emailed to Kali's breeder.

[Macawlover12]

I did a final plea tonight for the breeder not to clip Kalis wings. She told me the reason she clips is because other customers had complained about their birds trainability.

I understand where she is coming from but I am hoping she will grant my request. It is something I feel very strongly about.

I talked to her about my plans and hopefully that will help to change hers. I am even willing to pay more for the trouble.

I would still recommend this breeder to others even if she does clip. She is a very nice person and all her birds seem healthy and socialized.

 

[SilverSage]

Wow, I hope she agrees. I would never buy from a breeder who refused to honor such a simple request because to me, that shows she is too set in her ways to think of the good of the customer, which is a huge red flag! To me, there would be too much of a risk that she would be the kind of person who does things because they have always been done that way, and that is a risk to the birds! Of course it sounds like you already have a baby picked out, I hope she is wise enough to understand the benefits of leaving her unclipped. She should NOT charge you more for this.

 

[Macawlover12]

She has been a great breeder and I have nothing negative to say about her. I admit I will be very disappointed if she still clips the wings.
I wouldnt mind giving her a lil extra to deal with kali while she flies at her house.
Eh ill wait and see what she says. But she is a good breeder and is very attentive with her birds. I can tell she loves, each and every ome of them.

 

[getwozzy]

I hope she changes her mind!!

Even if she's still adamant about clipping, is she at least going to wait until after Kali is fledged?

 

[Macawlover12]

I just feel very passionately about her not being clipped. I am willing to put the extra time in training. I love that bird and will always do what I think is right for her. I just believe she will live a happier and healthier life here with her wings.

 

[Sterling1113]

I can understand both sides. (Even though it is a VERY controversial topic in the world of aviculture.)
I can understand why she doesn't want to, because it is her business(or as some call it their 'passion' or 'calling'..) and she could be quite firm and stand by her ways of dealing business.
However breeding (any animal) is a rather personal business, especially once you get down to the customer already having their baby picked out. So she may be willing to do something different than usual in your favor.
How old will the baby be when you get her? If she's already fledged and learned how to fly(which most birds can do, when taught, before weaning is done) then clipping won't be horribly detrimental to the bird, you'll just have to wait for her next molt.

 

[Macawlover12]

Yes, they will be fully flighted before (if) she clips them.

 

[Sterling1113]

Then that's not so bad, just have to be patient until they grow back.
I'm waiting on all of mine to re-grow their flight feathers. Should be getting a molt within the next couple months.

 

[Kiwibird]

Clipped or flighted is a choice to be made STRICTLY by the OWNER, not the breeder or anyone else. Every situation, home and bird is different, so whereas it may be better for some to be clipped, others its better to keep flighted. If specifically requested by the buyer, I cannot imagine WHY she sees this as an issue. I understand that may be routine, but if you request her not to, that should be your choice. I hope she respects your wishes and I agree with silversage- she should NOT charge extra.

 

[Macawlover12]

I can understand both sides. (Even though it is a VERY controversial topic in the world of aviculture.)
I can understand why she doesn't want to, because it is her business(or as some call it their 'passion' or 'calling'..) and she could be quite firm and stand by her ways of dealing business.
However breeding (any animal) is a rather personal business, especially once you get down to the customer already having their baby picked out. So she may be willing to do something different than usual in your favor.
How old will the baby be when you get her? If she's already fledged and learned how to fly(which most birds can do, when taught, before weaning is done) then clipping won't be horribly detrimental to the bird, you'll just have to wait for her next molt.

She will be flighted b4 the wings are clipped. Its just a personal preference for me and I want to get her training started with the aviator harness as fast as possible. I have safety proofed my house for her and her ability to fly. I am ready to take on the challenge.

 

[getwozzy]

COMPLETELY agree, Kiwibird!!

I wanted Chili to come home with unclipped wings, but the breeder had already clipped them before I had even contacted them with my interest in a galah... But! I think she should respect your wishes (as Kali's parront!) and not clip her wings.

 

[Macawlover12]

Clipped or flighted is a choice to be made STRICTLY by the OWNER, not the breeder or anyone else. Every situation, home and bird is different, so whereas it may be better for some to be clipped, others its better to keep flighted. If specifically requested by the buyer, I cannot imagine WHY she sees this as an issue. I understand that may be routine, but if you request her not to, that should be your choice. I hope she respects your wishes and I agree with silversage- she should NOT charge extra.

I hope she gives me the option. I told her that even if it doesn't work out. My vet would clip her if I requested him to. I just really prefer to work with her.

 

[Sterling1113]

I understand completely! I've never had a baby, but if I ever get one from a breeder, I'd want him/her to be fledged also. Makes recall/flight training so much easier when they're young.
I was just trying to shed some positive like on the scenario I guess. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to argue your preference hah. I do hope she leaves her fledged for you though!

 

[Macawlover12]

I will take her advice ultimately. Feathers will grow back and I understand that. I cant say anything negative about her, cause she has gone above and beyond to make me happy. I appreciate her years of experience and all. Im just hoping for the best.... I will just have to wait for her reply. I am crossing my fingers for good news

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm not sure that it's a good idea to clip parrots before the age of 6-12 months of age. Having a bird fly for 2-4 weeks before clipping them is not an ideal amount of time to *really* learn how to fly. Pamela Clark, a breeder of african greys, has even noticed that all the bad things mentioned about greys (very clumsy, spooks easily, very nervous birds, etc) is only true of greys clipped at a young age! Greys that are allowed to keep their flights as they grow up and mature do not have those problems!



If the breeder does end up clipping the wings, you can always get her imped! That is, the process of getting molted feathers and attaching those to the clipped feathers. However, it may be tricky because you may require two full sets of flight feathers, and you'll be needing to find someone (or multiple people) who allow their macaws to remain flighted.


Imping; Replacing Mowglie's Clipped Flight Feathers by Steve Hartman    The Parrot University


http://m.theparrotuniversity.com/photos/imping_parrots/Blue_Throat_Macaw_with_outstretched_wings.jpg


http://www.sanctuaryfederation.org/...ds-Damaged-or-Clipped-Wings-Greg-Glendell.pdf



Here is a scarlet macaw with flights from various macaw species and hybrids that allowed him to fly! (he kept breaking flights on one wing, so he could never fly - imping was done as a 'last resort' to get him flying!) Feathers were donated from B&G's, Military, GW, Capri, and Harlequins.


[ame=http://youtu.be/1ExEEOAQXzE]Mauiflapping - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://youtu.be/pmuzzyIEFPc]Mauiflyin - YouTube[/ame]





Here's hoping that Kali isn't clipped!!!!

 

[RavensGryf]

Clipped or flighted is a choice to be made STRICTLY by the OWNER, not the breeder or anyone else. Every situation, home and bird is different, so whereas it may be better for some to be clipped, others its better to keep flighted. If specifically requested by the buyer, I cannot imagine WHY she sees this as an issue. I understand that may be routine, but if you request her not to, that should be your choice. I hope she respects your wishes and I agree with silversage- she should NOT charge extra.

I love that, and I agree. Perfectly stated! Getting the points across while remaining neutral with such a highly opinionated topic

 

[JerseyWendy]

Yes, they will be fully flighted before (if) she clips them.

Then that's not so bad, just have to be patient until they grow back.

Well, in my case, I had to wait 3 years for Niko to grow back all his flight feathers (successfully).

His breeder also trimmed (against my wishes). She said she couldn't have a macaw flying all over the place, especially because there were other birds around. I was majorly miffed.

Each time Niko would start growing out a few flights he'd have a crash landing and broke them off again. And it always ended in a blood bath, too. At one time he had broken off every single flight on his right wing. He looked pitiful! I was so afraid he'd done permanent damage, but he eventually grew them all out. And yes, it took over 3 years. :32:

 

[labell]

I must say I agree that it should be left up to the new owner, it takes much longer than a few successful flights for a parrot to become confident in landing and flying and just as long if not longer for breast muscles to really develop.
I was not given a choice with my Jillie and she was given a pretty hard clip, she is the one that has the most confidence issues and the one that is cage territorial. Her flight feathers have still not completely grown back yet.
Yes it might be a little more work for the breeder to make sure the baby is in a safe room and work on landing and flying but frankly that is what they are getting paid for imo.

 

[Macawlover12]

I have not heard back yet but I do agree with everyone. It should be the buyers choice. I do however see it from the breeders point of view. She will have a flighted bird in her home for about a month. This could result in a lot of additional work for her and that is why I wouldn't mind paying a little extra.
I do realize that her feathers will grow back after some time but I would prefer to start getting her training in asap.
I told the breeder that even if training was to difficult and clipping became an option. I had a vet that would do it for me (not very likely to happen) but I do have options and a backup plan.
I will just have to see what she says. She is a great breeder despite this, I would recommend her to anyone, so long as they don't mind clipped wings. Her birds are very well socialized and well cared for. I couldn't ask for better in that aspect.

 

[Kiwibird]

Even if you do choose to clip at some point in the future, that should be your choice at that time. I do agree she should learn how to fly as a baby, and then you can decide which one works better as she gets older. I think it's harder for them to learn the older they get, but they will never forget once they know.

From what we understand, Kiwi never fledged. We got him at 10 y/o, kept him clipped for a few years, but by the time he had the muscle built up and flight feathers grown back (at 16 y/o) he just wouldn't learn. We tried every way we could think of to get him to fly, but it ended up being more traumatizing for him than anything. There is just no concept of flight for him. He likes "flying" by flapping his wings furiously and holding onto our hand for dear life while we run him around the room, but thats probably as close as he will ever get. IF we ever got a baby, I would want them to at least know how to fly, and if clipping was appropriate for whatever reason, then we could make that choice. But for a bird to have no concept of flight whatsoever, it's really not a good thing. And while young birds can still pick it up easily enough if they are clipped as babies, what if you discover you want to keep her clipped for whatever reason, and then she just never learns? I really hope that breeder listens and Kali at least learns (and hopefully becomes a very proficient and strong flyer)