Help, African Grey sick!

[endlessriver]

MY PARROT HAS A PANİCK ATTACK OR STH. LİKE İT.
Me and my family were in the kitchen, I heard a falling noise and a little scream, and when I went to living room, I found him on the floor of his cage. He was trying to breath, and trying to flap his wings, and he was screaming in fear. It keeps on like 1-2 minutes, then he stoped doing it. Then, he started to regain consciousness on the floor of his cage, then 30 minutes later he climed of the cage and sit on his stick. And when the incident happen the room was dark. He was probably sleeping.
I will give some relevant information about him in order to get more help.

By the way,guys I am sorry it was so urgent, I could not read the texts but I thought I should write to this place because of its title.

We have a grey parrot in my father's home .I do not take care of him all the time, generaly my father and his mum doing it becuase I do not usually live here due to College. He has some polyuria and diarrhea within 3 days. We started to give an antibiotic drug. The drug is adviced from one of our family member, his profession is vet, but he is expert on farm animals. However, the drug is given in 12 hours. We add the drug to his water, we add just 1 drop of the dug as a measurement. The one drop information is given by our vet family member. But I did forgot to change his water last night, so i give the antibiotic in 24 hours rather than 12 hours. Maybe it caused to his situation.
2 days ago, I gave him a piece of onion ( the piece was half of one finely chopped onion), I just gave him because, he eats a lot of kind things and I thought maybe it is a thing that he can eat with no danger. But when I did learn it is dangerous for parrots, I felt terrible, but it was so little in amount. However, I did give him a lot of water with a glass, the water is cold , maybe the situation is also because of it. I do not know but it was 2 days ago from the occasion day.
He speaks a lot, he loves to pet himself, generally his head. He is generally excited all the time.He usually eats black seeds, and he likes eating pistachio, because of it we give it like 10 times in a day. We genearlly clean only the bottom of his cage in 2 days. We change his water daily. There is no pet aound here for parrots so we can not g oto pet. He stopped talking. It happed like 1 hour ago. I do not know what to do, and I am terrified and panniced. Please give some information, I will send some photos to understand his situation, but he is resting right now because of it I will shoot them in morning. We do not know his age, or his sex. He did not tear his feather anytime. Looking forward to hear from you soon.

 

[ChristaNL]

Re: Parrots And Other Species/Precautions And Emergency Procedures

endlessriver:

first and foremost: stop panicking, and do not ever chuck meds in drinking water-- it is an imprecise way of getting your (or any) animal the right dosage.
No parrot will drink all the water, so he will never get the right amount in his system.

Blindly chucking antibiotics at diseases is dangerous.
If you do not know what is wrong- antibiotics are NOT a failsafe option!
They mess with the beneficial bacteria in the gut (the ones the parrot actually needs!)

African greys are usually not prone to nightfrights (unlike toos).
it could just be a one time thing ..who knows.
Just let the bird get back to his normal routine

At least you learned to watch out what you feed a bird (always research first, act later) and keep him away from any vet that does not know sh!t about parrots- they tend to make things worse instead of better.

Find a CAV (a real parrotdoctor, not someone who doctors cows & horses) - there are lists here on the forum-, get some bloodwork done to check if he does get enough nutritional food.
If "black seeds" are sunflower seeds you guys need to get him some real food (get pellets and/or a really, really good seed mix: one without peanuts and sunflower seeds anyway) because just sunflowerseed with the incidental pistacio will kill him.
Just like eating cookies and nothing else will make you a very unhealthy person.
Great work on the fresh water and keeping him clean

 

[endlessriver]

Re: Parrots And Other Species/Precautions And Emergency Procedures

First of all thank you for your answer ChristaNL,

I took some photos of him and uploaded it to my profile. You can see him from there.

You are right about giving the meds to his water and expecting from him to drink all the water, it is not a good way of treatment, we will find another way to give him the med.

I know we should not give medicine, because they are not a failsafe option but my parents trust the vet family member and they doing the things he said, I could not totally trust him, but he says reasonable things. He only have medicines about chicken, and he gave a medicine related to them and told it will be okey for him. I will give the relevant info about the med. I said my family imho, we should not give the antibiotic but they think it is okey for him, they say it worked last time. Maybe they are right, the thing happens to my parrot is not about the med. I have no idea, not an expert. :/

He again jumped of his branch or fall from there, i was not there again. When I find him he was on the floor, and his feets are locked, and trying to get up from floor of his cage. We took him with some towel and we tried to ease him with petting him. He did stay in this situation and like 10 minutes later we put him into his cage and 1 hour later, he was fine, and he is now acting like anything happened, he is moving a lot, climbing up and down, he want to be petted. I heard when birds has diarrhea, they act like nothing happened in order to not be quit from his flock. Maybe because of this he is still mobile. By the way the weather is too hot here , the temp. is like 34 degree Celsius, maybe the temperature affected him. The collapse or fall happens suddenly and then the effects continue like 5 minutes, then he rests on floor a bit, then everything is ok again. He acts like nothing happened after 1 hour later. Effects are;
-He seems to be terrified.
-He can not stand by his own.
-He make noises like dog crying with a quiet voice.

Last day I try to give him some boiled patato, but he refuses to eat it. Today we give try to give him some boiled white rise but he also refuse to eat it. He only drinked some water of boiled rice.

I live in Balıkesir which is a small city of Turkey, there are some pets around here but we do not trust them, I try to search a CAV like you said. But my parents are hopeless and refuse all the offer I made. Because, we used to have a budgerigar, an he died because of a med which given by a vet.
I offered also to take Bulut(grey parrot not the budgerigar) into a university vet clinic, but they said they will not treat him, we know the head of faculty, he is not a good man. :/( I really do not understand. )

There is a big zoo in İzmir (a city next to Balıkesir), I think maybe they have some experts. Because they have a lot of parrots.

If there is a turk in the forum,and knows about an expert please let me know. I could not find a forum at all in Turkish. :/
I hope he does not do that fall again.

the med-( we use only one drop and little water)
I know it is a bad measurement, I donot know another way to give him the med. I only can ty to force him to drink from glass, but he still refuses it, only takes a few sip.

Megatril ORAL SOLUTION ? Bavet ?laç A.?.

 

[ChristaNL]

Re: Parrots And Other Species/Precautions And Emergency Procedures

Autch, you are in a difficult situation.
It is a pitty your parents are stubborn people who want to trust a familymember above common sense -> well, you are not alone there, it happens to a lot of people (unfortunately).

Hmmm, more falling down and not being able to stand does not sound good.
I know what you mean and it is really not nice to watch.

The one thing you can do is make sure Bulut has the best food you can give him (until you find a really good vet / I think the zoo might be a good chance to get some advice and maybe find a vet that knows what to do) - does Balut has a cuttlefishbone or mineralblock? If not can you feed Bulut some boiled (cold) chickenmeat and lots of dark green vegetables? Maybe a part of a hard boiled egg (with the eggshell still on it)
Greys suffer from lack of calcium a lot of the time - esp if the food is not really, really good. (too many sunflowerseeds and seed only). That can make their muscles cramp.

(disclaimer) this is just one of dozens of problems that could cause the falling down and not being able to get up, but I am thinking of the ones you can help fix, and good food is a good start.

Have you read the topics about feeding vegetables?
(they like fruit better, but too much sweet stuf is not good, they need the healthy stuf everyday, and snacks only on special days -- just like healthy people )

The instructions on the packaging you posted say "only use for 3-5 days" so...dont worry about it - if Bulut ever really need meds people here can tell you how to give them to him safely (usually your CAV would show you, but you are not the only one who does not have a good CAVone near you.)

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, I am sorry your first post is because Bulut is sick.

My best advice is to seek a competent certified avian vet, and I know this may be difficult. Perhaps your best option is to plead for assistance at the Izmir zoo. Greys are endangered, hopefully they will show an interest. There is a global search engine for finding certified avian vets: https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803 Only one I could find in Turkey is in Istanbul. looks like a 6 or 7 hour drive. Might find others with local tools?

The basis for medicating parrots usually follows lab tests to properly identify the cause of symptoms. On occasion an experienced avian vet can formulate a diagnosis based on very strong clues, or at least prescribe drugs or other therapies to start. It appears Megatril is the equivalent of Enrofloxacin, a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Nobody at ParrotForums is a vet or vet tech, so it is impossible to evaluate whether Megatril is appropriate. Appears to be a local version of Enrofloxacin. Link discusses Enrofloxacin use in African Greys: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1663561 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1663561

The symptoms you describe show Bulut is in distress, hard to know the cause. Perhaps dietary, possibly an underlying illness. His diet seems less than ideal, I would respectfully suggest longer term you consider more fresh vegetables and fruits, and a good quality pellet. We can assist you with that later - first priority is to stabilize Bulut.

Please keep us updated, hope he improves quickly.

 

[Scott]

Some additional dietary tips! Parrots are stubborn and love their preferred foods. Like people, it takes time for a less than optimal diet to show in undesirable ways, such as chronic illnesses.

Many threads in the Parrot Food, Recipes, and Diet forum. A few favorites: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/49831-chop-day-recipe.html

While fresh vegetables and fruits should be the bulk of their diet, there are many good quality pellets that are far better than seeds. Even if Bulut never learns to love fresh foods, pellets have more nutrition for most birds than seeds. Greys also need adequate calcium.

 

[EllenD]

This sounds very serious, and it also seems to be getting progressively worse. Your parents are going to end-up with a bird that is so sick that it's too sick to save if they don't get him to an experienced Avian Vet immediately, as something is very wrong, and it's not anything that an Antibiotic is going to help. And that's the issue with what they are doing.

First of all, this friend of your family's that is the vet...Now, I don't mean to disrespect him, but even he knows that he did absolutely nothing to properly diagnose what is actually wrong with your bird. He did no blood work, he took no x-rays or other imaging tests, he didn't even take a Fecal or Crop culture/swab to test for infection. So this Vet friend of yours gave your bird an Antibiotic (and a weak, narrow-spectrum one at that) without having any idea whether your bird was really suffering from an infection at all...nor does he know that if it is an infection, whether or not it's being caused by Bacteria, or a Bacteria that this antibiotic will treat (and most-likely not, as this antibiotic that you put in his water is basically worthless, even if he does have a Bacterial Infection)...So the point is, how can any Vet provide treatment to your bird without doing any testing to actually diagnose what is wrong with him?

If this is being caused by some type of infection, either Bacterial or Fungal, then it's extremely advanced, he's had it for a long, long time, and it's gotten to the point that even giving him direct oral antibiotics (and good ones that actually work) probably won't do much good, he needs injections or IV meds...However, this could be anything from a neurological problem, to a heart or blood pressure problem, to a kidney or liver problem, etc. Just giving your Grey a weak, worthless antibiotic in his water dish every day is just allowing him to get worse and worse.

I know that we had someone on here with an Alexandrine in Turkey, and he drove 14 hours to that Avian Vet in Istanbul and this vet saved his parrot. He did what he had to do. And this Avian Specialist in Istanbul did blood work and took a crop culture, properly diagnosed the microbe that was causing this bird's infections (this bird actually had both a bacterial and a fungal infection), and the bird was given injections by the Vet in the office of both an Antibiotic and an Anti-Fungal medication, and then took home oral dosing of both meds, along with pain meds for the bird to feel more comfortable, and his bird lived (barely). So the bottom-line is that you have to do what you have to do to save your bird....

And I'm sorry, I know it's not your fault, but what you guys are doing (or not doing) right now is not only not-helping your bird, it's going to probably end very badly if you don't get him experienced help, meaning an Avian Vet that knows what they are doing and can do proper testing to diagnose the actual problem your bird has...If you ask that Vet friend of yours if he absolutely knows what is wrong with your bird without doing any tests at all, if he's being honest with you he'll say "no".

 

[endlessriver]

Thank you for your interests and advices @Scott,EllenD,ChristaNL

I especially thank you for Scott for moving this thread and mentioning about avian vet in the Turkey. I talked to my parents and said them, Bulut needs an avian vet, they said ok but in Turkey between 21-24/8/18 are holiday days (called Kurban Bayramı). And I looked to the site of the vet in Istanbul and they are closed on holiday days and Sundays. The nearest day we can take him to vet is Saturday. We must take care of him at least that day.
We understood of Bulut's situation, I guess. He has some attacks or cramps. Maybe ChristaNL was right he suffers from lack of calcium or some mineral, vitamin.
I know we have to take him to vet but it is not in case right now, and I could not go the avian vet before because I was not aware of him :/ and I do not know how to drive . I think I misunderstood my father, he wants to help, he refused to go to an ordinary vet, and know nothing about avian vets. I can understand them but as you guys said giving Bulut meds in a trial error method is wrong, and it makes me sad. My father thinks this is the only thing we can do, maybe yes for now but not before. I still think we could do better, but that does not show that my father does not care for Bulut. I putted my father a bad situation with this occasion in front of you guys because of that I wanted to make my opinion public.
We find a vet phone number and asked him what we should do. Due to Kurban Bayramı, vets are on holiday. The vet we talked was in out of town, because of that he could not examine Bulut. He said Bulut can suffer from epilepsy attacks based on our observation. He said Bulut needs recruitment of calcium and vitamin D3 and advised some medicines, he also advised a med for his continuing diarrhea. The way of giving the med to Bulut should be oral but he refuses to drink them, and we do not want to force him with pushing drip cap into his mouth, also I did read that with doing that the med can go to his lungs rather than his stomach. I know the adding the med into his water is stupid but at least I try to force him to drink the water with med. In order to give him the less med, I am trying to give him the things you said (Scott, ChristaNL), but again he does not bother to eat them at all. Even I put myself in front of him and eat some of cranberry beans and said ‘mmmmhh this is sweat’, he became excited when I said that but when I give him the bean he immediately threw it down. :/
Bulut had like 5-6 attacks up to now, I did not sleep last night, being there and trying to calm him when it is happening is important for me. He also locks his feets during attacks or cramps. And he tries to flap his wings during it.
Meds vet advised, and we started to give:
- Flagyl (for diarrhea)
- Devit-3 (vitamin D3)
- Calcimax-D3 (calcium and D3)
We also took him into the sun to balcony, but the weather is so hot, the duration was short.
I also mailed to some vets but nobody responded yet. (include the avian vet in İstanbul)
Turk Avian vet website
Istanbul Bird, Exotics & Pet Clinic

 

[EllenD]

Flagyl is a very strong Antibiotic prescription drug that should not be given to your bird without knowing whether or not he needs it! Here's the problem with what you are doing: If your bird has a Fungal Infection and you continue to give him a strong Antibiotic, the antibiotic is going to kill-off ALL the bacteria throughout his Gastrointestinal tract, including the normal, healthy bacteria that is supposed to be there, the bacteria that normally keeps fungal infections at-bay...And this will make the Fungal Infection much, much worse. Also, Flagyl is not at all a broad-spectrum antibiotic, it's a very specific antibiotic, and treat loose stools with it is not at all advised without them taking a sample of his stool and doing a culture on it to diagnose whether it's a bacterial infection, a fungal infection, a parasite, or something completely different causing the problem...

Your bird eats a diet of only Sunflower Seeds, is that correct? This is a horrible diet for a parrot, and if he's been eating this as his main diet for any length of time, he is most-definitely suffering from some serious liver issues, such as Fatty Liver Disease, among others...And these liver conditions may very likely be the cause of his constant and long-term loose stools, not an infection at all. He may also be suffering from some kidney issues from his diet as well, but it's mainly his liver I'm worried about, especially since you've said that he's had loose, runny stools for quite some time now. Antibiotics are not going to help him at all if this is the case. And the only way to find out is to have a routine blood-work done on him...A routine blood-work panel will tell you the entire picture of what is going on with him: It will tell you if he has ANY type of infection going on at all, it will tell you if he's anemic, it will tell you if his liver is diseased, as well as his kidneys. A plain film x-ray will also show whether or not his liver is enlarged...I'm going to go ahead and assume that a lot of his issue is his liver, and this is due to his diet. You need to get him off of the seeds and get him eating a diet of fresh vegetables, fresh fruits, and any healthy pulses other than fatty seeds that are available to you. I don't know if you can order online, but if you can, then you need to start ordering him a monthly supply of parrot pellets as his main, daily diet. Pellets will provide him all of the vitamins, minerals, protein, etc. that he needs to start being healthy, and they are low-fat so they will also help his liver start to heal. But if you keep feeding him seeds like he has been eating, he's going to get more and more ill, his loose stools are not going to stop, and he's going to eventually succumb to his liver disease.

I don't know what your plan is, I couldn't tell from what you wrote whether or not you are going to take him to the Avian Specialist in Istanbul on Saturday or not, but I really hope you do, as what you are doing is not going to help your bird at all. I would rather be direct with you and let you know the severity of the situation rather than not. I highly doubt this is Epilepsy or any other seizure disorder, because it's an acute issue, it's something that has just started, and usually seizure disorders like Epilepsy do not just start all of a sudden. He may be having seizures, as it does sound like he is having seizures or fits of some type, but they are not being caused by Epilepsy or any type of "seizure disorder", but rather are most-likely being caused by a combination of malnutrition and certain metabolic deficiencies due to his poor diet, and then also due to liver and/or kidney disease, also as a result of his poor diet. What i can tell you is that if your bird is having seizures due to an infection of some sort, either bacterial or fungal, doesn't matter, then if you don't get him to an Avian Vet very soon, he's going to die, as this would indicate that the infection has spread to his bloodstream and is now systemic, or "septic". Septic infection happens when they have a bacterial or fungal infection that starts out small and local to one area, like their Gastrointestinal Tract or their kidney, and because that local infection is not properly treated with the correct medication to treat that specific infection, the infection festers and eventually spreads to their bloodstream. That's the only way that an infection would cause seizures. So that's the severity of his situation. I'm not saying that's what is going on, I'm saying that IF it's an infection that has been causing his loose stools and that is now causing his falling/seizure like episodes (since you're treating this like it's an infection by giving him the Flagyl and other antibiotics), if this is the case, it means that the infection has been there for a long, long time and is now very progressed, and giving him the medication in his water is not going to do anything to help him. With advanced infections you must treat aggressively with strong medications by injection, or at the least directly into his mouth, which yes, you will have to force him to take, you don't have a choice. You can use an oral syringe and just give him the entire, proper dose of medication right into his beak, you have to...

My point here is that whatever is going on with your bird is not going to be cured by randomly giving him various antibiotics without any testing. He needs blood work, a fecal culture, and an x-ray to determine what is going on. The Avian Vet needs to know that his diet has consisted of nothing but sunflower seeds for a long time, and that he's had loose, runny stools for a long time. I don't think you or your family have connected the two issues, I think you think that the long-term diarrhea is one problem, probably due to some type of bacterial infection, and then that this new fainting/seizure activity is an entirely new problem that has nothing to do with the long-term diarrhea. The problem is that based on your bird's history, his diet, etc., they are probably both stemming from the same issue, which has yet to be diagnosed, and this obviously means that the issue is progressively getting worse, and is now very serious. And this is what happens when you just throw multiple medications at them and just hope that one works. If this is liver disease due to his poor, very high-fat diet, then none of the antibiotics have done a thing. That's the problem. And it's only going to continue to get worse and worse, and like I said, if he does have an infection of some sort that's been causing all of this, he's only going to last so long without getting a proper diagnosis and proper medication for that specific diagnosis, and it must be given to him directly as well. I hope you choose to take him to the Avian Vet in Istanbul as soon as you possibly can, if it's Saturday then it's Saturday, in the meantime you need to keep getting fluids in him because I'm sure he's dehydrated from the diarrhea, you need to keep him warm, and make sure that his perches are not up high so he doesn't hurt himself if he has more seizure/fainting episodes. I hope that this has a happy ending for you, but I don't think it's going to if you don't get him to an Avian vet very soon.

 

[Scott]

I am so glad you have convinced your parents of the urgent need to take Bulut to an avian vet! The practice you linked appears to be his best chance at receiving a diagnosis and treatment.

Perhaps Bulut is enduring some sort of seizure. Best to keep him low in the cage to avoid falling and becoming injured. One of the best-case scenarios is a chemical imbalance that can be restored with proper nutrition.

In the meanwhile, keep offering healthier foods, it can take a while to accept something new. Are you able to find and cook yams or sweet potatoes? More nutritious than white potatoes and a favorite food of many parrots. Any stores that sell pellets for birds instead of seed?

As Ellen stated, blood, fecal tests, and possibly an X-Ray are the basis for a diagnosis. The state of avian medicine is reasonably advanced, allowing a targeted approach rather than hoping various medicines are a cure. Time seems to be critical, I hope Bulut can be seen by the Istanbul Bird Clinic on Saturday.