Fatty liver disease

[gazzington]

Hi
I am wondering if somebody can give me advice. My 5 year old hen has had some blood test and had been diagnosed with fatty liver disease. Only thing is she hastill always had a very good diet of pellets and fresh vegetables. Anyhow she also had raised white blood cells so she has antibiotics and liver medicine.
Because her diet is good what could have caused this? She is lazy and does not fly much, could this be the cause?

 

[gazzington]

Forgot to say she is a blue fronted amazon.

 

[Scott]

Sorry to hear of this diagnosis. I'd think 5 years is a fairly young age for fatty liver disease, but genetics may be a factor. Have you had her the majority of her life?

If the vet gave a clear explanation of the illness and provided a broad spectrum of therapies and dietary suggestions, follow the guidance and follow up with periodic testing. If not, please ask questions, lots of questions, and seek a second opinion.

Though I have not dealt with this so far, many on the forum have had much success with liquid aloe treatment of liver issues.

 

[SailBoat]

Very sorry to hear that your Amazon has Fatty Liver Disease!

I do not understand how a five year old Amazon could be lazy and doesn't fly much unless it is caged for extended periods of time. Our DYH Amazon is 18 years old, commonly makes six or more trips around the 'family room' and other trips every day and moves in and out, and up and down his cage all day long.

Clearly, you have been to your Vet and gotten a full blood screen for your Amazon. What brought you to taking your Amazon to see his Vet? What else did your Vet tell you about your Amazon? Anything? Like maybe his weight? Etc.... What did your Vet recommend regarding the future care for your Amazon?

What kind of treats are your providing your Amazon? And how much?

An active Amazon, which is getting a 'good diet' will likely not present with Fatty Liver Disease. So, much more information please?

 

[gazzington]

She is out of the cage for over 4 hours every day. Her cage is macaw cage and is massive. She has a spoonful of Harrisons pellets in the morning. We give her a bowl of vegetables in the morning and late afternoon. This includes kale, carrots, broccoli, peas and radish. She also has a small amount of fruit every day. As treats she has the occasional nutraberry.

 

[gazzington]

We we went to the vet to get her dna tested. The vet was shocked with the results as her featherson and general condition are very good. We have to give her Meds for a month and then take her back

 

[gazzington]

Sorry words have come out wrong. Autocorrect on phone

 

[SailBoat]

Without question your Vet should have redone that blood test and sent an addition screen to a second Lab as soon as she/he got it back! If that has not be done, please do so ASAP!

Is this Vet an Avian Vet?

So did your Vet take your BFA's weight? If not, can you? A five year old should be under 450 grams.


Thanks for the information!

At this point, please continue to provide the medication supplied! If possible, could you please list the medications?

 

[GraciesMom]

There are others that will no doubt be able to help guide you in regards to Amazon's specifically.. I see Sailboat already asked great questions.

I did want to comment on "She is lazy and does not fly much"
I have a 15-20 yr. old African Grey, that was ill when I got her with many health issues including fatty liver disease & while her past diet with previous owners certainly played a part her lack of activity/exercise contributed too & was one of the primary things my avian vet had me address when I got her.

If she isn't being active on her own & there isn't any health issues that could cause her to be inactive then I'd get her engaged & participating/active with your guidance.
I set up boings, foraging, toys etc. in a way that encouraged Gracie to explore vertically her cage/play area more, climbing, swinging, hanging etc. I also worked with her to fly her around since she doesn't take off flying often on her own so a few times a day/evening I'd play "Let's fly" & I'd have her take off from my hand do a few laps & return to me (or as often the case she'd land on her boing).

What I realized is I could provide all of the enrichment, toys etc. in the world, free time & if she wasn't being active then it was up to me to help her get engaged.
Before long it became her normal activity. If there are days when she's lazing around then I switch things up & encourage her to go do something instead of perching around.

Maybe she's bored, wants interaction couldn't be any number of things but I don't think lazy to be lazy is really a parrots natural inclination.

Same principle as kicking the kids off the couch to go out & play

Since she is having health issues I would talk to your avian vet to determine the amount, type, duration etc. of exercise/changes that should occur to keep her healthy & not endanger her health etc. My avian vet was more than willing to work up an exercise/activity plan & make recommendations to best improve her health safely.
Gracie has heart disease too so it's important that she get her exercise/cardio regularly & does have other dietary needs & restrictions.

Obviously fatty foods should stop this included sunflower seeds, some nuts etc.

Restorative sleep will also be important to help promote healing while the liver recovers.

Is your girl overweight? I'm assuming that you had testing done? Do you know what was run?

My other concern would also be for your young parrots heart health if she doesn't get active & healthy as it's believed that fatty liver disease can be linked to atherosclerosis and the same factors can cause both ie. diets high in fat, cholesterol and lack of exercise. African Greys & Amazon's seem to be more prone to it with obesity, lack of exercise, poor diet & high fat, unbalanced diet or unhealthy treats being contributing favors.

Good luck with your girl - I hope she recovers without any additional problems.

 

[Birdman666]

Five years old is VERY young to come down with fatty liver disease, and I would also suspect the diagnosis if this bird has not been on an all seed diet it's entire life.

IF IT WERE MY BIRD I'D GET THIS BIRD ON ALOE DETOX AS SOON AS POSSIBLE...

My 38 year old BFA had fatty liver disease, and had elevated liver values to the point where she should have been dead, and I was told to give the bird comfort measures... She's gonna die.

I got a tip from bird breeder Carolyn Swicegood... who had the same diagnosis on her favorite Eckie hen. She got as much Aloe Detox in the bird as possible, and the bird fully recovered.

MY BIRD WENT FROM SHE SHOULD BE DEAD... TO WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS IN THE SPACE OF TWO MONTHS!!!!

LILLY OF THE DESERT ALOE DETOX. I MIXED IT 50/50 WITH APPLE JUICE, AND OFFERED IT TO HER SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. LET HER DRINK HER FILL...

TRUST ME THIS PRODUCT WORKS!!!

 

[gazzington]

He is on the following meds
destolit for liver
Marbocyl antibiotic
Lactulose for liver
I have also now been adding aloe Vera to her water. How much would you all recommend I add each time? I have also been adding drops of milk thistle as an alternative to aloe Vera throughout the day.

 

[SailBoat]

Appears to be a fairly standard Meds offering.

Strongly recommend that you read Birdman 666 Post again as a conformation, since he stated a 50/50 mix with Apple Juice, switched out during the day to keep mixture fresh.

Have you been back in contact with your Vet and do you have an appointment for a retest of the blood screen with another Lab?

 

[gazzington]

She has an appointment in two weeks time to read test blood. I just can't understand how she can have fatty liver since her diet is good, although she is close to 500g.

 

[SailBoat]

OK, that's one big BFA. There are a couple of natural Hybrids that are larger, but their coloration is clearly different from yours.

At 500g your BFA is at the very highest end of the 'normal' weight range for the full family of all BFA variations. This does not make any sense based on what you are feeding and the way you are feeding your Amazon. Yes, not being an active Amazon can easily add weight and you need to start now in working with your Amazon to get her moving. I would also double check everything that your Amazon is getting fed and whether you are the only person feeding your Amazon or if you are getting help, maybe!?! Be kind, and you will more likely get an honest answer!

Check the sugar level of the Pellet diet you are providing. Move to a Pellet that has NO sugar and No salt! Lots of Pellet manufacturers load the sugar to get Parrots to eat it!

As stated before, follow the advise of BirdMan666 and also get your Amazon active. Lots of games involving passing the Amazon and having the Amazon walk back, etc, etc, etc.....

Flying Your Amazon! Do not start flying your Amazon until your Avian Vet gives your a Go Ahead! Please have your Avian Vet let you hear your Amazon's heart beat !!!! It is very important that you hear it and know the sound and rate! If your Amazon's heart begins to race, by placing your Amazon's chest near your ear you can hear a racing heart. YOU NEED TO LEARN THIS! Why: Fatty Liver Disease is commonly hand-in-hand with Heart Problems in older Amazons! Little is know of this connection in very young Amazons!

Flying Your Amazon! Start with very short flights ending on a bed (a large soft place to land safely!!!! EACH Time, Listen to your Amazon's Heart rate. Once the rate rises, STOP for the day!

 

[gazzington]

Thanks for your replies. They are really helpful and making me feel I can fix this. The only treats I can see others giving her are nutraberry. I have been making her fly from one end of the room back to her cage and she wasn't even out of breath. I will listen to the heart though. She has also been taking all her Meds quite easily.
I just need to believe she will be OK.

 

[MonicaMc]

Aloe vera is not the same as aloe detox. Milk thistle could be given twice a day.


Reading this thread reminded me of a Q&A with an expert. I found the response to be interesting, because it's the opposite of what many people would suggest when it comes to weight management.

https://www.parrots.org/ask-an-expert/overweight-amazon-parrot




And truth be told, after switching one of my birds to Harrison's, he put on a lot of weight! He was fine on Zupreem and Roudybush, but after Harrison's, the weight went on! Switching to different pellets didn't do any good... so I can't help but wonder if a similar diet as mentioned by this expert may be beneficial to him.

 

[SailBoat]

The above Post was truly an interesting read and the source, EB Cravens an individual who I have long read and the group World Parrot Trust have long lists of creditable writings and reports. I have never been a Pellet and only Pellet diet person and have always believed in a wide and varied diet for our Amazons. In addition, I have never followed an extensive offering of Spouts either, but would if found to be needed.

The problem that I had with the WPT's writing was the Amazon Owner's description of the Amazon's illness. A Avian Certified Vet would have ID an over weight Parrot after a examination including handling the body and chest regions and support by the scale weight of the Parrot. The most confusing part was the Avian Tech commenting on the illness 'possibly being' liver. Now since I am a Client and have been on the receiving end of some fair complicated medical information, as Clients we can tend to forget or confuse information. That is why one should always be provided a written document covering the findings of the visit, the conclusions, the recommended treatments and the follow-up visit.

To that end, I'm going to guess that the 'Client' i.e. the Amazon Owner likely forgot to include or forgot the findings of the Avian Vet and therefore did not include it. EB Cravens with limited information provided a detailed diet that closely mirrored his recommended base diet that he provides his Parrots. I only wished I had the time and property to provide my Amazon with the same. If you can provide a diet that includes as much as possible, please do so!

Regarding Pellets; since they have been such a 'hot button' subject. I am going to float around the edge and state that they should be part of an already well varied and balanced diet. If at all possible avoid those that include sugar, salt and coloring as they add nothing to the overall diet of your parrot.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Noticed today that Harrison's do a pellet for liver and kidney conditions please see stockist and/or http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28242-ingredients-pellets-8.html

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Amy,my BFA is not a hen..she is a he in drag I found this out this past april when I took her in for a wellness check and blood work. I have had Amy since "she' was 14 weeks old,and is now almost 27 yrs old,and decided to have her DNA'd,since the doc was going to have to draw blood anyway.
Amy doesn't "fly",she never really has. She is clipped in the spring,so she can go out with me in the summertime. In the winter,I let her feathers grow back. She "walks" a lot. Down the hall to the kitchen..she follows BB around like a lost puppy. She goes "outside,in the car" as she puts it,quite often.
She does eat seeds,but VERY little,preferring her nummy bowl,which consists of every thing GOOD..peas and corn,carrots,kale,lettuce,fruits..banana's,orange,grapes < red,not green,she doesn't like them :52:>, nutraberries as a treat..pasta,chicken leg bones..and being a 'zon, she has a very healthy appetite.

Her weight varies..at her last doc visit,she was 482g's,I think.. This past Sunday we visited Al, ,<Wrench13> and Salty,and for s****and giggles,weighed both 'zons,and she was 502,or 504g's :52:. I attribute it to her helping herself to BB's plate when he isn't looking.

Her doc gave "her' a thorough exam..her heart was good and her liver fine..maybe coz "she" is really a "he'?

On the other side of the coin,I lost my precious Smokey <TAG> last year,at 27 years old,do to heart disease and liver problems,and she was active,but the doc told me these conditions are not strange for an A.G.

Jim