Get in

[helijohn]

So the situation is a bit desperate. Getting the bird, a hand reared GCC, in the cage is the problem.
I have read the forum comments and read lots on line. Food management, tempting with treats, allowing him to go in and out, staying near the cage after going in, toys in the cage (but he generally shows little interest in toys), step ups.

I know it is way more fun being out than in. I suppose a bird that won't come out is easier to deal with than one that won't go in and can easily fly off.
For a few times the various ideas worked but then he gets wise to what is coming. This then leads to a deteriorating situation and in comes the biting and I am sure some resentment which has led to biting more generally. At first he was very good at coming out, no trouble, onto the hand etc. Now there is some biting as soon as he comes out and I mean biting fetching blood. This has made me distrust him and I am very cautious. The last episode he flew at my chin and held on tenaciously.

It is all very well to say put him on the floor but he has to be gotten there He is very capable in flight. Like when he flew at my ear and was busy biting into it if I had grabbed him he would have gotten hurt.

I am reluctant with regard to wing clipping though I do see it as a possible option but TBH I don't think it should come to that.
I expect all of this is mismanagement on my part but I am coming to the end of my tether.

 

[Peaches_The_Sun_Conure]

With your caging problem, maybe your baby doesn't like being in their cage. The cage should be a safe and fun place for birds. Have you tried looking for interesting toys? I had the same problem with my sun, but then i got her some good quality foraging toys. Now i cant get her out!

 

[helijohn]

With your caging problem, maybe your baby doesn't like being in their cage. The cage should be a safe and fun place for birds. Have you tried looking for interesting toys? I had the same problem with my sun, but then i got her some good quality foraging toys. Now i cant get her out!

Thanks.
I have tried all sorts of toys. He seems to get bored with them though I do rotate them frequently. I suppose I have about 10 toys at hand and usually have 3 or 4 in there. Can you suggest one that might be universally brilliant for a conure?
He seems to like to eat and eat and eat. His food is his toy.
Gosh I wish he would be like yours and want to be in.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

Thanks.
I have tried all sorts of toys. He seems to get bored with them though I do rotate them frequently. I suppose I have about 10 toys at hand and usually have 3 or 4 in there. Can you suggest one that might be universally brilliant for a conure?
He seems to like to eat and eat and eat. His food is his toy.
Gosh I wish he would be like yours and want to be in.

Have you tried only having his food in his cage and not having a dish accessible to him outside of his cage? I am not saying to restrict him from eating, but leave his cage accessible to him at all times so that if he wants to eat, he HAS to go into his cage to eat. Then maybe he will have less negative association with his cage since he will associate it with tasty foods.

 

[helijohn]

Have you tried only having his food in his cage and not having a dish accessible to him outside of his cage?

Yes, as part of food management and I also left his food out of sight to give him when he had to go in. That worked a few times but the third or so time when I let him out unfed he bit deep.

 

[Jen5200]

That’s very frustrating, and it’s hard not to be a bit afraid of that beak once you’ve been tagged a few times! Been there, have the scars to show for it

May I ask how old your conure is, and how long he’s been with you? Do you have a routine where he goes into his cage at the same time each day? Is it a new behaviour that started recently? Do you think he might be picking up on any hesitation that you have to handle him, or using your fear to push boundaries?

I had a terrible time with my GCC Tango when he first came to live with me. He was 18 months old, flighted, bitey and difficult to put back in the cage. He and Baby came to me together - they both knew how to step up, but were pretty reluctant to do so - and Tango would randomly chomp me when he did step up (or when he was sitting on me, or when I offered him anything). I tried a lot of different things - and my experience was that it took a combination of tactics to get ourselves past this “phase”. We did work through it, and Tango rarely bites anymore, he also reliably goes to bed at bedtime - so it can be done!

I was trying to keep this short lol - will wait until I know a little more about your little guy to see if any of my experience might be helpful

 

[helijohn]

May I ask how old your conure is, and how long he’s been with you? Do you have a routine where he goes into his cage at the same time each day? Is it a new behaviour that started recently? Do you think he might be picking up on any hesitation that you have to handle him, or using your fear to push boundaries?

I did ask the age at the pet shop and we were told 6 months.
He has been with us for about 3 months.
We did have a routine whereby he goes in at about 6pm at night and about 10am in the morning after about 90 mins liberty. He has almost always been reluctant and TBH I cannot remember if he went in peaceably at the start though I recall him being on my finger and stepping up on to a cage perch without biting or real fuss.
Nowadays I must be picking up my hesitation and my partner says I show I have fear and maybe he is using my fear to push at boundaries. She has not had the bites I have had and she says he nips her but she is not worried about it. I keep saying that maybe he has taken to her but the bird still seems to want to me and naturally I want him to want me.
Problem is there that I don't want to hurt him.
Hope this helps.

 

[Jen5200]

You’ll build a good relationship with him - it sounds like he wants to be with you, but doesn’t understand bite pressure It sounds like he’s getting the recommended 12 hours of sleep, so that’s probably not a contributing factor. I’ll tell you some of the stuff that I tried, and you can see if any of it might work for you.

- I gave myself lots of time to get them into the cage (when I knew that I had a deadline to leave the house like to go to work in the morning) so that I wasn’t frustrated and chasing them. It seemed to become a game of “keep away” for them which just became more frustrating for me. I started at the beginning allowing myself 1/2 hour to get them into the cage. This allowed me to turn my back and ignore them for a minute or two when they took off, taking the fun out of it for them. They usually parked somewhere pretty quickly, and then I would ask again for the step up and move back toward the cage.
- I found a wide range of tempting things to offer as I was putting them into the cage (never used the same thing two days in a row - they got bored fast and it was no longer interesting). A few small bits of apple, a chopped up grape, a couple of raw sunflower seeds, pomegranate seeds, a nutriberry, a foraging toy with chopped up fruit in it, a bird kabob (shredding toy), etc. I made a big deal and happy noises, lots of praise everytime they went into the cage - and then hung out for a minute or two after putting them in to talk to them and check out what they were devouring. It felt a bit silly, but they seemed interested to see what I was happy about lol. I took note of everything that they loved that wasn’t part of their regular meals, or regular setup in their cage and used them as “bribes”.
- When transporting to the cage on my finger, I sometimes would put my other hand just above their back (not touching them) and talk to them in front of me. The talking seemed to distract from the desire to engage in a fun game of “chase the bird”. The hand gave me a warning when the wings came up and I could attempt to divert their attention back to me. I never closed my hands around them to “catch them”. This worked well with Tango, he seemed to find comfort in having my hands close by. Baby hated having a hand behind her, so I dropped that tactic with her.
- When they were out, I would randomly take them back to their cage to show them something fun like a new toy being installed. I would put them in next to the toy and show them how to play with it, then walk away - leaving the cage open. I was attempting to show them that being in the cage was fun, and didn’t always result in a closed door that leaves them behind.

A few things that I tried for biting: Tango was not allowed on my head or shoulders for many months - he was just too unpredictable with biting and left a lot of marks on me. If he flew there, I just calmly moved him places where he was easier for me to see (my knee, my finger, my forearm). If he wouldn’t get off, I had very good luck getting him to step off my head or shoulder directly onto a freestanding perch, his play stand, the back of a chair, etc..... My fingers got so raw that I resorted to using flesh-coloured vet wrap around them to cushion the blows, so I could remove him and set him off me for a minute and ignore him when he bit (stopped me from yelping). I used a small t-perch (from his weigh scale) to get him to step up when he was in a particularly “bitey” mood. Saved me many bites! Particularly useful when stepping up in the cage (or I would just let him come out on his own if he chose to be unpleasant). Every bite resulted in a brief “ignore” or “time out” from me. It’s harder when they are flighted.....but possible.

Just want you to know that Tango and I developed a good relationship, he rarely bites - and he almost always goes into the cage without issue now. Rooting for you, and I hope there’s something useful in this for you! Patience, no fear, creative thinking and consistency....you’ll get it resolved

 

[helijohn]

You’ll build a good relationship with him - it sounds like he wants to be with you, but doesn’t understand bite pressure It sounds like he’s getting the recommended 12 hours of sleep, so that’s probably not a contributing factor.
He does get 12 hours and we did notice that if he has a diturbed night he seem ratty the next day. Unfortunately my partner is often up in the night through pain. I agree that he is not (or was not) too aware of bite pressure though lately I think he knows what he is up to.

This allowed me to turn my back and ignore them for a minute or two when they took off, taking the fun out of it for them. They usually parked somewhere pretty quickly, and then I would ask again for the step up and move back toward the cage.

- I found a wide range of tempting things to offer as I was putting them into the cage A few small bits of apple, a chopped up grape, a couple of raw sunflower seeds, pomegranate seeds, a nutriberry, a foraging toy with chopped up fruit in it, a bird kabob (shredding toy), etc. I made a big deal and happy noises, lots of praise everytime they went into the cage - and then hung out for a minute or two after putting them in to talk to them and check out what they were devouring. He has gotten wise to temptations though he is an avid eater. One thing he might do from time to time is get a drink but he has to be fairly thirsty. When he is eventually in the cage he always goes immediately for a drink........thirsty work being out!!! A treat I tried with my pigeon in training though has gone down well with him and it is safflower seed. It is fairly hard to obtain. When I try pet shops etc. they seem to insist I mean sunflower.....Grrrrrr. I have trained him to fly to hand and such using it but again he is wise to it at "in" time.
As for toys it is not effective but he always gets curious when I am doing something with my hands such as preparing a toy or even working on other jobs. It is a nuisance at times as he likes to mess with my partner's PC mouse and such. So when I have been putting something new in the cage he has to be nosey and be there. It is something I might pursue thanks.

- When transporting to the cage on my finger, I sometimes would put my other hand just above their back (not touching them) and talk to them in front of me. The talking seemed to distract from the desire to engage in a fun game of “chase the bird”. The hand gave me a warning when the wings came up and I could attempt to divert their attention back to me. I never closed my hands around them to “catch them”. This worked well with Tango, he seemed to find comfort in having my hands close by. Baby hated having a hand behind her, so I dropped that tactic with her.
This approach has had varied results. Generally it is unsuccessful. My partner seems able to do this better than I but he tends lately again to know what it is leading up to and so lightly holding him as restraint is the only way that works. With several other birds I could grip the feet and they were happy with that. I tried this with this one at first gently holding but he struggles to get off and/or bites. He seems to not like any restraints (even before these get in troubles).

- I was attempting to show them that being in the cage was fun, and didn’t always result in a closed door that leaves them behind.

I tried this and for a few days it worked in that he came and went. I had made a platform for him to use which helped and I would get him to step up to it with a safflower seed. He would only go on it for a reward though. Normally I reward with a safflower and say good boy so that eventually I can drop the treat. I never closed the door when doing this as I wanted him to feel he was not being shut in.

A few things that I tried for biting: Tango was not allowed on my head or shoulders for many months - he was just too unpredictable with biting and left a lot of marks on me.
I may have made a rod for my own back over this. I always had my pigeon come with me on my shoulder (he was unable to fly at all thanks to injuries caused by a hawk). Normally I don't like having a parrot there but Daisy (the pigeon) had no bite to speak of and anyway never bit but groomed me. Letting this one on my shoulder was against my principles but being hand reared I let down my guard. I admit I trained baby (the name we use for GCC) to come to my shoulder. If I change rooms he (used to) fly to my shoulder or mostly head if I didn't take him on hand. In fact he flies around the house looking for me if I go off. Facing away therefore is no simple task and getting him off is now a problem. The T stick is an idea I'll try thanks. Trouble is (until recently) the hand is where he goes and then lately it is bite time

My fingers got so raw that I resorted to using flesh-coloured vet wrap around them to cushion the blows, so I could remove him and set him off me for a minute and ignore him when he bit (stopped me from yelping). I used a small t-perch (from his weigh scale) to get him to step up when he was in a particularly “bitey” mood. Saved me many bites! Particularly useful when stepping up in the cage (or I would just let him come out on his own if he chose to be unpleasant). Every bite resulted in a brief “ignore” or “time out” from me. It’s harder when they are flighted.....but possible.
I need to see about getting the vet wrap but have no idea where to get it or what to get. If i could show him that his bites are not affecting me we would do so much better I feel. His bites are not only fingers; he can gather my skin on my hand and crush it, my ears are favourite but the chin was the last straw for me. I see you mention flighted. I am convinced that wing clipping is the next big approach in this situation. In all my birds I have never wanted to do that..........I simply don't like doing it though I have just a few times. My last conure that I had back in the 1990s was a dream and no trouble apart from being very vocal if I was not with him.

Thanks for the advice.
I have always had untame birds in the past bar one starting with a yellow head Amazon and always used stick training and food which worked exceptionally well. My African Grey was even so wild that at first he screamed when anyone came near the cage let alone in it but eventually he was the most wonderful companion and I confess I cried (and still do at the thought) when he had to be put down. He never bit me once and none of my untame birds ever bit me........only the hand reared ones have and I wish I had stick trained this one (or gotten a parent reared one) but I never expected Baby to need it. And yes he does seem to want to be with me.

 

[Jen5200]

About vet wrap - I used vet wrap on my fingers because it’s inexpensive padding that goes on and comes off easily and can be reused (and I could still use my hands relatively normally). I had some in the house because I use it on other animals. If you search vet wrap in amazon, it comes up as Vet tape, self-adhesive wrap/bandage, etc and I know I’ve purchased it at the farm supply store as well. It just provided a bit of relief for me while he figured out what I was trying to tell him

 

[helijohn]

About vet wrap - I used vet wrap on my fingers because it’s inexpensive padding that goes on and comes off easily and can be reused (and I could still use my hands relatively normally). I had some in the house because I use it on other animals. If you search vet wrap in amazon, it comes up as Vet tape, self-adhesive wrap/bandage, etc and I know I’ve purchased it at the farm supply store as well. It just provided a bit of relief for me while he figured out what I was trying to tell him

Did you use clear as I can only find coloured ones?

 

[helijohn]

You’ll build a good relationship with him - it sounds like he wants to be with you, but doesn’t understand bite pressure My fingers got so raw that I resorted to using flesh-coloured vet wrap around them to cushion the blows,
Just want you to know that Tango and I developed a good relationship, he rarely bites - and he almost always goes into the cage without issue now. Rooting for you, and I hope there’s something useful in this for you! Patience, no fear, creative thinking and consistency....you’ll get it resolved

regarding the bandage approach, I dug out some almost skin tight driving gloves and started wearing them round the house when near the bird. This way he would get used to them being part of me. After several days we let him out and though it is early days they seem to be doing the trick in two ways. First I am less distrusting and more confident - as he cannot so easily draw blood I can tell which is bite and which is nip; this has meant I am able to employ other tactics like putting him on the floor if he starts to bite, tell him no biting and work on step up diversions.

This has meant I have been able to train him to go to his platform on the cage entrance and let him come and go as he pleases so he feels he is not being captured. I did make a special T perch on a spare small dumbell weight as a base that is long stemmed enough to enable me to manipulate it; amazingly he flew almost immediately to this making me think he was used to such a thing at the breeders maybe for weighing. I left it near his cage to allow him to see it about a day before he came out.
Net result is that for a few days we have had him head into his cage just by moving him near to his landing platform.
Interestingly he seems to be paying me more attention now (the other half says he is favouring me now lol) so I have started using a whistle to call him to me and he does - albeit for a reward initially and I use the call so he knows I am around.

It does seem, as you suggested, that he does want to be with me which is satisfying. I am keeping shoulders and head out of the picture at the moment by not encouraging it.
I have always had patience and, apart from a really vicious sulphur crested cockatoo and a cunning eclectus I once had, I have not known my distrust like I have with this one.

Time will either confirm or prove me wrong.

 

[Jen5200]

About vet wrap - I used vet wrap on my fingers because it’s inexpensive padding that goes on and comes off easily and can be reused (and I could still use my hands relatively normally). I had some in the house because I use it on other animals. If you search vet wrap in amazon, it comes up as Vet tape, self-adhesive wrap/bandage, etc and I know I’ve purchased it at the farm supply store as well. It just provided a bit of relief for me while he figured out what I was trying to tell him

Did you use clear as I can only find coloured ones?

I used flesh coloured vet wrap - pretty neutral color so that they didn’t seem to notice it.

 

[Jen5200]

You’ll build a good relationship with him - it sounds like he wants to be with you, but doesn’t understand bite pressure My fingers got so raw that I resorted to using flesh-coloured vet wrap around them to cushion the blows,
Just want you to know that Tango and I developed a good relationship, he rarely bites - and he almost always goes into the cage without issue now. Rooting for you, and I hope there’s something useful in this for you! Patience, no fear, creative thinking and consistency....you’ll get it resolved

regarding the bandage approach, I dug out some almost skin tight driving gloves and started wearing them round the house when near the bird. This way he would get used to them being part of me. After several days we let him out and though it is early days they seem to be doing the trick in two ways. First I am less distrusting and more confident - as he cannot so easily draw blood I can tell which is bite and which is nip; this has meant I am able to employ other tactics like putting him on the floor if he starts to bite, tell him no biting and work on step up diversions.

This has meant I have been able to train him to go to his platform on the cage entrance and let him come and go as he pleases so he feels he is not being captured. I did make a special T perch on a spare small dumbell weight as a base that is long stemmed enough to enable me to manipulate it; amazingly he flew almost immediately to this making me think he was used to such a thing at the breeders maybe for weighing. I left it near his cage to allow him to see it about a day before he came out.
Net result is that for a few days we have had him head into his cage just by moving him near to his landing platform.
Interestingly he seems to be paying me more attention now (the other half says he is favouring me now lol) so I have started using a whistle to call him to me and he does - albeit for a reward initially and I use the call so he knows I am around.

It does seem, as you suggested, that he does want to be with me which is satisfying. I am keeping shoulders and head out of the picture at the moment by not encouraging it.
I have always had patience and, apart from a really vicious sulphur crested cockatoo and a cunning eclectus I once had, I have not known my distrust like I have with this one.

Time will either confirm or prove me wrong.

It sounds like great progress in a short time and it also sounds like you and he are both enjoying interactions more! I think you’ll be able to build trust on both sides now that you’re able to interact without bleeding . It’s funny that he seemed to recognize a perch as a “mode of transport”, I think you’re right and it was familiar from his breeder (I use the one from my bird scale during hormone season).

So glad to hear that you’re making some headway - keep us updated?

 

[helijohn]

So glad to hear that you’re making some headway - keep us updated?

This is why I am distrusting. I thought it was too good to be true. Yesterday he flew at my face and dug his beak into my cheek an inch below my eye. It bled profusely.

 

[Jen5200]

Ow, that must have hurt like the dickens! I hope you’ll keep working at it though, building trust (on both sides) will take time. Tango and I had many biting incidents, but they became less and less frequent as he figured out what I wanted. He caught me off guard once and put a nice puncture in my lip. I must confess that I winced every time he looked at my face for a few days after that. I can only say that I’m glad I didn’t give up, he’s a lovely little guy once we figured out how to convey boundaries.