Flighted bird indoors

[jasper19]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum, and to bird ownership i haven't gotten my first bird yet. I am setting up my house and preparing for it now.

My question is with keeping my bird flighted. I live out of the city, and plan to build an attachment to our house off the side as an 'outdoor' area where the bird can fly. It will be similar to a "green house" for plants, but will be used as an outdoor aviary for the bird to fly out there when im out there with him. So basically picture a green house off the side of my house, and i will just cut a door in the wall to enter from my house. I do not ever plan on flying my bird completely outside.

My concern isn't with that setup (though if you have any thoughts on how to set it up that would be great)...but rather with when i have the bird inside will him being flighted be a problem?

I would still like my bird to be able to be out of his cage when in the house. His cages will be in the house not in the aviary. The aviary will only be for him flying. I live in a climate where it gets cold 5 months of the year, so only when its nice will it be used.]

I own dogs, and cats. I am concerned with the bird randomly flying all over the house. Also my house is somewhat small, no high ceilings or anything. Can i keep the bird in the house if it can fly? Also i posted this in macaw section because that is the type of bird i am interested in getting.

Any opinion or thoughts will be considered and greatly appreciated. I love animals of all kinds, and want to prepare as best as possible to give the bird a great home.

 

[Phlox]

My birds are flighted (with rare exceptions) and they don't have an aviary. I just carefully get them used to the house and away they go. I try to get the worst dangers out of the way (no cooking, ceiling fans off, etc) and then they learn to navigate. I also have 2 dogs and 4 cats. HOWEVER, my other pets are very well trained and the birds are only out and about supervised. I take them with me to use the bathroom even.

You need to station train your bird to know where is acceptable and where is not. I have baskets and playstands, etc they know are bird territory. There's not really "random" anything going on.

 

[Birdman666]

Properly trained it shouldn't be a problem. I've had both flighted and not flighted. If you have things like ceiling fans, don't use them with flighted birds in the house.

The downside is if they get spooked and fly into something in a panic, and the other thing is restricting access to places where they could get into trouble, like the kitchen.

Mine are "stay put" trained.

 

[SilverSage]

I have flighted birds, and we are working toward having a fully flighted household. There are dangers with flying, but in my opinion there are more dangers in being clipped, ESPECIALLY in a house with other pets! My birds do not fly randomly, as they are tame and trained, and know where things are in the house, etc. Generally thy just want to be near me or near the other birds. Also, I think a flighted bird who is sometimes in the cage is happier than a clipped bird who is never confined to his cage.

As to your greenhouse - my version of that is simply a "picnic tent" with zipper doors that is staked to the ground every 6 inches. Please, NEVER EVER take your bird outside without a harness or carrier, even if he is clipped, and even if it is only a few steps to your aviary - that is how heartbreak happens.

 

[thekarens]

My mac is flighted and my sennies are not, both for very good reasons. Zoe, my mac, is a great flier and seems to maneuver and corner well, even though our house is relatively small. However, when I'm cooking she gets locked up because her new favorite thing is to fly to the finch cage and give them a heart attack when I leave the room (even though the kitchen is only maybe 5 steps away.)

I have 4 dogs and 2 cats. They are all well trained to ignore the bird(s). If you have dogs and/or cats that aren't trained I would recommend putting them in a separate room or outside or in a crate when your bird is loose.

If you're wondering why my sennies are clipped when my mac isn't it's because my sennies are nervous birds and tend to startle easily and fly into walls, windows, etc. My mac isn't easily spooked and she's a great flier. She only goes outside with an aviator harness.

 

[jasper19]

As to your greenhouse - my version of that is simply a "picnic tent" with zipper doors that is staked to the ground every 6 inches. Please, NEVER EVER take your bird outside without a harness or carrier, even if he is clipped, and even if it is only a few steps to your aviary - that is how heartbreak happens.

Thank for the reply silver sage, and all others so far to.

My ideal would be to have it connected directly to the house. If it can't be, then i will make certain to put bird in the carrier. I can imagine even just a couple steps the bird could take off. That would horrible.

 

[noblemacaw]

I asked Valentino's breeder not to give him a "going to the new home clip". I wanted him to remain fully flighted. However I have lived with fully flighted birds for many many years and have adjusted the way I live for this to happen.

RFM's are very happy with the ability to fly. I feel strongly if I was to clip his wings it would harm him physiology. These birds have the natural ability to fly really well and I cannot take that from Valentino. Never once has he knocked over anything or flew into the wall/window or has ever been clumsily with his flying.

At this time I live in a two story town home. He can fly anywhere in the house. I chuckled with Phlox's comment of taking her bird to the bathroom with her. When I walk away from Valentino playing in his Java tree to use the bathroom Valentino will notice I am not in the same room and will fly the house looking for me. I have not been to the bathroom by myself in a long time.

I use to have a dog and a cat. Both mammals were trained to leave my birds alone. It was challenging with my dog but with consistent training she learned not to jump up to "get" Valentino when he is flying about. The cat is a Ragdoll and she could care less for the parrot as she had a deep relationship with the dog and with me.

It takes a huge effort with a lot of training to have a mixed animal household. It also takes some experience and training to live with a flighted parrot who has free will. I am jealous of your planned "aviary". I would love to have a set up like that for Valentino.

 

[SilverSage]

I really like the idea of it being attached to the house - how envious I am!

Some things you can do to make your home safer for a flighted (or any) bird:

1. Train your family and friends. This is easier if you are an adult than if you are a minor living at home. When I was a kid I would just launch into a lecture about how easily birds can die whenever I found a safety infraction such as an open door, a ceiling fan on, or the dog not locked up (that dog was NOT bird safe and killed my second bird). As an adult I enforce consequences when these things happen. You could make a game of it before your bird comes home to build the habits, like everyone starts the day with 10 pieces of candy (that you can't eat until supper or something) If you catch someone doing a "birdy no-no" such as leaving the door open, you get one piece of their candy. This trains the whole family to have an eye out for things that are dangerous to the bird, while keeping it positive.

2. Re-think "normal." For me, normal is having a curtain on my kitchen door because I don't have a real door. I also lock EVERY door except the back door, which is behind the curtain, around a corner, and down a hall. I do not allow my birds near it. Some people suggest placing a deadbolt or chain lock on the inside of every door, simply as a reminder to you. You lock the doors before you get the bird out. Then, even if you have forgotten the bird is on your shoulder (Sounds silly until you are more used to them being there than not being there), when you go to answer the door you have to unlock the deadbolt first, a reminder that the bird is out. It also keeps the doors from being unexpectedly opened from the outside. A friend of mine has a sliding glass door in ehr livingroom, and put a magnetic fly-screen on the inside, so that even when the door is open there is a second layer of protection that snaps closed automatically. It probably wouldnt keep a determined or terrified bird inside, but it is dark and LOOKS like they can't get out.

3.Establish a cooking protocol. Any bird, clipped or not, can land on a hot stove or in the dish water, a flighted one is less likely to do so on accident because he can steer much better than a clipped bird, but it can still happen, and with a flighted bird he can get into the room faster when you are not looking. In our house we have the curtain. If the stove is hot the curtain is closed. Many people simply do not allow their birds out of the cage when someone is cooking, and in a one bird house that is a very wise choice. Also, I assume you have read up on safe cookware? TEFLON IS NOT A JOKE. Don't use it. Ever. Research which cookware is safe. in my oven I use only glass and on my stove only stainless steel, though some prefer cast iron.

4. Train the dogs and cats. Yes, cats can be trained! In this case getting a Macaw gives you an advantage over getting say, a Green Cheek or other small bird. The larger the animal the less likely to be seen as "prey." You and only you can determine what you need to train your animals to do. I recomend starting (Assuming you have basic control of your dogs, if not start with Cesar Millan - anything by him you can get your hands on, and watch his show dog whisperer on youtube. Good stuff for any dog owner) with the command "leave it" or even simply "no." You need your dogs to understand that this is NON-NEGOTIABLE and when you say it, they leave it! Cats too. I am not a cat trainer, I don't know how to do it, but I know that bird owners accomplish this somehow. Your dogs need to know YOU are the pack leader, and the bird is YOURS! You will need to understand how to use body language to "claim" your birds. If your dogs are not well trained to start with, fix that. I don't mean they can do tricks, I mean they don't run the house, they know the rules and boundaries, they are respectful, they are not possessive or aggressive in any way. Your dogs need to have a healthy relationship with you before you can trust them around the birds. This is sometimes hard but it CAN be done. If you don't think your pets are trustworthy (and most never are) you need to train yourself, your family, and the pets to understand when the bird comes out, the other pets go away first! And have a way of signaling this to the family to avoid accidents. Fido and Fluffy may need to become crate trained.
- Also, you need to have an emergency vet set up BEFORE you bring baby bird home, and have the funds. Any scratch or bite, no matter if it bleeds or not, can be fatal to your bird if not treated immediately.

5. Bird proof your house starting with the plants. Many bird owners can have toxic houseplants, because they just "keep the birds away from them." I don't believe it is wise, but many of them do not believe my policy with my dog is wise. We can still be respectful of one another. Here is the thing though - flighted birds are a lot harder to simply "keep away" from things. Get rid of your non bird safe plants, and in the plants you do keep (Mine love to chew on plants anyway) switch out the "potting soil" for dirt. You know, so they don't eat those little fertilizer balls! Also hide your cords, books, etc. Find a way to keep birdy off anything you don't want chewed. Some of this can be accomplished through training, but I would rather use a phone book to train my birds to leave the things on the shelf alone rather than my rare first editions or family keepsake books.

6. It may seem silly to say, but you don't just need the funds to care for the bird, you need a financial PLAN to care for the bird. What happens if you lose your house? Can you afford to be picky about housing or will you join the thousands of bird lovers forced to rehome their birds? What if you lose your job? Do you have savings for the bird in this case, or will you have to sell him to feed your family? What about emergency vet care? Who will take the bird if he or she outlives you?

Anyway, just some things to get ready You probably know all these things already but I am in a "why are people allowed to own parrots without a license?" mood

 

[jasper19]

6. It may seem silly to say, but you don't just need the funds to care for the bird, you need a financial PLAN to care for the bird. What happens if you lose your house? Can you afford to be picky about housing or will you join the thousands of bird lovers forced to rehome their birds? What if you lose your job? Do you have savings for the bird in this case, or will you have to sell him to feed your family? What about emergency vet care? Who will take the bird if he or she outlives you?

Anyway, just some things to get ready You probably know all these things already but I am in a "why are people allowed to own parrots without a license?" mood

I am on the same page you are. It really almost enrages me when i see all these pets dogs, cats or otherwise for sale on craigslist. And the reason "moving cant take with" or "cant affod".....or " moved into apartment they aren't allowed"....its like they didn't know before they moved there that they couldnt take their animal with or something.

if your moving, you better make sure you can take your animals. people treat their pets like objects, like assets selling and buying. I treat my animals like family, or try to the best i can. So yes i agree with you and will make sure of these things the best i can.

The teflon thing i need to look into more, some places i have read say just don't have the bird in the room, others say not use them at all. I use stainless currently, but my significant other lives and dies with nonstick cookware. i am trying to find something that is somewhat nonstick that would be safe for birds.

 

[SilverSage]

Google how to season a pan with coconut oil to make it non-stick. And yeah, some people say dont have them in the room, but I can say with heartbreaking certainty from devastating personal experience that not having them in the room is not good enough, even if you open the windows and such. If the people you live with cannot agree not to poison your pet, please do not bring it home.

 

[veimar]

It sounds like a great plan, but HOW are you going to make sure your bird flies only in the designated room, not around the house? I have two of my 5 birds fully flighted now after the molt, and one of them, the green cheek conure, flies like a rocket all over the place (I don't have any "special" room for the birds). I decided to have no cats and dogs in order for my birds to be safe, but if you do have them you should be supervising all the time. I think that if you are planning to have a fully flighted bird uncaged you should expect it to fly around your house at least occasionally. And also a flighted bird need a really big space to fly (unless it's a budgie) - I'm not sure if your "flight-room" will provide that. My gcc has about 500-600 sq ft to fly around, and that seems fair, but not too much.

 

[jasper19]

It sounds like a great plan, but HOW are you going to make sure your bird flies only in the designated room, not around the house? I have two of my 5 birds fully flighted now after the molt, and one of them, the green cheek conure, flies like a rocket all over the place (I don't have any "special" room for the birds). I decided to have no cats and dogs in order for my birds to be safe, but if you do have them you should be supervising all the time. I think that if you are planning to have a fully flighted bird uncaged you should expect it to fly around your house at least occasionally. And also a flighted bird need a really big space to fly (unless it's a budgie) - I'm not sure if your "flight-room" will provide that. My gcc has about 500-600 sq ft to fly around, and that seems fair, but not too much.

Hi Viemar!

I guess i haven't thought about your question yet, perhaps training would limit the bird leaving the room i am in? I do not plan to have the bird free at all times. Only when am home will the bird be out....Over night will be caged, and when i am working will be caged in living room, is my current plan anyways.

The size of the flying area i would like to build i haven't figured out either. What size would give a macaw enough room to fly down a stretch, turn around in flight and come back?...I have quite a bit of flexibility when it comes to the size. I do not have any requirements to meet or building codes to follow, i am in a rural area with about 12 acres. My house has plenty of land around. It would just come down to the cost of the building as it grows in size.

Also is height important with an outdoor run/flight area? What should the ceiling height be on something like that? Does anyone here currently have their bird fly in an out door flight pen? what are the dimensions on your facility?

Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

[SilverSage]

Birds do fly where they want, and in order to limit that you cans station train, but the easiest thing is simply to have a plan for when the bird is out. Such as, dogs go in crates, cats go in the bedroom, and a sign goes on the door, or a child proof latch, or SOMETHING to make people think twice before letting them out.

A flighted bird DOES need a lot of space, but a non-flighted bird still needs the exercise. Choosing to clip simply makes it much harder for a bird to get enough exercise. I would say that even though you can never recreate the 20+ miles of flight a wild parrot would do in a day, some flying is better than no flying. My outdoor tent is 10X10.

 

[Anansi]

I absolutely love the list of "things you can do to make your home safer for a flighted (or any) bird" posted by SilverSage. Very sound advice.

I would add the importance of teaching your parrot about windows and mirrors. Of course you want to keep both covered to the extent that you can, but accidents happen. So you want to introduce your new fid to EVERY window and mirror in your home, repeatedly, before allowing him/her to fly about. Tap the glass with your fingers, then make sure that they do the same with their beaks, until you see that they get the idea.

Also, keep in mind that birds need to be trained to fly. Especially in the skills needed to go from a higher point to a lower point. (This is huge if ever the unthinkable happens and your fid flies up into a tree. Flying upward comes instinctively. Down? Not so much.) 2 adjustable height training perches work very well for this purpose, gradually increasing the distance between them and alternating their respective heights as your bird gains skill and strength.

And lastly, I just want to emphasize what everyone has been saying about being vigilant when your cats or dogs are around your bird. Even if they are trained to have the gentle nature of Lassie (or the feline equivalent), never trust them alone with your parrot. Flighted or no.

And if they aren't EXTREMELY well-trained, don't even have them out at the same time. Any one of the three is easily faster than we are.

Good luck with your macaw! I'm looking forward to pics!

 

[jasper19]

Good luck with your macaw! I'm looking forward to pics!

Thanks everyone....it may be a couple months yet before i take the plunge. I will for sure post many pictures.

I also need to figure out where to find someone reputable that sells birds, anyone know someone in North dakota?

 

[Phlox]

Here you go:

Bird Breeders in North Dakota ND - BirdBreeders.com - Avian Directory of Available Birds and Bird Breeders

You can sort by species you're interested in.

 

[SilverSage]

What part of North Dakota? I know a couple in South Dakota - one in Brookings (South Eastern SD) but I don't think she has Macaws (Pionus are her specialty) and one in the Rapid City area (South Western SD) and there is a parrot rescue in Belle Fourche (also South Western SD)

 

[jasper19]

What part of North Dakota? I know a couple in South Dakota - one in Brookings (South Eastern SD) but I don't think she has Macaws (Pionus are her specialty) and one in the Rapid City area (South Western SD) and there is a parrot rescue in Belle Fourche (also South Western SD)

Fargo, ND. Eastern part of the state.

I am not opposed to some travel to get to a reputable person.

I suppose there are other threads for this question, but is getting a young bird recommended over getting one that is already grown?

 

[SilverSage]

Well, I was actually just going to post about that in answer to what anansi said. She is right that birds have to learn how to fly, and learn about windows and mirrors, but they should be learning that with the breeder before they wean. When I say "should" I don't mean you can expect it, I mean that pre-weaning is when they should be learning this, and the breeder should be allowing them to, though many do not. My IRNs are expert fliers, and have never hit a window or mirror, and we cover neither. They learned these things before they weaned. They flew all over the breeders house while supervised and learned all the things that a bird that age should learn, like how to recognize a piece of glass you cannot fly through, how to fly up and down (down is much harder for them) and even the beginnings of recall training. So if you get a bird that was not properly fledged and weaned, you will have to teach these things to the bird, but a good raising will teach them before they get to you.

As to a young or old bird, it really depends. I like to see a new parrot owner with an older bird that has proven himself to be a good pet, as it means the new owner gets introduced to "how parrots are" instead of baby parrot who then turns into a hormonal teenager. However GOOD PETS at an older age are a little harder to come by, and a lot easier to get scammed looking for one. Typically good older pets don't get rehomed unless they outlive their owners or something changes financially. Many people will claim this is the reason they are selling their bird when really it is because they are a biter, a screamer, etc. So getting an older bird has its risks. Either way in the end it just depends on what is available to you. I grew up in Aberdeen SD, so not too far from you. Although, since leaving I have realized that while in the mid west "not too far" can mean 7-8 hours, in other places it means different things. For example I had someone say she lived too far away from me for me to purchase a pair of GCCs here in Hawaii. How far you ask? 35-40 minute drive... I am not even kidding.

 

[Anansi]

Well, I was actually just going to post about that in answer to what anansi said. She is right...

Uhmm... "She" is VERY much a "he". Hahaha! Guess this can serve as something of a formal introduction. My name is Stephen.

Other than that, I'm in agreement with your points. Flying skills should be taught at the breeders, but unfortunately that is rarely the case. Many actually opt to clip before fledging, for convenience sake.