HELP with high urates and vet results

[crimson]

I have a 9 month old female Lutino cockatiel. I've had her approx.1.5 months. about a week after I got her, she started showing signs of not feeling well. I had her quarantined but let her out for her daily excercise. she is on a pellet diet.

her poop became watery, day by day, then got sleepy, then puffy, and drank excessive amounts of water.
I took her to the vets, they did a gram stain at my request, along with blood work, which included biochemistry, and hematology.

results showed all within normal limits-good news. all organs are functioning normally
gram stain came back as positive bacilli
many gram negative bacilli

she was put on Baytril for 10 days and showed much improvement. However her issue never totally disappeared. she got about 80% better.
now that she has been off the Baytril for about a week, her poop is reverting back to the way it was, watery.

I am giving her Bene-Bac which is live naturally occurring microorganisms for birds. I wanted to get the good bacteria back into her. It seems to have little to no affect, although it certainly isn't hurting her right now.

so what now??, I've put another call into my vet to see where we go from here.
I am totally taped out for money, I've spent over $1000 in just 2 months, from her and some of my other birds, and just don't have any more funds at the moment.

please.. does anyone have any other suggestions. She is not in immediate danger, but is not right either.

I have posted her test results in the links below:

IMG_1610_zps29b941d8.jpg Photo by bmckellar735 | Photobucket

IMG_1609_zps4094d033.jpg Photo by bmckellar735 | Photobucket

IMG_1612_zps05256eb1.jpg Photo by bmckellar735 | Photobucket

 

[SandyBee]

I would call the vet, I know mine would prescribe a second dose or alternative medicine without charging me for another exam.
Also I would give her yogurt to counter the effects of the antibiotics.
My vet explained that the good bacteria in yogurts are better when dealing with anti biotics because birds don't have these specific ones and stuff designed for birds will not counter anti biotics effect.

 

[crimson]

thank you Sandybee

I received a call back, and other than x-rays, they suggested to put her back on Baytril for another 10 days. I am to call back half way thru to let them know if she has improved.
they felt she may have not been on it long enough.

Ruby will have to be on Baytril for another 10 days. since I got the Bene-Bac from the vets I'm going to use that up, and then continue with the yoghurt

 

[SandyBee]

My vet is the one who suggested giving yogurt. Anti biotics kill all bacteria (hopefully) yogurt replaces good bacteria culture.

My amazon wouldn't eat the yogurt though!

 

[Niner10Tango]

Are you giving your lutino meds orally with a syringe or mixed in with her food? Are you giving her only pellet? If so, have you tried giving her greens like romaine lettuce, kale, cilantro? My lutino was proned to the same infections. First the vet prescribed Cipro and she got even worse. Then they decided to try Baytril and had no problems. The first time she got very sick and the Cipro didn't work, she was hospitalized at the vets office for about 3 days. When I left for work in the morning, she was acting perfectly fine. I came home and she was at the bottom of the cage with her head down. Piper, my lutino hen was the master of hiding her illnesses. After she recovered, that's when I decided to invest in a scale. My lutino passed away a few years ago at the age of 16, but I do weigh my pied on a daily basis. I perfectly understand the pain you are feeling in the wallet. But they are so worth it.

@ SandyBee Love the yogurt suggestion.. You beat me to it!!

 

[crimson]

sorry Sandy, I missed that part of your response.
I'm going to try yoghurt and then follow up with the Bene-Bac.
thanks

 

[crimson]

Are you giving your lutino meds orally with a syringe or mixed in with her food? Are you giving her only pellet? If so, have you tried giving her greens like romaine lettuce, kale, cilantro? My lutino was proned to the same infections. First the vet prescribed Cipro and she got even worse. Then they decided to try Baytril and had no problems. The first time she got very sick and the Cipro didn't work, she was hospitalized at the vets office for about 3 days. When I left for work in the morning, she was acting perfectly fine. I came home and she was at the bottom of the cage with her head down. Piper, my lutino hen was the master of hiding her illnesses. After she recovered, that's when I decided to invest in a scale. My lutino passed away a few years ago at the age of 16, but I do weigh my pied on a daily basis. I perfectly understand the pain you are feeling in the wallet. But they are so worth it.

@ SandyBee Love the yogurt suggestion.. You beat me to it!!

My birds are totally spoiled with Kale,spinach,dandelion,all greens, variety of veggies, and fruits. also grains, beans etc...they eat better than I do
I will step up on the leafy greens with her and her mate Dexter, Dexter inhales the good stuff, but haven't really seen her eat any
the meds are given orally, twice daily

 

[Niner10Tango]

Good to hear that she is taken her meds orally.. At least you know she is getting her meds instead of putting the meds in with her food. Wishing for a speedy recovery.

My bird eats healthier than I do.. And I shop for the stuff!

 

[crimson]

Good to hear that she is taken her meds orally.. At least you know she is getting her meds instead of putting the meds in with her food. Wishing for a speedy recovery.

My bird eats healthier than I do.. And I shop for the stuff!

thanks, and so do mine!

 

[MonicaMc]

I would recommend buying some Alcohol-Free Milk Thistle Extract - in liquid form. I don't know how well the capsule form works, never used it. Give this twice a day, .1 of a cc and/or mix 1 drop per 1 oz into the drinking water, change twice daily. (I've given it straight, so I don't know how accurate that method is)

The idea is to support the liver to help detoxify the blood. I've used it with great success, but this is coming from an entirely holistic approach, and I'll freely admit my knowledge here is lacking, but I can say it works great! I have a bourke parakeet that, due to her age, is prone to getting infections. Milk thistle is what keeps her going strong! Not only does it help her get over her infections, but if supplemented frequently, keeps her from getting them.


Short of that, I would highly suggest contacting the a-vet and getting an antibiotic to treat the infection specifically, and it's usually given over a course of 2 weeks and rechecked.

Baytril is a general antibiotic, and not necessarily great to use when treating a specific infection. I would not recommend a second dose of Baytril, especially since you've already taken her off of it, and putting her back on it might do more harm than good. She needs to remain on the medication until the infection is completely gone. If she hasn't been retested for another fecal, she needs it.

 

[crimson]

the problem is we don't know exactly what specific infection she has. Baytril is very good, but like I said it has not completely gotten rid of the infection.
my line of thinking is if it hasn't kicked it in 10 days, it's probably not going to.
@ monica= with you in mind, I know your a huge advocate on milk thistle. I went to check it out and the liquid costs about $70.00....a bit pricey. I'm wondering if I can get it somewhere else including shipping and the cost+tax, = the for less than $70.00 up here.

I found this link and my heart just sank....

The exact function of the basophil is not known. Increased numbers are often associated with chronic, long tern illnesses. They also appear to play a role in the early stages of inflammation.

 

[MonicaMc]

That seems extremely ridiculous! I can find some for under $10-$20.

Tried to find something on amazon, and geeze! That's expensive! This is the closest I could find that states it's alcohol free...
[ame=http://www.amazon.ca/Pet-Wellbeing-Thistle-Natural-Supplement/dp/B00BCQQNR0/]Pet Wellbeing - Liquid Milk Thistle for Dogs - A Natural, Herbal Supplement for Liver Disease - 2 oz Bottle: Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies[/ame]


Looking around... found cheaper(?) here.
Dog Liver Disease Treatment - Milk Thistle for Dog Liver Problems

Short of ordering from the states, that's all I could find doing a short search.... I'm sorry! (I feel bad for you that you don't have as many options for things like this)


Depending on infection, it may require a minimum of 14 days on up to 45 days to treat an infection... so 10 days just seems so inadequate to me!


And Kathy in the USA does stock the avian form... although this also has dandelion in it. I haven't used one with dandelion in it (yet), just milk thistle so far...
Milk Thistle/Dandelion Herbal Extract 1 oz - SUPPLEMENTS/HEALTH AIDS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE
Milk Thistle/Dandelion Herbal Extract 2 oz - SUPPLEMENTS/HEALTH AIDS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE



Is it too much to get a second opinion? Or are there no other vets in the area who might be able to give you a second opinion?

 

[crimson]

your always so helpful Monica, much appreciated.
I'll check on line tomorrow to see what I can find along with finding out the shipping charges from my safe bird store(probably be more than the product) but if it beats a $70 bill, what the heck!~

 

[MikeyTN]

When you treat a bird with medication, there's a combination of things you should do to help them along the process. Heat and humidity being part of it. Yes yogurt is great when treating with anti-biotic. When you feed the meds, make sure they take the full dose! Syringe feeding is the best to give them the full dose of medicine! Another thing you could do to help along is to make your own batch of high protein food, I cook a boiled egg and use just the egg yolk itself and mix it with cottage cheese, I think I used to mix wheat with it too. But just the egg yolk and cottage cheese works, then I get some warm water to mix up the solution and feed it to them multiple times per day. I'm sure you have hand feeding formula available, that would do great too! They tend to drop their weight pretty quickly when sick, they would feel like skin and bones that's why you need to give high protein food to supplement. Otherwise they're not going to get better. I would also feed full seed diet right now just until she gets better. At one point I was treating 7 sick cockatiels that caught a contagious virus and they all make it out just fine after daily regimen of meds and high protein formula plus yogurt and seeds. Then after they got better, we went back to the old routine of giving all different types of food again.

 

[MonicaMc]

Whatever you end up doing, I really hope you are able to find something to help your tiel!

 

[crimson]

When you treat a bird with medication, there's a combination of things you should do to help them along the process. Heat and humidity being part of it. Yes yogurt is great when treating with anti-biotic. When you feed the meds, make sure they take the full dose! Syringe feeding is the best to give them the full dose of medicine! Another thing you could do to help along is to make your own batch of high protein food, I cook a boiled egg and use just the egg yolk itself and mix it with cottage cheese, I think I used to mix wheat with it too. But just the egg yolk and cottage cheese works, then I get some warm water to mix up the solution and feed it to them multiple times per day. I'm sure you have hand feeding formula available, that would do great too! They tend to drop their weight pretty quickly when sick, they would feel like skin and bones that's why you need to give high protein food to supplement. Otherwise they're not going to get better. I would also feed full seed diet right now just until she gets better. At one point I was treating 7 sick cockatiels that caught a contagious virus and they all make it out just fine after daily regimen of meds and high protein formula plus yogurt and seeds. Then after they got better, we went back to the old routine of giving all different types of food again.

great idea MikeyTN, I will certainly try that. You are right, when we are sick we loose weight, and it would only make sense that any animal do as well.
right now she is holding her own, not lethargic, eating drinking, not sleeping at all, and is on a seed diet at them moment. I'm giving more greens, but will give her what you suggested today.

 

[crimson]

Whatever you end up doing, I really hope you are able to find something to help your tiel!

well Monica, with the help from you, and other members, I'm hoping she will improve. she gained back all her weight and then some.
she weighed 86 g, at the vets, after the 10 day course of meds, she weighed in at 96g
I am not giving her the Baytri(against my vets advice)....
I just have a gut feeling that is not the best course of action right now.

I wish I knew which bacteria is causing the issue, gram negative or positive.
she had more gram negative in her system.
I can't figure out how she got sick, I run a clean aviary, have many birds, and all are fine.
I'm thinking she may have come in with it, and due to the stress of a new environment, it surfaced.

 

[MonicaMc]

That's very possible. At least she's put weight back on! That's a good sign in itself!