How can I get her to listen?

[Frumpydumple]

As some of you know, my mother has two parrots, an African Grey and a Sun Conure. Well, both of them scream almost non-stop all day, everyday. The reason they scream so much is because both my parents won't stop giving them attention when they scream. I have told them for MONTHS not to reinforce it, but they don't ever listen. This has created a very bad screaming problem with both birds. My bird, Cookie, is the perfect example of a very well trained bird. She doesn't scream or bite, ever. (hard to believe, but its true).

Norman (CAG) is 8 years old and he is not tame, he bites when stepping up, lunges at you sometimes and he sometimes just bites randomly with no warning. I can see what problems he has, and I can see exactly how the problems should be fixed. My mother is really scared of him and won't train him. She won't even do some simple target training because she is scared she will fail.

Norman is also overweight and on a seed diet with only some fruit as an extra. We did buy some soaked seed, but she never gives her birds any. We also buy vegetables, but she never really gives either of her birds any of those either. This is worrying to me having both of them on such an awful diet.

I'm 99% sure my bird, Cookie, has liver disease now, and she has been well cared for.

She was on seed for two years, she was lucky to get fruit sometimes, I had no idea how to care for birds back when I got her, but then I found amazing websites like this and I quickly found out that seed was bad, so I brought the best pellets I could find (Harrison's) and I gave her them, it took two weeks of giving her seed in the evening, pellets the rest of the day, and it worked.

She molted soon after giving her them, and all those horrible yellow and white feathers were molted out and turned in to beautiful soft, shiny green feathers.

But over time, she lost those beautiful feathers and they turned into oily green feathers with lots of feather bronzing.

What I thought I cured seems to have came back worse. She is showing more and more signs of liver problems. I can't drive and my parents won't take her to an Avian vet right now, but I'm going to try to help her the best I can for now, I'm going to buy her some aloe detox and I'm going to let her wings grow out so she can get some exercise.

What I'm saying is, if my bird got liver disease that easily, my mother's birds could be on their way to the same thing. Especially since Norman is overweight.

Erik is pretty tame with my mother (sometimes he is tame with my father too), but he will fly and attack anyone else (including me).

He did have his wings clipped and I could be in the room with him then, but they have grown back now, so I'm forced to stay out the way while he is out.

I don't really like wing clipping unless its really needed (although I'm not against it), and I do think for other people's safety, Erik should be clipped, at least for now so I can help my mother train him while I'm in the room.

Erik was better when he was clipped. He quickly adapted to it and he didn't seem to mind.

Erik is also on a seed diet with only some fruit, luckily, he doesn't seem to be overweight, but he is still on a terrible diet.

She never does anything with them really, she just keeps saying "I'm trying" and it is just really frustrating for me.

She does love and care for her birds, but she could be doing much better, she simply won't.

My sister also lives with us, she has really bad anxiety and she can't take loud noises, she gets panic attacks every time the birds scream (which happens very often) she hates birds and she wants my parents to re-home them but they won't.

The birds screaming doesn't bother me, but after a while, I feel like I don't want to live anymore.

My parents always seem to put the birds first and they would never re-home them, even if it is for the best. I understand that my mother loves her birds, I love my bird to death, but shouldn't she put her children first, not her birds?

Re-homing them would be much better for them.

SO...basically, what I'm trying to say is my mother won't train them, won't put them on a better diet, and won't stop reinforcing the screaming.

How do I get her to put them on a better diet, train them and stop reinforcing the screaming?

What can I possibly do to make her listen?

Any advice would be very appreciated.

 

[Sterling1113]

Have you tried showing her(use graphic images if you must) what can happen to a bird that is not receiving the nutrients it should?

Like what they do in anti-smoking ads. "This is a healthy lung. This is a smokers lung." Only, "This is healthy liver. This is a liver of a bird fed mostly seeds. You're chopping the life span in half."

I usually wouldn't do that, but in this case, if your mother won't change anything even for your sister who suffers panic attacks(I do too. I can't do loud noises. I have awful anxiety and panic attacks to I really sympathize.) maybe you just need to scare her into the reality of the situation.

I wish I had better advice to offer. Some people are so hard headed that they're "doing their best" and it's hard to convince them otherwise. Best of luck

 

[Frumpydumple]

I haven't shown her graphic images, but I will try that. I just want her birds to have a better life. I do suffer from anxiety with loud noises too, just not as bad as my sister, and normally its only really bad if there is loud noises that go on for a long time.

Its just so frustrating that she just won't do anything at all.

 

[Sterling1113]

I understand. I wish I had more advice to offer. Mine is almost immediately, as soon as the sound starts. (So fire alarms are my worst nightmare.) But luckily it's not something I deal with often, and the noise level of my conures isn't enough to trigger it.

How's Cookie? You mentioned you needed to take her to the vet. I'm sorry there's delays in getting her there, I hope she doesn't have any liver issues, and that she makes a speedy recovery from whatever symptoms have been appearing.

She's got a good momma, though. Is there anyway you'd have time to take over the feeding of the other two birds? Like just take a day out of every week to make pre-made baggies of frozen veggies that you(or your mom) can thaw out and give the birds once or twice a day? That's what I do since my ekkie lives at my dad's house. I pre-bag his meals.

 

[thekarens]

Just my .02 but if my kids are over 18 (which they are) they can feel free to move out if they don't like my pets. I've always had the rule for my children that when they graduate high school they either go to college, move out, or stay and pay rent and follow my house rules. If they are underage that's a different story.

 

[RavensGryf]

Have you had a blood panel done on Cookie? That would be much more comprehensive than anything else. I've seen birds' systems actually "correct" themselves after being on Harrison's.
Also, I'm skeptical that two years on a seed diet is long enough to ruin health. Of course it wasn't optimal, but typically that's not long enough to do any real damage, especially not permanent. Then again everyone's system is different, and maybe some are less hardy genetically to begin with. Who knows. I'd get a blood panel and discuss with vet if you haven't already.
Good luck with your parents and their birds Emily. Unfortunately people don't change real easily.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Emily, didn't your mum just recently open up an account here? I'd let her read all about your concerns if you are unable to discuss them with her personally.

 

[CrimsonFeathers]

I would do everything I possibly could to educate her on bird care. Not just physical health but their mental health as well. I have 3 conures and I am also a certified Avian Specialist. I know with my experience with my conures that they are so calm and quiet and happy when all of their needs are met. They need a variety of fresh vegetables, cooked vegetables and beans, fresh or frozen fruit, walnuts, almonds are a favorite here. I also give my birds natural color Zupreem pellets. I have had the best luck feeding my conures this type of diet. When they have a wonderful diet to look forward to each day they are happy.
We also need to pay attention to their mental happiness. They are very smart birds and need to challenge their brain to be content while their day is spent in a cage. Move their food dishes to different locations. Have stimulating foraging devices to hang or attach to their cage so they have to work for their food. Different textures of toys to play with in their cage. Paper, leather, bells, willow wreaths that they can swing on and chew up. My birds are absolutely crazy over natural leather to chew on. If they use up all the leather toys and leather strips in their cage they sure holler to let me know I need to replace them and NOW. I think if your Mom affords her birds the diet and toys and stimulation they need she will have a much quieter and happier bird and home.

 

[Frumpydumple]

I understand. I wish I had more advice to offer. Mine is almost immediately, as soon as the sound starts. (So fire alarms are my worst nightmare.) But luckily it's not something I deal with often, and the noise level of my conures isn't enough to trigger it.

How's Cookie? You mentioned you needed to take her to the vet. I'm sorry there's delays in getting her there, I hope she doesn't have any liver issues, and that she makes a speedy recovery from whatever symptoms have been appearing.

She's got a good momma, though. Is there anyway you'd have time to take over the feeding of the other two birds? Like just take a day out of every week to make pre-made baggies of frozen veggies that you(or your mom) can thaw out and give the birds once or twice a day? That's what I do since my ekkie lives at my dad's house. I pre-bag his meals.

Sorry to hear that. I know how awful it can be.


Cookie is ok, she seems to be getting more symptoms of liver disease, when I put her on her back she seems to have tremors sometimes, she lost a feather yesterday, it was half red and half black, her feathers feel oily, her nails keep growing really fast, I just cut them two weeks ago and they are already sharp again. I gave her some healthy fruit and vegetables today.

I could do that, she does feed them, just not a big enough variety. I'm making Cookie and my mother's birds some soaked seed today, so they can all have that when its ready tomorrow.

 

[Frumpydumple]

I would do everything I possibly could to educate her on bird care. Not just physical health but their mental health as well. I have 3 conures and I am also a certified Avian Specialist. I know with my experience with my conures that they are so calm and quiet and happy when all of their needs are met. They need a variety of fresh vegetables, cooked vegetables and beans, fresh or frozen fruit, walnuts, almonds are a favorite here. I also give my birds natural color Zupreem pellets. I have had the best luck feeding my conures this type of diet. When they have a wonderful diet to look forward to each day they are happy.
We also need to pay attention to their mental happiness. They are very smart birds and need to challenge their brain to be content while their day is spent in a cage. Move their food dishes to different locations. Have stimulating foraging devices to hang or attach to their cage so they have to work for their food. Different textures of toys to play with in their cage. Paper, leather, bells, willow wreaths that they can swing on and chew up. My birds are absolutely crazy over natural leather to chew on. If they use up all the leather toys and leather strips in their cage they sure holler to let me know I need to replace them and NOW. I think if your Mom affords her birds the diet and toys and stimulation they need she will have a much quieter and happier bird and home.

That's great advice. I'll tell her to try some of this.

 

[Sterling1113]

Well it seems like you're already doing anything/everything you can for them. I assume you still live with family, yeah? Maybe when you move(if the condition hasn't improved) you can talk your mom into letting you adopt her birds since she doesn't want to care for them?
That's only if you want/can take the responsibility, of course. You don't want to put yourself in a situation you can't handle. No need for that kind of stress.

I don't know the symptoms, but it doesn't sound like much fun. Hopefully it's just something minor.

 

[Frumpydumple]

Emily, didn't your mum just recently open up an account here? I'd let her read all about your concerns if you are unable to discuss them with her personally.

Yes she did. She doesn't have a lot of time to go on the forum, but she does go on here sometimes. She did read what I had written and she didn't like that I had made this thread, but I do think she feels more encouraged to try more things with her birds. She has just gave them pellets in their cage now. I have tried discussing the issues with her, but she didn't really take my advice, so I thought I could make this thread to try to help her. I thought maybe she would take other people's advice instead.

 

[Frumpydumple]

Well it seems like you're already doing anything/everything you can for them. I assume you still live with family, yeah? Maybe when you move(if the condition hasn't improved) you can talk your mom into letting you adopt her birds since she doesn't want to care for them?
That's only if you want/can take the responsibility, of course. You don't want to put yourself in a situation you can't handle. No need for that kind of stress.

I don't know the symptoms, but it doesn't sound like much fun. Hopefully it's just something minor.

Yeah, I'm not old enough to move out yet.

She does care for them, just she could do better. I probably would adopt them when I move out. Hopefully things will work out.

Cookie isn't suffering a huge amount(as far as I can tell), but it is awful seeing her feathers look so bad and seeing her chew them all the time.

I don't know if it is liver related, but there was two times where she couldn't breathe very well it seemed, like she acted fine, but she was doing this weird movement kind of where her crop is. Its hard to explain, but it looked like she had slight trouble breathing. She did it two different times and both times she did it was after she had ate.

I have heard if the liver disease gets bad enough it can cause breathing problems.

 

[Frumpydumple]

Just my .02 but if my kids are over 18 (which they are) they can feel free to move out if they don't like my pets. I've always had the rule for my children that when they graduate high school they either go to college, move out, or stay and pay rent and follow my house rules. If they are underage that's a different story.

I understand that, and I do agree, but I'm not old enough to move out yet.

 

[Frumpydumple]

Have you had a blood panel done on Cookie? That would be much more comprehensive than anything else. I've seen birds' systems actually "correct" themselves after being on Harrison's.
Also, I'm skeptical that two years on a seed diet is long enough to ruin health. Of course it wasn't optimal, but typically that's not long enough to do any real damage, especially not permanent. Then again everyone's system is different, and maybe some are less hardy genetically to begin with. Who knows. I'd get a blood panel and discuss with vet if you haven't already.
Good luck with your parents and their birds Emily. Unfortunately people don't change real easily.

No, but I would like that done. She did get MUCH better after putting her on Harrison's, but over the months she has gotten worse. I wish I could take her to a vet. I'm probably going to sell a lot of my stuff (like my camera) and then get my parents to take her.

I don't think two years on a seed diet would be bad either, but I have heard aflatoxins in seed or from peanuts can cause liver disease, and that's what I was guessing caused it. She wasn't fed a great seed mix either when I got her, so maybe it had a lot of aflatoxins and that caused the liver disease.

I just wish my parents weren't so set in their ways.

 

[MonicaMc]

You can always do target training while inside the cage. In this way, it wont matter if the bird is flighted or clipped, the only reason you'd get bit is if your hand is too close to the cage.

 

[RavensGryf]

Yeah, I'm not old enough to move out yet.

Wow Emily, I cannot tell your age by your posts, but I figured you were a young adult

 

[Frumpydumple]

Yeah, I'm not old enough to move out yet.

Wow Emily, I cannot tell your age by your posts, but I figured you were a young adult

I do seem like an adult when I post I guess. I'm pretty good with grammar and spelling, I think that might be what makes me seem older than I am. I don't know.

 

[RavensGryf]

You're right, you do have great written communication skills, but even older adults can have crappy grammar and spelling! You just seem to have a certain wisdom and maturity in your posts that are 'typically' of someone a bit older. That's a GOOD thing!

 

[Frumpydumple]

You're right, you do have great written communication skills, but even older adults can have crappy grammar and spelling! You just seem to have a certain wisdom and maturity in your posts that are 'typically' of someone a bit older. That's a GOOD thing!

Wow, that's so nice. Thanks. I do try.