Hello and Need Some Advice

[Doggybirdgirl]

Hello Everyone

Thank you for having me.

I am a Parrot Mommy to an adopted Amazon ( male) who is 30 years old and 2 Sun Conures that are 13 years old - sisters.

The two conures lay eggs from time to time but only a few and both have been healthy and fed nutritious food - except I have a hard time getting them to eat fresh vegetables.

This winter they have laid more eggs than usual. I have them together and I removed the eggs and made sure there was no nesting place. One started to look thinner and I got worried and took them to the vet. Vet said to leave eggs and they will sit on them and then get bored. My other alternative was to get them hormone shots. The vet cut the thinner one’s nail too short but cauterized it. She then could not grip or climb. The next morning she was very weak and could not walk.

We rushed her to the ER and they have avian specialists. They put her in an oxygen chamber and gave her IV. Her blood test was normal but x ray showed a slightly enlarged heart and gas in stomach. They are giving her cardiac meds ( I do not remember the name) and antibiotics. She came off oxygen today, is eating and drinking and peeing/pooping. No exposure to toxins.

She is having a hard time gripping with her right foot. They plan on releasing her tomorrow and I will get her a smaller enclosure with a rugged perch close to the bottom and a soft/ padded floor.

The ICU vet said she cannot hear a heart murmur and no arrhythmia. She said it could be she has a slightly weaker heart but the larger than normal egg laying combined with the trauma of the nail/wing clipping could be the cause.

I am blessed to be able to cover the vet costs but wondered if anyone else had this happen and how their bird did after.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

 

[LaManuka]

Hello Everyone

Thank you for having me.

I am a Parrot Mommy to an adopted Amazon ( male) who is 30 years old and 2 Sun Conures that are 13 years old - sisters.

The two conures lay eggs from time to time but only a few and both have been healthy and fed nutritious food - except I have a hard time getting them to eat fresh vegetables.

This winter they have laid more eggs than usual. I have them together and I removed the eggs and made sure there was no nesting place. One started to look thinner and I got worried and took them to the vet. Vet said to leave eggs and they will sit on them and then get bored. My other alternative was to get them hormone shots. The vet cut the thinner one’s nail too short but cauterized it. She then could not grip or climb. The next morning she was very weak and could not walk.

We rushed her to the ER and they have avian specialists. They put her in an oxygen chamber and gave her IV. Her blood test was normal but x ray showed a slightly enlarged heart and gas in stomach. They are giving her cardiac meds ( I do not remember the name) and antibiotics. She came off oxygen today, is eating and drinking and peeing/pooping. No exposure to toxins.

She is having a hard time gripping with her right foot. They plan on releasing her tomorrow and I will get her a smaller enclosure with a rugged perch close to the bottom and a soft/ padded floor.

The ICU vet said she cannot hear a heart murmur and no arrhythmia. She said it could be she has a slightly weaker heart but the larger than normal egg laying combined with the trauma of the nail/wing clipping could be the cause.

I am blessed to be able to cover the vet costs but wondered if anyone else had this happen and how their bird did after.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Welcome to the forums! Quite the bag of issues you've got going on there, I'm sorry you're going through all this! I've had a chronic egg-layer or two before, in general it's best to leave infertile eggs with the hen for the usual incubation time until they realize they're not going to hatch and yes, "get bored". This is usually MUCH easier to achieve if you invest in some dummy eggs, and you can get pretty good faux eggs from www.dummyeggs.com. Hens will often break real eggs if they sit on them for long, so the dummy eggs will enable her to carry out her maternal yearnings without fear of breakage and you having to clean up a nasty smelly mess. Hormonal implants are an option, they don't always work though and some birds do develop resistance to them and lay anyway. Hopefully your hen with the heart issues (and what is her name btw?) doesn't have it too badly, but there is a medication you can use if it does come to that - my cockatiel Fang has been on Pimobendan for his heart murmur for about 6 years or so now and he is doing very well on it. But yes, leave the eggs with her for a good three weeks or so or until she loses interest, get the dummy ones if you can because they're VERY handy to have around in the event of future layings. I hope your hen comes home tomorrow as planned and please keep us updated!

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

Thank you so much - her name is Sunshine and her name fits. Her sister is Moonlight.
I had planned to order the dummy eggs but for now Moonlight has her egg ( unbroken for now)I look forward to bringing Sunshine home tomorrow. My Amazon’s name is Ricky.

 

[LaManuka]

Thank you so much - her name is Sunshine and her name fits. Her sister is Moonlight.
I had planned to order the dummy eggs but for now Moonlight has her egg ( unbroken for now)I look forward to bringing Sunshine home tomorrow. My Amazon’s name is Ricky.

I think it would pay you to get Moonlight 3 or 4 dummy eggs, to replicate the average clutch size that a wild bird would lay. In the meantime you can also boil her real eggs for just a few minutes, cool them and give them back to her to sit on. Obviously an infertile egg won't hatch anyway, but boiling them just gives them a bit more strength when they're sat on and again means you don't have a nasty mess to clean up if she does happen to break the shell. And I hope Sunshine comes home too, it's awful when our babies are stuck at the clinic and away from home

 

[DonnaBudgie]

How many do they lay each time? If it's more than a couple, one of the good thing about dummy eggs is they make her think she has a full clutch so she isn't tempted to lay any more.

Make sure you give your girls a good calcium supplement. Egg laying can deplete their calcium stores and make their bones weak. it also makes then more prone to egg binding which is very painful and often fatal.

Personally, I'd be a bit upset at my vet if they trimmed my birds nails so short they bled. I bring them to a vet for nail trims so this doesn't happen. Maybe you need a new avian vet if one's available. Just my feelings about that.

Your vet bill from the hospital must have been huge, but it wouldn't stop me either. You're lucky to have access to good avian vets. A lot of people don't. I hope your girl is okay.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I have no expertise... only accolades. Wow. Bless you for your courage, care, and kindness. Thank you for sharing. Please stay with us.

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

Hi Everyone - she is home. The concern is both legs are not working now. She is feisty, flapping wings but still loves to cuddle. I hope we will not need to consider amputation. For now keeping her clean, supported and loved is the focus.

Her calcium blood level was normal so I do not understand what would cause this. I asked if she could have had a mini stroke. She seems content but really wanted to climb to see her sister.

My brave little Sunshine. Has anyone ever had this happen?

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

I have no expertise... only accolades. Wow. Bless you for your courage, care, and kindness. Thank you for sharing. Please stay with us.

Thank you for your kind words

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

How many do they lay each time? If it's more than a couple, one of the good thing about dummy eggs is they make her think she has a full clutch so she isn't tempted to lay any more.

Make sure you give your girls a good calcium supplement. Egg laying can deplete their calcium stores and make their bones weak. it also makes then more prone to egg binding which is very painful and often fatal.

Personally, I'd be a bit upset at my vet if they trimmed my birds nails so short they bled. I bring them to a vet for nail trims so this doesn't happen. Maybe you need a new avian vet if one's available. Just my feelings about that.

Your vet bill from the hospital must have been huge, but it wouldn't stop me either. You're lucky to have access to good avian vets. A lot of people don't. I hope your girl is okay.

Hi - I just posted but now believe it is neurological since both legs are involved

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

How many do they lay each time? If it's more than a couple, one of the good thing about dummy eggs is they make her think she has a full clutch so she isn't tempted to lay any more.

Make sure you give your girls a good calcium supplement. Egg laying can deplete their calcium stores and make their bones weak. it also makes then more prone to egg binding which is very painful and often fatal.

Personally, I'd be a bit upset at my vet if they trimmed my birds nails so short they bled. I bring them to a vet for nail trims so this doesn't happen. Maybe you need a new avian vet if one's available. Just my feelings about that.

Your vet bill from the hospital must have been huge, but it wouldn't stop me either. You're lucky to have access to good avian vets. A lot of people don't. I hope your girl is okay.

Thank you for your positive comments. I was concerned it was calcium but blood levels were normal.

 

[LaManuka]

Hi Everyone - she is home. The concern is both legs are not working now. She is feisty, flapping wings but still loves to cuddle. I hope we will not need to consider amputation. For now keeping her clean, supported and loved is the focus.

Her calcium blood level was normal so I do not understand what would cause this. I asked if she could have had a mini stroke. She seems content but really wanted to climb to see her sister.

My brave little Sunshine. Has anyone ever had this happen?

I'm glad your girl is home but I'm so sorry for her condition. Personally I would not necessarily consider amputation, I don't have any particular experience to offer you but if you can keep her clean and comfortable and while the limbs are intact I think there is still hope that at least some function could be restored some day. Sending prayers and wishing you and your sweet angel all the very best!

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I don't quite understand. Did the bad nail trim damage her legs? When did the leg weakness begin? When in relation to the last egg she laid?
I ask because I had an English Budgie hen that had an issue with her pelvic bones after she laid eggs. Right after she laid her second egg in a clutch her legs got so weak she couldn't walk. I brought her to my avian vet. I thought she might be egg bound because an egg stuck in transit through the pelvis presses on the nerves and blood vessels causing varying degrees of leg paralysis. The x-rays revealed that she was not egg bound but her pelvic bones which spread slightly during egg laying then bounce right back to normal were not bouncing back. This was causing partial paralyis of her legs. I put her in a padded bin and over the next couple weeks her legs recovered completely. It actually happened twice because she laid eggs again. She had been overbred before I adopted her. The egg laying depleted her bone calcium, causing her hip and leg problems.
A year later, she fell about three feet and fractured her femur, the big upper leg bone that attaches to her pelvis. She recovered, but lived in a padded cage for the rest of her life (another year) before she died of a stroke at about 7 years old.

I have no idea if Sunshine is having a similar problem but it sounds similar to me. Egg laying and leg paralysis rang a bell. If her problem is related to egg laying she may regain the use of her legs in a few weeks. I don't know if your avian vet did x-rays of her pelvis and if he did, did he look for this problem. My vet saw my girl's problem on her x-rays when he was checking to see if she was egg bound. If he did x-rays and her pelvis was visible maybe you can ask him to look closer at her pelvic bones and see if they are separated.

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

I will - thank you. You clearly loved your baby. So sorry you did not have her longer.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Thank you for your positive comments. I was concerned it was calcium but blood levels were normal.

Blood calcium levels are not a good indicator of whether the animal pr human has low calcium reserves in the bones. Blood has a pretty narrow range for calcium levels and it's unusual for blood calcium levels to go outside of this range because the muscles and nerves wouldn't function normally. Low or high calcium is usually a metabolic problem with the parathyroid and thyroid glands. Extremely low calcium can result in cardiac arrest. The body takes calcium from the bones and from intake to maintain normal blood levels and the thyroid and parathyroid regulate the blood levels. People and animals with osteoporosis generally have normal blood calcium levels.

I lost a female budgie to egg binding a few years ago so I made a point of learning as much as I could about it and how to prevent and treat it.

When a bird is laying eggs, calcium basically plays two roles- forming the shell and fueling the muscle contractions in the reproductive tract to expell the egg. Muscles can't contract properly if blood calcium drops too low while the egg is actually being laid. If the shell is too soft it can be difficult for the egg to move down and out the vent. The bigger problem is when the hen is in the process of laying and the blood calcium levels drop. The muscles won't contract forcefully enough for the egg to be expelled and it gets stuck. This egg binding is a major emergency. If you have a liquid calcium supplement for birds (like Calcivet) and place a few drops in the egg bound bird's mouth the blood calcium rapidly rises allowing the muscles to contract and expell the egg.

The budgie I had that had the pelvic bone problem and femor fracture had osteoporosis. She was never egg bound but her bones were very fragile.

Sorry for going on snd on but I wanted to share what Ive learned because I hope your Sunshine regains the use of her legs. I think she might recover if her paralysis is related to her pelvic bones.
I can't imagine why they would consider amputating a leg.

 

[Doggybirdgirl]

Thank you so much . It was just mentioned to me , but certainly scared me.

I was always scared she would be egg bound but later there were fewer eggs so I believed it would stop - the amount of eggs were more than before but vet thought they we’re not excessive at the time. She is trying to move the one leg, is on calcium, antibiotic, anti- inflammatory and cardiac med ( the radiologist thought her heart was slightly enlarged) She did poop earlier today but not recently. I am offering her food and she is eating and dipping her food in water.

I thought if blood calcium levels were normal it was not a calcium issue. Thank you for correcting me.

I love my girls but I think boys are easier. Never an issue for 13 years with the girls until now.

Happy New Year Everyone
Good wishes to all.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I hate to admit this but I wish all my birds (19 budgies) were boys. I wouldn't have so many if I only had boys because they breed like flying rabbits! Girls, even without sny boys around, have issues with egg laying and when it goes wrong and she gets egg bound it's a nightmare.

Just this morning my beloved favorite girl that I hand raised, Rocky, was caught having budgie sex with her faithful manservant cagemate. Beau! YIKES! don't want her to be a mama but she is so bonded to Beau it would break their little feathered hearts to separate them after two years together. I don't know what to do other than ot give them a box and remove any eggs she lays or give her dummy eggs. Why can't they just do it for fun instead of making baby budgies?