:gcc: Help my figure out why my GCC threw up?

[Green_Cheek_Conure]

I saved a sample and I am taking him to the avian vet today to handle whatever the acute problem is. Assuming the vet saves my GCC's life, I'd like to figure out what happened, and what I can change on an everyday basis to keep something like this from happening again.

The story:

Yesterday afternoon, my GCC started vomiting suddenly. GCC was standing on top of cage. Immediately prior, he had been walking around exploring the room for about an hour and a half.

GCC continued vomiting intermittently for about five minutes. Vomit material was a red-orange slurry. Each vomiting episode began with material collecting in his beak with a foamy appearance. He subsequently shook his head side to side to fling it off, while walking rapidly around the top of his cage.

Between vomiting, GCC drooped his wings and fluffed his feathers. He also rubbed his beak against cage bars a lot. GCC did NOT appear unstable or clumsy.

He has not vomited in the 24 hours since.

Vital Stats:
Species: Green Cheek Conure (GCC)
Age:14 years
Sex: Never tested, presumed male due to dark grey foot coloring + behavior
Feed: 75% Pellets + 20%dried fruit mix + 5% seeds + occasional bits of human food.
​

I strongly suspect that the red color of the vomit material is due to dye from his food, not blood. My GCC's pellets contain dye that often colors his droppings.

There have been no major changes in his diet or habitat in the last few months. No other pets.

I have been the primary caretaker for GCC for about a year. GCC is a poor flier, has only flown regularly for about three months. GCC has some sort of underlying health issue that results in downy grey chest feathers - no colored ones. This has been ongoing for ten years.

Last avian vet visit was in June 2020. GCC vomiting clear liquid due to distress related to some combination of a long car ride and smoke from a wildfire. Vet said he would likely recover without help, gave antibiotics to mix with water bowl as a precaution. Vet could not diagnose cause of grey feathers, but indicated that GCC was essentially in good health.

Some guesses at causes:

I gave him a 1/4 inch square piece of my lunch, a savory spinach-leek bread pudding. Are trace amounts of leek were enough to upset his stomach? The piece I gave him did not have any visible pieces of filling, and he has eaten similar sized pieces of egg bread before.

He chewed a hole in the terrycloth towel that he sleeps under. He has used a similar terrycloth towel as a sleep-shelter for 14 years without prior incident.

Room temperature has been a little cold for him the last couple days. May have dropped to low 60's F. He has handled greater temperature extremes without complaint before.

Yesterday was daylight savings - did I screw up his uncovering times? Per the clock, I uncovered him an hour later than the previous morning.

Cooking with teflon? I have a housemate who tends to create big smoke clouds when she cooks. We still have some teflon cookware. GCC's cage is far from the kitchen and separated by a door.

 

[noodles123]

leeks are toxic but it just depends.


THIS IS SO VERY VERY VERY HUGE: Teflon/PTFE/PFOA.PFCs= according to my avian vet, the number one killer of captive parrots (so many members have lost birds to this-- many of whom had used the same pan for a year or longer before a diagnosis of toxicosis..and many more whom never even reported their bird's death because they just didn't know enough to consider it). You should not use them in the same house ever...It has killed through closed doors and on different floors...it can off-gas as low as 350-375 but the age of the pan, acidity of the food, cook-time all can contribute,so you can't assume that if your bird has survived it once that it will again. You absolutely must get rid of this stuff. ANY SMOKE can kill your bird (even from cooking) BUT even teflon that doesn't smoke at all (aka unburned) can kill a bird despite multiple walls and doors. You must get rid of your teflon and make sure that in the future, you only do stainless, aluminum, or some ceramic. Call the company to verify and know that this crap is covering things like hair straighteners, griddles, space heaters, heat lamps, irons etc...When you call, you must spell out the full chemical name of every abbreviation, and provide the acronyms and brands as well...It is a process and 99.999% of the time, you will talk to 2 or 3 people over 3 days or so before getting an answer (unless it is a "trade secret" and then you should also pass on that product).



https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen <-- read for detail-- it's an excellent source and it links references to all of its claims (many of which I have cross-verified)-- Read the first part, then after the references , there is even more (some of which is very sad)



http://cholla.mmto.org/parrots/ptfe.html

If up until now you hadn't been concerned about smoke or teflon, I am also very concerned about what kind of spray cleaners and air fresheners, candles, oil diffusers etc you may be using.Those aren't as bad as teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs, but can still easily be deadly.


Did you share spit? Your spit can be deadly due to gram negative bacteria in human saliva which is not present naturally in birds. If you let your bird eat off of a utensil that has been in your mouth, bite off of what you have bitten, or share food that you have touches with a contaminated utensil (e.g., double dipped).


Temperatures that low would be too much for my bird unless acclimated over a period of time.


Cotton fibers can cause blockages, so hard to tell....In general though, they realy should not have sleep shelters or shadowy spaces because it can alter hormones significantly...although if you have not had any issues thus far, as long as he has been with your for 14 years and never had an issue, it probably is fine to keep it as long as it isn't a snuggle hut...but just know that hormones, sleep, immune health, light cycles etc are all interwoven. A hormonal bird may be under more stress than a non-hormonal bird so you can see new issues that overlap (although this does not sound hormonal----I just added this as an afterthought).

 

[Laurasea]

Noodles cover it.

Leaks are toxic they cause gastric bleeding, and rupture if red blood cells. None should ever be given .

Being in a different room or floor if house is nit enough to save burds from the toxic fumes from those chemicals above.

14 is elderly for a GCC, tho they can live longer, I lost mine st 17.

Grey feathers are often over preening.

A digital kitchen gram scale is your freind fir tracking your birds weight. More than 3% loss is a sick bird, more than 5% is a very sick bird. % lost is calculated by taking grams lost ÷ by normal weight x 100 = % lost

Warmth of 80-85 f helps sick burds a lot. Being chilled can allow something that was brewing to take over.

You can safely feed greek yogurt with Acidophilus live culture abd no artificial sweetners. When my burds are sick I feed a thumbnail size amount every day, otherwise once a week or when you think of it. Might help balance gi. Really helps with yeast overgrowth. Abd has taken my bird from diarrhea to normal stool. It will not hurt your bird, there us debate about if it helps. I strongly say it does based in my experience.

Feeding cooked sweet potatoes, and cooked pumpkin because of extra fiber can help push partisl blockages thru . Plus good source if vitamin A

Sick burds burn 2x their normal calories, sometimes they can't eat enough to keep up with that. You can try feeding supplemental baby burd formula, i like Exact brand and ut also has 2 bird probiotic in it. Use 1 ml syringe, font force but coax . Having it warm and thick like thick yogurt makes them like it better. 1-3ml is probably enough 1-3 times a day. Adult birds crops do not stretch like a baby burd. Your burd might take from your fingers or a spoon or eat off a plate ( a little thicker if you try it that way) even 1 or 2 ml total in a day will support him. I found offer just a couple drops at a time and they liked it. You don't have to do this. But I found it really supported my sick burds.

Dried fruits I give as treat rarely only. Some fish berries like raspberry, blackberry, cranberry are better. Cherry snd plum no out are also good. To much sugary fruits csn lead to bacteria imbalance or yeast overgrowth. I feed 2 times a week. Bell pepper and red chili peppers are usually well liked. If yiur burd is loosing weight offer millet spray abd few extra seeds.

Of course seeing tge veterinarian right away us most important. The above is supportive.

I had some very sick burds. Vet care, support heat ( I use radiant heat panel from Amazon called sweeter heater, us powerful have to set back from cage at least 6 inches) supportive foods, and yogurt really helped me save tgem. Weighing them everyday while sick help me and my vet pick up on if meds needed to increased or switched. Abd if I needed to try harder to get more food into them. Quick vet care is most is important , but yiur care is very important too.

https://www.littlecrittersvet.com/sick-birds.pml

 

[Scott]

Welcome, thanks for a thorough case history and narrative of your bird's recent consumption and condition. The posts above cover virtually all the bases! If leek toxicity was primary cause, the absence of distress last 24 hours a good sign!

Dried fruit typically has added sugar and preservatives. Parrots thrive best on a balanced diet that includes abundant fresh vegetables with much lower proportions of fruit.

By now you have likely visited the vet, hope the outcome is positive. Please keep us informed!!

 

[Green_Cheek_Conure]

In response to Noodles:
Thanks for the detailed reply! I'd really appreciate hearing more about the hormonal issues with sleep shelters. Based on your comments, I will apply some more effort in de-tefloning my home. I'd also appreciate any advice you have about stabilizing temperatures around a birdcage when the temperature in the rest of the house is not in a bird-friendly range. For the reasons you mentioned, I'm wary of using a space heater. Everyone has experienced days when our home heat/AC doesn't perform as well as we'd like.

I think I mentioned that while I have known my GCC for many years and have access to detailed history of his care from the time he hatched, I have only been his actual caregiver for about a year. He clearly has some sort of systemic issue that resulted in his grey chest feathers and who knows what other invisible issues. Other than the feather discoloration, the problem is subtle - his weight is good, he gets a clean bill of health at regular checkups with the avian vet.

As far as I know, my GCC very consistently used a sleep shelter his entire life - specifically, a cloth draped over a small section of the top bars of his cage to create a six-inch wide, two-sided enclosure around a soft toy and one of his perches. It is not a "snuggle-hut." In the time that I've owned him, I've noticed that he has stopped consistently choosing to sleep in the shelter, but I was not aware of any reason to remove it. His cage decor was informed by a locally well-respected bird breeder/bird store where he hatched. But they also spent years selling inappropriately seed-rich food mixes for him...

As for sharing saliva - not intentionally; certainly, we never share utensils. But it is completely possible that the "leek" incident was actually a saliva incident. He didn't get any physical leek or saliva that I could see, but his piece could have touched either. How much saliva/leek contact does it take to turn 1/2cc of bread toxic? My GCC likes to demand human food by cheeping loudly when he realizes that a human is eating nearby. His typical human food diet in my care adds up to a bit of plain toast about once a week. I'm probably going to reduce that a lot.

I mentioned teflon because I was already aware of the issue. I don't personally use teflon cookware. I'm limited in my ability to demand that another adult learns to cook without nonstick crutches. As a general rule, I am aware of birds sensitivity to fumes. Even before I had a bird I'd heard of a canary in a coal mine! I own bird-safe cleaning chemicals, keep hand sanitizer readily available, etc.

 

[noodles123]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I mentioned teflon because I am aware of the issue.

I have stocked the kitchen with a variety of steel and cast iron pots and pans. But as a practical matter, I'm limited in my ability to demand that another adult learns to cook without nonstick crutches. I don't personally use teflon cookware - in part because the teflon cookware around here is in no condition for humans to eat off it either.

As a general rule, I am aware of birds sensitivity to fumes. Even before I had a bird I'd heard of a canary in a coal mine! I own bird-safe cleaning chemicals, keep hand sanitizer readily available interacting, etc.

If this is your baby, you have to do what you can do to protect him/her. I would throw out the teflon- point blank (or ask them to take it to their parent's etc). You can either buy cheap pans that are non-teflon, teach your roommates to cook (because it's not that hard at all to cook without teflon) and/or look for new roommates. You can get bird-safe cookware at a thrift store for next to nothing and if your mates can't adapt, I'd be concerned about their general abilities/sharing responsibility with such people.


You can absolutely demand it-- hurt feelings are better than a dead bird. Plus, maybe they learn to cook. win-win. Not to mention, Teflon chemicals are found in human breast-milk and passed to babies which is sketchy, but not nearly as dangerous as the respiratory side of things for birds.


Hand sanitizer itself contains a lot of fumes-- I do use it RELIGIOUSLY at work, but not around the bird...although it is good you are trying to be sanitary, hand sanitizer produces fumes as well...granted, they are often more irritating than deadly in comparison to teflon and ptfe/pfcs/pfoa.

If I use hand sanitizer n the car with Noodles, windows open until the scent is gone , but I really try to avoid that (just have had to do it a few times with covid).


I feel like you are misunderstanding the SERIOUS risk posed by teflon/ptfe/pfoa/prfe. Would you leave a puppy in the middle of an LA interstate on a Friday night? I don't many people would...but allowing these pots/pans to be used is the same house is worse, if not more dangerous. You have to protect the bird you omitted to when you made the choice to adopt and you KNOW these things are super deadly.... I'm not blaming you, but you have the facts and you have the resources to do this without a ton of added expenses if you are thrifty.


I just want to re-empahize that it is not worth the risk if you value your parrot...You would feel terrible if anything happened, and for what? Appeasing roommates who would likely comply anyway if they knew how serious it was.

 

[Green_Cheek_Conure]

Noodles cover it.

Leaks are toxic they cause gastric bleeding, and rupture if red blood cells. None should ever be given .

Being in a different room or floor if house is nit enough to save burds from the toxic fumes from those chemicals above.

14 is elderly for a GCC, tho they can live longer, I lost mine st 17.

Grey feathers are often over preening.

A digital kitchen gram scale is your freind fir tracking your birds weight. More than 3% loss is a sick bird, more than 5% is a very sick bird. % lost is calculated by taking grams lost ÷ by normal weight x 100 = % lost

Warmth of 80-85 f helps sick burds a lot. Being chilled can allow something that was brewing to take over.

You can safely feed greek yogurt with Acidophilus live culture abd no artificial sweetners. When my burds are sick I feed a thumbnail size amount every day, otherwise once a week or when you think of it. Might help balance gi. Really helps with yeast overgrowth. Abd has taken my bird from diarrhea to normal stool. It will not hurt your bird, there us debate about if it helps. I strongly say it does based in my experience.

Feeding cooked sweet potatoes, and cooked pumpkin because of extra fiber can help push partisl blockages thru . Plus good source if vitamin A

Sick burds burn 2x their normal calories, sometimes they can't eat enough to keep up with that. You can try feeding supplemental baby burd formula, i like Exact brand and ut also has 2 bird probiotic in it. Use 1 ml syringe, font force but coax . Having it warm and thick like thick yogurt makes them like it better. 1-3ml is probably enough 1-3 times a day. Adult birds crops do not stretch like a baby burd. Your burd might take from your fingers or a spoon or eat off a plate ( a little thicker if you try it that way) even 1 or 2 ml total in a day will support him. I found offer just a couple drops at a time and they liked it. You don't have to do this. But I found it really supported my sick burds.

Dried fruits I give as treat rarely only. Some fish berries like raspberry, blackberry, cranberry are better. Cherry snd plum no out are also good. To much sugary fruits csn lead to bacteria imbalance or yeast overgrowth. I feed 2 times a week. Bell pepper and red chili peppers are usually well liked. If yiur burd is loosing weight offer millet spray abd few extra seeds.

Of course seeing tge veterinarian right away us most important. The above is supportive.

I had some very sick burds. Vet care, support heat ( I use radiant heat panel from Amazon called sweeter heater, us powerful have to set back from cage at least 6 inches) supportive foods, and yogurt really helped me save tgem. Weighing them everyday while sick help me and my vet pick up on if meds needed to increased or switched. Abd if I needed to try harder to get more food into them. Quick vet care is most is important , but yiur care is very important too.

https://www.littlecrittersvet.com/sick-birds.pml

Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I didn't realize that 14 was so old for GCCs.

I've heard advice about feeding cooked squash before, even when they're not sick. I actually bought some sugar pumpkins and butternut squashes a couple weeks ago, but they're still sitting on the counter.

I've had to transition my GCC off his previous very imbalanced diet. We're aiming for predominantly pellets and fresh vegetables, but it's a process. Dropping quality is actually very good and consistently so. His weight is also good and consistent.

I'm pretty confident that the grey feathers are not due to over-preening or other behavioral causes. This is based on general observation and regularly checking feathers at the bottom of the cage to rule it out. The evidence suggests something systemic, maybe with an environmental cause. He also had kinda fast-growing nails, which made me suspect some sort of liver toxicity from his past high-fat diet, but I'm not an expert.

 

[Green_Cheek_Conure]

I saved a sample and I am taking him to the avian vet today to handle whatever the acute problem is. Assuming the vet saves my GCC's life, I'd like to figure out what happened, and what I can change on an everyday basis to keep something like this from happening again.

The story:

Yesterday afternoon, my GCC started vomiting suddenly. GCC was standing on top of cage. Immediately prior, he had been walking around exploring the room for about an hour and a half.

GCC continued vomiting intermittently for about five minutes. Vomit material was a red-orange slurry. Each vomiting episode began with material collecting in his beak with a foamy appearance. He subsequently shook his head side to side to fling it off, while walking rapidly around the top of his cage.

Between vomiting, GCC drooped his wings and fluffed his feathers. He also rubbed his beak against cage bars a lot. GCC did NOT appear unstable or clumsy.

He has not vomited in the 24 hours since.

Vital Stats:
Species: Green Cheek Conure (GCC)
Age:14 years
Sex: Never tested, presumed male due to dark grey foot coloring + behavior
Feed: 75% Pellets + 20%dried fruit mix + 5% seeds + occasional bits of human food.
​

I strongly suspect that the red color of the vomit material is due to dye from his food, not blood. My GCC's pellets contain dye that often colors his droppings.

There have been no major changes in his diet or habitat in the last few months. No other pets.

I have been the primary caretaker for GCC for about a year. GCC is a poor flier, has only flown regularly for about three months. GCC has some sort of underlying health issue that results in downy grey chest feathers - no colored ones. This has been ongoing for ten years.

Last avian vet visit was in June 2020. GCC vomiting clear liquid due to distress related to some combination of a long car ride and smoke from a wildfire. Vet said he would likely recover without help, gave antibiotics to mix with water bowl as a precaution. Vet could not diagnose cause of grey feathers, but indicated that GCC was essentially in good health.

Some guesses at causes:

I gave him a 1/4 inch square piece of my lunch, a savory spinach-leek bread pudding. Are trace amounts of leek were enough to upset his stomach? The piece I gave him did not have any visible pieces of filling, and he has eaten similar sized pieces of egg bread before.

He chewed a hole in the terrycloth towel that he sleeps under. He has used a similar terrycloth towel as a sleep-shelter for 14 years without prior incident.

Room temperature has been a little cold for him the last couple days. May have dropped to low 60's F. He has handled greater temperature extremes without complaint before.

Yesterday was daylight savings - did I screw up his uncovering times? Per the clock, I uncovered him an hour later than the previous morning.

Cooking with teflon? I have a housemate who tends to create big smoke clouds when she cooks. We still have some teflon cookware. GCC's cage is far from the kitchen and separated by a door.

General Update after vet visit:

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. I was expecting my post to get buried or ignored. Instead, I got a flurry of intense and thoughtful interest from people who care deeply about the topic. I'm very grateful to everyone who commented. I'm new to navigating the forum mechanics on here, so I hope you'll bear with me with regard to formatting and keeping replies in the right context.

TLDR: Vet says it the vomiting episode was most likely a one-off, caused by eating pellets too fast. Vet prescribed switching from free-feeding to specific feeding times. We are also doing a course of antibiotics as a preventative measure, per the vet's advice. The vet stressed that the antibiotics were most likely unnecessary. GCC got an emphatic clean bill of health on all other counts. "A very healthy bird."

In greater detail: GCC generally returned to his old self 24 hours later. Based on details, vet felt emergency appointment was not warranted, postponed until this morning - 4 days after initial incident. GCC had no further visible symptoms in that time.

Of course, GCC promptly vomited again in front of the vet when we arrived. The vomit quality was different: still orange-red, but much less volume and a more homogenous, gummier consistency. The episode was also shorter-lived. (In the initial episode, the material was foamy and looked grainy when collected on a paper towel.)

Vet performed ultrasound, microscope analysis of stool and vomit, + normal avian checkup stuff.

Vet found no evidence of parasites, no infection, no injuries. Weight was unchanged. Vet felt GCC's behavior and affect were good. Vet believes most likely cause of vomiting was over-eating. Prescribed switching from free-feeding to specific feeding times.

Vet was relatively unconcerned about grey chest feathers. It is my understanding that many previous vets have given similar responses. Vet suggested that we could do diagnostic bloodwork in a couple weeks to get a clearer picture. Bloodwork will be very expensive (over $300!).

Vet also noted a small chip/defect in GCC's beak. Recommended trimming to correct it in a few weeks, but noted that it was mostly aesthetic. GCC's beak has no functional problems.

Why not today for the blood work/ beak trim? According to the vet, GCC would respond poorly to the added stress in the same day. Vet reemphasized that GCC is in very good health based on his exam. Vet also emphasized that beak trimming and blood work were not health necessities, and that we could just come back for annual checkup in a year.
****

I'm relieved to hear that I probably didn't poison my bird with leeks. I'll be much more careful about sharing treats in the future.
I'll probably go back for the beak trim.
I'll be honest - I've got some sticker shock with the price of that blood test. Learning the precise chemical details piques my academic curiosity, but it sounds like diagnosing my GCC will be stressful for him and unlikely to affect the actual treatment that he gets.

I'd love to hear from experienced owners about follow-up options, general thoughts - especially if you've done a blood panel on a bird.
****

My year with this GCC has been a story of balancing the stress of big changes with the laundry list of things that need to be changed. Improving my GCC's diet from seeds and frequent human food treats to the correct mix of vegetables and pellets is an ongoing process. His diet is much better now than it was a year ago.

I know in pretty great detail what my GCC's standard of care was before he came to me. Despite being full of no-nos, the old procedures kept him alive without any veterinary emergencies that I know of for 13 years. All of which is to say that I feel like for every textbook improvement I manage, he's suddenly become much more delicate.

In some cases, like diet or sleep times, I know pretty well what the end goal should be. Other things, like sleep shelters, I had no idea could be harmful until Noodles informed me in this thread. And I've done my share of reading about bird care! In the past year, my GCC has learned to fly, finally understood how forage toys work, and eaten his first green vegetables. I'm looking forward to continuing to improve my GCC's general standard of care.

 

[noodles123]

You seem very smart etc-- I just want to make sure you know that there are numerous cases of people losing birds to the same teflon pan after many years of use. That is one of the things that makes it so dang deadly-- it is fast, irreversible ,unpredictable with any use at all and very painful for the bird. When it comes to these chemicals, it is like playing roulette with your bird's life, and what seemed safe for years can kill your bird.

 

[Laurasea]

Well the vomit at vets office could be Car sick. My GCC gets motion sickness.

But I disagree that over ate and caused vomit....just no..imo and no I would not limit food, that's not how birds work..

I would definitely try some yogurt with Acidophilus as one of the cultures. Im a huge believer in the benefits. Enough to ve a global on your finger tip is enough to see a postive response in my GCC.

You must weigh your bird every day first thing in the morning, until this is past. Then once a week is good. I use a digital kitchen scale set to grams, I just place my birds on it with hands hovering ober them. But I use to use a sturdy bowl with a few seed on it zero that out and put bird on bowl. If something is wrong most times your bird will start loosing weight.

Most 95% of parrots never need a beak trim.....but vets seem to always want to do beak trims.....????? Unless there is a problem is only time to trim reshape. Beaks are growing and birds are shaping them themselves, any minor thing will grow out shortly.

Some seeds in the diet are not bad.

For example mine eat about 30% pellets , 40% seeds and the rest vegetables..im not saying this is what you should do. Just from my reading I'm pretty happy with it. Sometimes more than half to 70% of what they eat in a day is vegetables , leafy greens, very few fruits.

 

[noodles123]

How's your bird?

 

[HeatherG]

Pitching in that my Quaker used to get carsick and toss food all over when shaking her head to clear her beak and throat of vomit. If you drove to the vet that may have contributed to vomiting.