Frustrated

[Owlet]

Talking to a friend and somehow we got on the topic of parrots vs toddlers. I was arguing the side of raising a parrot to be very similar to raising a toddler.
I'm unbelievable frustrated because she has no idea what she's talking about as she has no experience with parrots, at all.

Too many pictures so I slammed them all into a google doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J7At3ayWhWXSX3WOYKK7VVvac_8aA4DCXT0ITol9Z0s/edit?usp=sharing

 

[BeatriceC]

I've generally found that these arguments can never be "won". People who don't want to learn won't listen, so there's no use wasting your time and effort.

That said, neither one of you are completely right, and both of you are showing your young ages in that exchange. A few points:

-Having a large parrot is like having a toddler: Yes, to a large extent. You are right in that there are many similarities. I joke about it all the time. But there are also a lot of differences, and your friend is right about that. You aren't out of line saying there are a lot of similarities to *only the toddler stage* of raising humans. Other issues arise in human children as they age that are not comparable to parrots, so the comparison stops short.

-The "which is more difficult" argument is so subjective, it's simply not worth having. However, my perspective is this: human toddlers are hands down more difficult than parrots, however, the period of time in which they are more difficult is shorter. She is right about your ability to leave the bird in a cage and go to school or the store or wherever. You can't do that with a toddler (though trust me, there were times when my kids were little that I desperately wished that was possible). You can't call the doctor's office and board a toddler for a few days if you need to. But she's wrong in that there is still a substantial responsibility for the animal's welfare.

-Neither one of you really know what it's like to have kids. You babysit and your friend has much younger siblings. Your friend has more of an insight than you do, but she still doesn't quite know. I also thought I know all there was to know because my parents had another baby when I was a teenager. I was wrong. Your friend is wrong too. What she's missing is something that you do know a thing or two about, and that's the financial responsibility part of things. You also have experience with the reality of not having any back up. If something goes wrong with your friends' siblings, her parents are ultimately in charge. If something bad happens to Lincoln, it's all on you. That's a much heavier weight than just caring for younger siblings a lot.

When it comes down to it, both of you have life experiences that will serve you well. You've taken on responsibility for a parrot and she's in a position where she takes on a substantial amount of care for younger siblings. Both of those things will teach both of you life skills that will serve you well.

 

[Owlet]

I never intended for things to be a "which is more difficult" I was just trying to point out similarities how it's similar. She turned it into a huge thing when she really had no right since she knows absolutely nothing about parrots as I stated. I at least had some insight into what it may be like to raise a kid. I never said it was exactly the same and I never said I 100% knew exactly what I was talking about in regards to raising a child. I just went off what I did know and what I could compare. She had no solid argument because she's never been responsible for anything. She isn't at all responsible for her sisters. Her parents don't trust her to watch over them without them home. The parents drop them off at a daycare everyday. She's never had a pet except for when she was young enough that it was just a fluffy dog she got to pet while her parents took on all the responsibilities. She just sees pets as pretty things you can tote around but in the end mean nothing. She had the courage to call me insane at the end for knowing what I'm talking about and CARING. I didn't include the end in the pictures but she was being incredibly petty, selfish, and childish. She is no longer my friend, she has never been a good friend to me and tonight she crossed the line.

If something goes wrong with a Lincoln, my parents are safety net I can fall back on if it's not something I can handle on my own. But ultimately if it is something I can control it's up to me to fix everything.

I do agree that she knows a lot more about raising a child than me, but it was unfair of her to say my argument was invalid because I don't have a child or younger siblings. I LOVE to learn. I love watching documentaries and reading up on things I might not even care about. Children have been one of those subjects over the years. I know lots of rare illnesses infants can aquire, I know a lot about the psychology and mental development of a child, I have fair knowledge about day to day life with children.

I also have a lot of older friends who have kids so I hear a lot about it from day to day. And being 18, gay, and generally uninterested in having kids of my own, that's really the closest imma get to ever having my own.

 

[YUMgrinder]

I think you guys should just agree to disagree and leave it be. you should have ended the conversation before it escalated to losing your friend

 

[Owlet]

I could have yes, but it's for the best she's not in my life anymore, as I said she was never a good friend to me and it was more of a toxic relationship than anything. Doesn't mean I'm not upset, I'm more than a little upset, but in the end it was probably for the best and I hope she can learn something from it and grow.

 

[gavagai]

I haven't had either a large parrot or a toddler, but I think what your conversation shows is that having a toddler and a large parrot pose different challenges. You're right that there's some similarities, and you're focused on those, but she's focused on the differences and in responding to her, you point out issues with larger parrots you'd never have with toddlers. (Personally, I've never had either one, but having interacted with both I'm not sure I would ever want to take on either. Though I fell in love with slender-billed cockatoos long ago, and I've heard that children can be rewarding as well.)

Also, one of the reasons I have never kept mammals as pets is because I find mammal urine and feces a lot grosser than bird droppings, so I agree with your friend there. Though both babies and parrots can be trained in elimination communication, if you have the patience for it.

 

[Owlet]

All urine and feces are gross in my opinion, but that's my opinion. And my friend couldn't pose an actual opinion on bird droppings vs toddler poo. She's never had to scrape a layer of bird dropping off the bottom of a cage. (I use news paper but it still gets on the grill and perched and toys and such. Yes parrots can be trained to communicate to a sense, but as a children grows they'll far surpass the birds abilities because they are entirely different species and parrots just lack the brain capable for that kind of development.

I was just trying to point out similarities and I feel she got very defensive because she didn't understand and refused to listen to explanation therefor cutting out any logical argument making it into a straight up fight. I tried to keep my cool throughout and try to educate her but it was just impossible. She would not listen at all. It's frustrating. I got anger, said something I shouldn't have, she said some things she shouldn't have, and that's that. My life doesn't intersect with hers in anyways so I have no concerns about having to interact with her in daily life. It's better this way in my mind. I don't like how it happened, but it's something I can get past.