HELP - Driving Myself Crazy - Kitchen Appliances

[LauraC]

HELP!!!

I am down to the wire of having to pick kitchen appliances (fridge, slide in range/oven, dishwasher, microwave). I can’t decide on the brand. And when I ask if they are bird safe, the salespeople look at me like I am crazy.

Would love to know what brand forum members have (i.e. Ktichen Aid, Bosch, GE, etc.

Is a convention oven safe?

I figure others on the forum must have done their homework so I am hoping you can help me out.

Thanks!

 

[Scott]

Not all appliances are serious hazards. Not familiar with refrigerator issues, mine is LG "French Door" configuration. (twin refrig doors, lower slide out freezer) Stove is gas cooktop, use cast iron only. Oven is electric, and I use non stickware pans. Do *not* use self-clean setting. Microwave is GE over cooktop. Dishwasher by Bosch. Breville convection oven, never use high heat or broil mode.

 

[noodles123]

I wouldn't worry about the fridge as much as I would the oven, microwave and drip trays/range...if we are just talking about large appliances....

If you find a model that you like, write it down (model number, brand etc). Then Google the companies' consumer help-line and call them. They will have to take a message and call you back after they contact manufacturing with answers to your questions (it may take a few days). Sales/customer-service people know nothing about this stuff.
When you call or email, provide abbreviations and full names (spelling included) of the words in bold below:

Perfluorinated compounds (PFCs) are a family of fluorine-containing chemicals with unique properties to make materials stain- and stick-resistant.
There are many forms of PFCs, but the two most commonly found contaminants are:

PFOA or perfluorooctanoic acid, used to make Teflon™ products.
PFOS or perfluorooctane sulfonate, a breakdown product of chemicals formerly used to make Scotchgard® products.

Lastly, when you call, you will want to ask about PTFE or Polytetrafluoroethyline.

NOTE: No matter what kind of stove you get, you will want to run it at a high heat with your birds out of the house in order to allow it to burn off the toxic factory coatings that they use in new appliances to prevent corrosion. Provide plenty of time to air out the house before bringing your birds back in.

 

[EllenD]

Exactly...You can't ask the salespeople, they would have no idea...You have to call the manufacturers and ask them about each individual appliance, because there are very few brands that don't use any PFC's or Teflon in ALL of their products. So some of LG's Microwaves and Ovens might be okay, but some not. You have to ask about each different model from each different brand...

And again it's the ovens/ranges, microwaves, etc..And definitely any Convection Ovens, Toaster Ovens, etc. because a lot of the are not bird-safe at all...

 

[LauraC]

I have been on the phone and in chat rooms with both KitchenAid and Bosch and I am not making any headway. They said they cannot provide the component and material information. I even tried to escalate it to a manager and go the same answers.


Scott - thank you for providing the appliances you use.


Can others on here, give me the brands they use and for which appliance (i.e. Bosch oven/range, etc.)



I am really stressing on this but I don't want to not remodel my kitchen because of it.

 

[itzjbean]

I personally think you are worrying yourself unnecessarily...

They are just appliances... and are going to be as safe for you as they are to your bird. I have a two door old refrigerator, a plug in toaster, a microwave, a dishwasher, gas stove and have never had a single issue with cooking or anything kitchen related. You'll likely be hard pressed to find answers on all thee technical questions because it's just not really the companies concern about birds..

Any appliance you pick should be absolutely fine and I have never heard of a death of birds from kitchen appliances themselves -- NOT talking about self cleaning ovens or Teflon pans but I really don't think you need to worry this much. Just my opinion.

 

[Kiwibird]

While I don’t want to give any guarantees, I don’t believe any of the standard large kitchen appliances would contain Teflon (except MAYBE some microwaves, but I’d imagine they’d proudly declare that it was nonstick inside all over the packaging/product description). There is no need for a fridge or dishwasher to contain it and I’m fairly certain that ovens get too hot for Teflon to withstand, especially ones with “self clean” cycles that get up over 800 degrees f if I’m not mistaken (which BTW shouldn’t ever be used with birds as the burnt food itself can be toxic). In any case, I would hold off on new appliances if possible until summer when you can open all the doors and windows and move your birds to a far away room as all new appliances do put of some fumes just from being new materials.

The appliances you really have to watch out for tend to be small speciality appliances like toaster ovens, air fryers, waffle makers etc...

 

[noodles123]

I have been on the phone and in chat rooms with both KitchenAid and Bosch and I am not making any headway. They said they cannot provide the component and material information. I even tried to escalate it to a manager and go the same answers.


Scott - thank you for providing the appliances you use.


Can others on here, give me the brands they use and for which appliance (i.e. Bosch oven/range, etc.)



I am really stressing on this but I don't want to not remodel my kitchen because of it.

That's insane--I have never had them tell me NO. They have told me that they cannot give me that information and then I have said, "I understand that you do not know what your product is made of but is anyone who does? I need to make an inquiry with the manufacturers due to the fact that these chemicals have a direct impact on the health of a family member and I cannot purchase from your company without this information." OR something like that...I have never ever had anyone refuse to give me a call-back when asking about this stuff. Call during normal business hours and tell them that you need to know and that if they need to transfer you to another department, that is fine...And, if you need to wait a few days for them to find the information, you should explain that you are willing to do so (even if they don't volunteer it).

 

[noodles123]

I would worry about your toaster and any toaster oven (as well as the drip-trays on your actual oven) more than I would worry about the oven itself. Microwaves can and do contain it as well...
While there are ovens that contain these products, the toaster, toaster oven and drip trays are more likely dangerous. Do not ever use the self-clean function on an oven....for other reasons...
Honestly, when you say "Remodeling the kitchen" that makes me nervous about many things. I know that is annoying because you are already anxious, but any glues, paints, sanding etc...along with new appliances (even teflon free) will require serious air-out time.

 

[LauraC]

I would worry about your toaster and any toaster oven (as well as the drip-trays on your actual oven) more than I would worry about the oven itself. Microwaves can and do contain it as well...
While there are ovens that contain these products, the toaster, toaster oven and drip trays are more likely dangerous. Do not ever use the self-clean function on an oven....for other reasons...
Honestly, when you say "Remodeling the kitchen" that makes me nervous about many things. I know that is annoying because you are already anxious, but any glues, paints, sanding etc...along with new appliances (even teflon free) will require serious air-out time.

I am going to stay at a friends house with my bird while the work is being done. Only returning when there is no smell. As far as the appliance manufacturers, I did call during normal business hours and tried to elevate my concerns to no avail. Once the remodel is done, I plan on moving my bird to the back of my house when I am cooking. Actually, I always do that because his cage sits close to our kitchen normally (in the little tv area adjacent to the kitchen).

 

[LauraC]

While I don’t want to give any guarantees, I don’t believe any of the standard large kitchen appliances would contain Teflon (except MAYBE some microwaves, but I’d imagine they’d proudly declare that it was nonstick inside all over the packaging/product description). There is no need for a fridge or dishwasher to contain it and I’m fairly certain that ovens get too hot for Teflon to withstand, especially ones with “self clean” cycles that get up over 800 degrees f if I’m not mistaken (which BTW shouldn’t ever be used with birds as the burnt food itself can be toxic). In any case, I would hold off on new appliances if possible until summer when you can open all the doors and windows and move your birds to a far away room as all new appliances do put of some fumes just from being new materials.

The appliances you really have to watch out for tend to be small speciality appliances like toaster ovens, air fryers, waffle makers etc...

Unfortunately, I can't wait until summer to do this project. I do plan on staying with a friend during the heavy remodeling part. I will only return when there is no smell. Other family members are staying at the house during the remodel. I do not plan on using the self-cleaning function as I have heard that is bad. I also know that I have to run the oven at a high temperature when I first get it to burn off any chemicals used as part of the "new product packaging". The bird will not be around for that either.

 

[noodles123]

If you give me a description of the product, model number and serial number, I will try to call for you (if you want)...Not saying I will have success, but I haven't had any issues so far. I will have to wait until tomorrow though, as this would be outside of their normal hours...Just let me know...It might be worth a shot?

 

[LauraC]

If you give me a description of the product, model number and serial number, I will try to call for you (if you want)...Not saying I will have success, but I haven't had any issues so far. I will have to wait until tomorrow though, as this would be outside of their normal hours...Just let me know...It might be worth a shot?

I REALLY appreciate that. I am still deciding on brands and models but when I get home from work tonight I will try and post a few of them and see if you can accomplish what I couldn't. I will take all the help I can get as I need to decide by Thursday.

 

[noodles123]

I will give it my best! If tomorrow you post, PM me or something so that I see it as soon as I log-in. It's worth a shot at least!

 

[Kiwibird]

Definitely do the oven burn off without the bird in the house. Request low VOC paint be used. Depending on the flooring, you should be ok with most materials if you wait a day or 2 before bringing your bird around. When our kitchen was redone last year, the most toxic smelling thing was the vinyl tile glue and that only took about 24 hours of all windows open to dissipate the odor.

You probably want to consider getting an air purifier that is rated for VOCs to use as you break in your new appliances once your return home with your birds. Ideally 2, one for the kitchen area and the other in the birds area, but one in the kitchen I’d strongly recommend at minimum. You should also try to at least crack a few windows for a few weeks of using the oven and definitely use your kitchen vent if you have one! In doing more research, it seems that you may want to avoid gas or electric coil stove tops if possible. They apparently do sometimes use Teflon in burner liners. The regular glass top or newer induction stoves would likely be a safer choice.

 

[LauraC]

Definitely do the oven burn off without the bird in the house. Request low VOC paint be used. Depending on the flooring, you should be ok with most materials if you wait a day or 2 before bringing your bird around. When our kitchen was redone last year, the most toxic smelling thing was the vinyl tile glue and that only took about 24 hours of all windows open to dissipate the odor.

You probably want to consider getting an air purifier that is rated for VOCs to use as you break in your new appliances once your return home with your birds. Ideally 2, one for the kitchen area and the other in the birds area, but one in the kitchen I’d strongly recommend at minimum. You should also try to at least crack a few windows for a few weeks of using the oven and definitely use your kitchen vent if you have one! In doing more research, it seems that you may want to avoid gas or electric coil stove tops if possible. They apparently do sometimes use Teflon in burner liners. The regular glass top or newer induction stoves would likely be a safer choice.

I was thinking of the Rabbit Air Purifier. Here is what it says on their link
The price is kinda of high https://www.rabbitair.com/products/biogs2-air-purifier.

Letter to bird owners

Dear Bird Owner,
Thanks for your interest in the Rabbit Air purifier for bird. We are really excited to have the opportunity to make your home a healthier place for your bird and your family. Our air purifier is based on innovative technology that takes into consideration the delicate qualities of your bird’s respiratory system. With a unique BioGS HEPA filtration, our air purifier clears the air of allergens and contaminants, as well as bird dander, to ensure a healthy environment for bird and their owners with zero ozone emission. Rabbit Air purifiers are environmentally friendly and the best way to ensure a long, healthy life for your bird.
Browse our website to see all of our products. We understand each family has their own unique air quality issues, especially with birds, so please feel free to contact us anytime. Rabbit Air consultants are available 24/7 to listen to your concerns, offer solutions, and help you choose the best air purifier for your home. Call us at 888.866.8862. We look forward to serving you.
Sincerely,

The Rabbit Air Team

 

[noodles123]

Rabbit purifiers are known as being fairly good (from what I understand)--at the same time, they won't eliminate the risk of off-gassing appliances. I would get a solid purifier no matter what--- Rabbit is nicer than what I have (I wish I had one).

 

[Kiwibird]

I’ve heard good things about Rabbit air purifiers for bird homes, but am not sure if they are rated for VOCs.

Without getting into details, I destroyed our tub/shower trying to clean it after buying our place and it became necessary to refinish it. Our condo bathroom has no window and a recirculating fan, meaning no ventilation outside and the smell of that tub refinishing product was so horrific we had to wear a full on VOC filtering gas mask to use the bathroom after application (like you couldn’t breath the air or you’d pass out bad). We ran this air purifier on high in conjunction with our dehumidifier (which dries paint faster by physically drawing out the moisture) and within 48 or so hours the odor was almost unnoticeable. We, of course, replaced the filter right after as it had to of absorbed an insane amount of VOCs. We still use the surround air out near Kiwi’s cage and have in fact bought 2 more of their regular (non VoC rated units) for the rest of our space. Seriously though, I suggest these, they really do a good job with VOCs, though as many precautions to remove and/or put as much distance as possible between the birds and your new appliances while also keeping windows cracked while the appliances are in use as they break in is extremely important. No air purifier is 100% perfect at clearing VOCs, but if you can spend what a RabbitAir costs, you could buy a few of these and put them in the kitchen and near your birds:

https://www.surroundair.com/multi-tech-8400/

One more thing- do NOT buy an ozone generator, which are often marketed for clearing serious odors from the air. Yes, they clear odors but ozone is also toxic to parrots. Some air purifiers that are not dedicated ozone generators do produce small quantities of ozone (a lot with “ionizers” do). If you look at one that does produce any amount of ozone, make sure that feature can either be turned off (2 of our air purifiers have the feature, but we NEVER turn it on) or if there is no way to turn it off, then don’t buy it. Even small amounts of ozone can be irritating to a parrots breathing. The model I linked to should not produce ozone as per the manufacturer, but their 3000 series has the feature (we own 2) and do not filter VOCs. In fact I don’t think the company produces any other models besides the one linked above with VOC filtering capabilities.

 

[LauraC]

I will give it my best! If tomorrow you post, PM me or something so that I see it as soon as I log-in. It's worth a shot at least!

Thank you again for your offer to help. Below are KitchenAid and Bosch models. KitchenAid seems to have a lot of bad reviews but 2 salespeople at 2 different stores recommended it. Bosch has more positive reviews


KitchenAid: Color Stainless Steel
30" Slide in Gas Range - Model KKSGB900ESS
30" Slide in Gas Range - Model KSGG700ESS
24" Countertop Microwave - Model KMCS3022GSS



Bosch: Color Stainless Steel
30" Slide in Gas Range - Model HGI8054UC


GE: Color Stainless Steel
24" Countertop Microwave - Model PEM31SFSS

 

[bug_n_flock]

Huh. I never considered this. I have gotten new aplliances while living at home, and just had my birds in another room with doors and windows open while doing initial heating of the appliance. Now that we have the farm, we will need to get new appliances soon. Either the old owners took them or someone broke in and stole most of the appliances(also they stole the central air system and a bunch of window units among a whole long list of other damages). But the farm has a wood stove only and that is about it. We already bought a fridge and 3 freezers, a microwave, 2 toasters.. but we still need to get a range/oven, washer/dryer, dishwasher, actual good microwave and such. Glad I saw this thread. The farmhouse is much smaller than my mom's house- we will have to do things differently here for fume tragedy prevention.



Should I do similar research into clothes washer/dryers? I hadn't thought about it till now, but am now thinking: yes definitely a clothesdryer could be dangerous.


From phone at 1:30 am so forgive any typos or rambling.