly across both sexes. I should have said, there are few people who are good with animals

And also... sorry about the wife LOL I will bring flowers to your funeral.

OK...an outlet for your dog training can be to volunteer at a rescue or freelance with dog owners away from the house (at the shelter or at the dog park or in people's homes). The man is a more difficult subject ( I am one and I have one) you have my sympathies.
...
Use your behavior modification techniques on him, they are just as effective...reward when he does well (a kiss, a treat, a well placed scratch) but call him out when he doesn't. Have the conversation first and warn him he is about to be clicker trained though!

That is a very good suggestion! I would if I had the time, perhaps after studying. I am currently doing a course in mental health because I intended to help humans more this time around.
Maybe my situation is good practice? LOL
I am training to do counselling within the disability and mental health sector of public health. The job no one wants to do I secretly hope I can combine a little pet therapy within my job as well. I have trained a couple of assistance dogs over the years and the amount they improve people's lives is tremendous.

LOL love your training suggestions! I should give them a go.

I even do well with cats but I really don't care for them (spare the flames please)

That pretty much sums up how I feel about cats lol I have even owned a couple over the years.
But they are also an ecological disaster over here in Australia... a disaster no one wants to pick up the pieces from.

 

[WharfRat]

thingmagigs, this is just gonna boil down to a personal decision for you eventually, you're gonna have to choose between animal and person. I was actually brought to this before in a relationship. Looking back I made the wrong choice (15 years ago or so) I chose the woman over the dog, I won't do that again, the dog was far more loyal to me than her. All I can add at this point.

 

[cthulhus_minion]

Also maybe have a bird room where some of the noise would be blocked? And I think you are taking it too personal, he just doesn't understand. He's not doing it to be mean I don't think. Separation between him and the birds would probably be best for the moment and slowly and supervised help him with the birds while you are there. That way you can show him what's good and what's bad but if that doesn't help, separating the birds and him as much as you can would be the best way to deal with it. That's my opinion.

 

[Thingamagigs]

Could you please tell us some of your partners good traits? I feel like I dislike him soooo much I need to know there is a man in there who deserves a wonderful caring woman like you.

No matter what don't get rid of your babies, you looove your birds and re-homing them would be utterly heart breaking for you AND them.

If I was in your place I would say "hey, these animals are my family, and if you aren't willing to treat them with more respect (as in respecting their family status, and obeying the rules you have set) I'm not sure if we're going to work out."
That is very harsh, but "Honestly, I don't care what happens to Mana, she is just a bird. You can rehome her if you like and just get a new one." is EQUALLY as harsh. He just told you he doesn't care whether you keep your feathered kid or not. Tell him if he doesn't take his spoiled pants off and put on a pair of big kid pants he is going to get a harsh reality check.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing... I truly believed he loved her. He goes straight to her the second he gets home. He takes her out the second he gets up. To hear him say that shattered everything I believed. To be honest my initial reaction was "if he feels this way about her, what about my daughter and I?"

He does have good traits. He is funny and easy to get along with. He is clean and reasonably tidy. He is really great with my daughter... I am fairly sure he is faithful. LOL
I occasionally wonder whether my high opinion of a lot of people is a result of past experience with some horrific examples of human beings.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Thingamagigs, it took my husband 20 years to understand that (for me) when one of my pets dies, it is as utterly painful as a human relative dying.

This may sound harsh, but my animals come first. I would choose them over him any day. It took me a while to get there, but I'm with Wharfrat on that one. The animals have proven to be more loyal than he is.