Eclectus growling and chasing kids!

[tashawithanekkie]

Duke is not okay with the kids!

I have an 11 year old son and a 9 year old daughter. They don't do anything to agitate the bird, I swear! I'm here all the time, my husband and I have talked to them and showed them how to be calm, to move slowly, to speak softly to Duke.

I'd understand if he only growled at them, or if the kids were somehow antagonizing him. But they're only walking past him! In the last couple of days he's started literally flying after them while growling. He likes to sit on the railing upstairs, and if one of the kids leaves their bedroom or passes him on the way to the bathroom he's going after them.

My daughter got a nip to the hand yesterday -- no broken skin, thankfully. He knows what he's doing with that beak, so I'm sure it was a warning.

Anyway, any advice would ba appreciated. If we can't figure this out we'll have to find a childless home for him, which isn't really what I want to do. But if it's best for him and keeps our kids from getting bad bites . . . *sigh*

 

[plumsmum2005]

Sounds like he is just being a bully. Cannot get away with the big adults so going for the smaller ones. Ask the kids to call you/text you if they have phones when this happens as no noisy reward given to him and you just come quietly and take him back to his cage.

You could possibly say its hormones but at the end of the day it's unwanted behaviour so treat as such.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

thanks plumsmom! they don't have phones yet but i'll be able to hear duke growling. i'll have to remind the kids not to react loudly, just do what they're doing until i can get there

 

[Flboy]

Remember, this is quickly becoming the norm! You really need to break the cycle, because it will get worse!

 

[plumsmum2005]

In the first instance I think I would hover nearby and wait unseen for it to happen and then when it does appear and basically ensure Duke knows you are displeased, "knock it off".

Next step say nothing to him and return to cage, no fuss, no bother.

 

[chris-md]

so he is literally flying at people to attack? If that's the case, CLIP THE WINGS. That's a contentious subject all around, but there should generally agreement that safety comes first.

Once the wings are clipped, you can begin working on behavior modification to stop attacking.

 

[itzjbean]

In the last couple of days he's started literally flying after them while growling. He likes to sit on the railing upstairs, and if one of the kids leaves their bedroom or passes him on the way to the bathroom he's going after them.

It's not fair for your kids to be attacked in their own house just for walking by. You need to CLIP his wings immediately so he isn't flying and attacking them, or keep him on a harness and attached somewhere he can't take off after them. It's not safe for the kids and this will give you more control over the flying attacks. Get him a wing clip, and the flying attacks should stop. I read of a similar situation with a cockatoo dive-bombing family members and it was suggested by experienced members to do the same - wing clip! It's a controversial topic but you can't have a bird dive-bombing and attacking people...

 

[plumsmum2005]

Plum was a little sh$t for a while, ie a flying bandsaw, I didn't cut his arms down though!

Last resort not first please!

There is every chance that he has got a bit too big for his boots and cutting him down to size ie reassert yourself as flock leader will do the trick.

 

[chris-md]

In the first instance I think I would hover nearby and wait unseen for it to happen and then when it does appear and basically ensure Duke knows you are displeased, "knock it off".

Calmly and respectfully, here's why I disagree with your clipping sentiment. Per your post here, we are waiting for children to be bitten as part of a training regimen. I personally cannot condone that.

That said, some bad behavior is temporary, as plums was with you. Thing is you don't always know, unless it's hormones. If it were just the OP, no kids, I'd lean more towards your sentiment, so long as the OP sill feels safe. But there are children involved, and are the targets of aggression. If the OP fears for their safety, this MUST be addressed first and foremost.

OP, like was stated, clipping is a controversial issue for many people and deeply personal. You have to examine your own beliefs and make the decision that is right for you. We support you in whatever decision you make.

I personally don't like clipping, especially for species as sensitive as ekkies. However, If the birds present an immediate flying danger, it is my deeply held belief that clipping is wholly justified to address the more immediate concern. Many may disagree, as plumsmum so eloquently expresses. This is definitely a topic reasonable people can disagree on.

Unless it hormones. Those are very temporary and will pass after a week. I had to keep my boy locked up for 3-4 days once to keep him from injuring me. No clipping necessary and the danger passed quickly.

 

[plumsmum2005]

I have taken the chasing to mean that he chased but didnt follow through with the actual bite more of a clear off this is my territory and you cannot pass by!.

The bites or nips need action taking before it progresses any further, but clipping just yet is premature.

Thus my suggestion of Tasha standing by and watching Duke to instantly be able to do what was necessary to assert her authority as the flock leader.

If our birds were in their wild environment and misbehaving they would get reprimanded by the flock elders and basically told to knock it off.

 

[Anansi]

I'd go with the timeouts suggested by Plumsmum, first. I especially like the idea of hiding out of plain sight. Only difference is I'd put him on timeout on the first incident, as that's a definite "lockup" offense. Consistently. Every single time. Once he makes the association, you'll be able to relax. The more he enjoys out time, the more effective this tactic will be. They're extremely smart, so he'll get it. It's just a matter of understanding vs stubbornness.

Make the timeouts around 10 minutes. Tell him "No" in a firm but steady voice. And I personally also adopt a different walk when my birds have to go on timeout, now. Just to differentiate between going to the cage for a timeout and going just because it's time to go in. The timeout walk is more brusque and direct, as opposed to the meandering and leisurely stroll I usually take when I'm walking with them.

I know some worry about giving the cage a negative association in the bird's mind, but this is only a problem if the cage becomes ONLY about timeouts. I circumvent this by making the cage the place where they get their primary meals. So a strong association is made between going to the cage and eating. Doesn't get much more positive than that for an ekkie. Lol!

This stuff works when done consistently. My birds rarely go on timeouts now, because they have come to understand what they shouldn't be doing. And none have ever developed an aversion to the cage, as they understand the difference between a timeout and when it's just time to go home for a bit.

Another thing you can try is to build a positive association in Duke's mind between the kids and tasty treats. Let them do all the fun stuff. Offering the best treats (through the safety of the bars until the nippiness is under control, of course) is a great way for them to build a relationship with him. Lots of talking to him as well.

And in the meantime, while training him, the kids can walk about with a towel in hand when passing his hangout spot. With the towel wrapped around the forearm, his bites can be effectively warded without damage to either child or bird. A temporary measure, of course, but at 11 and 9 I think it's doable... depending on your children's individual temperaments, that is.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

Yes, he is literally flying after them while growling. I'm not keen on clipping, so I'll keep it in mind for a last resort but I'm hoping it won't come to that.

I worked with my son and Duke yesterday, having the boy walk around. When Duke showed signs of aggression like growling, I put myself between them and used a loud, firm voice to say 'no!' and 'be nice!' I got some thoughtful stares from Duke for it, like he was thinking it out. I suppose we'll see how it goes when the kids get home from school.

I will definitely go with time-outs while this continues, and work with them all to get Duke to understand that the kids can be near 'his' rail upstairs. I like the towel idea and the treat idea. Duke eats in the cage too, so it's not just the timeout place. He's pretty sensitive to feelings, so a brusque walk will most likely let him know he's in trouble.

I really appreciate all the replies! I can tell you all take the matter seriously, and that helps me see how seriously I should take it too. Also, after being on parenting boards and watching those fights, it's so great to see people here respectfully disagreeing.

 

[LordTriggs]

yes it's definitely something we all want to fix before it becomes ingrained or gets worse. Nobody wants your children to be scared of him as that's not something that can sustain.

I think a bit of big brother bullying from the Duke. Maybe removal from "his" railing when he begins to growl followed by a good shun for a moment should let him know it's not the thing to be done, although obviously it's not always possible to be around when he's there. Although go for your first plan first, he's a very smart parrot so picks up on stuff quickly and has quickly learnt a growl gets the small humans to leave his spot

Do let us know how things go with him

 

[plumsmum2005]

Don't forget that just placing him on the floor is another option, 'you are the lowest in this flock!' and a firm toned "behave" can also work (sorry tittering now as always makes me think of the film Nanny McPhee).

 

[itzjbean]

Don't forget that just placing him on the floor is another option, 'you are the lowest in this flock!' and a firm toned "behave" can also work (sorry tittering now as always makes me think of the film Nanny McPhee).

This sounds like a great idea. I have also heard of placing birds in a 'time'out' cage that is basically a kennel but sits on the ground. Aggressive birds don't seem to like being on the ground but prefer being up as high as they can be. Take the height away from them and then maybe he'll realize he doesn't want to be down on the ground!

 

[jhsatx]

We were able to reduce those unwanted behaviors with time outs and having the non favorite humans offering the treats. So far so good, clipping is last resort here too.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

Thanks for suggestions and commiseration and stuff!

Things have improved some. I spent some time hiding and having the 11 year old walk past while Duke was on the rail upstairs, jumping out and giving a loud, firm "NO!" when he growled. That seemed to help a bit. He knows it's not acceptable, at least.

With more observation I've noticed it's most likely to happen when the kids go upstairs *behind* him. They were startling him, going up quickly when he wasn't looking. So I asked the kids to get Duke's attention and tell him what they're about to do. This seems to help as well. He hasn't chased them while growling except for when they forget to get his attention and let him know they're going up.

I get it -- the kids are kind of loud and unpredictable, from Duke's point of view. So we're working on both sides of the equation. It's not perfect -- if they suddenly open their bedroom doors, for example, we still get growls. But it's progress.

 

[Anansi]

I love how you're approaching this. Perfection. You're not only doing the necessary course corrections for Duke, but you're also taking a look at your own side of the interactive coin and making adjustments there as well. You're looking at it as a two-way street, and that's why you are going to succeed in this.

Congrats on the progress. Well earned.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

I love how you're approaching this. Perfection. You're not only doing the necessary course corrections for Duke, but you're also taking a look at your own side of the interactive coin and making adjustments there as well. You're looking at it as a two-way street, and that's why you are going to succeed in this.

Congrats on the progress. Well earned.

*blushing* thank you! It means a lot coming from such a wise parront as yourself.

 

[LordTriggs]

good to hear it's getting better

yes definitely showing Duke the respect in this is good and straight away you found out what it is, a sudden jump making him grumpy

those small humans are definitely fast moving and can be noisy when they want!