Do they really need general anaesthetic for blood test?

[Aspie_Aviphile]

Both exotics vets* I see say that if the medicine I've got for his liver and pain relief doesn't get rid of the symptoms after another week they want to do blood tests, but general anaesthetic would be used for that. I thought I've seen blood taken from parrots his size while they were awake. Is that risk really necessary or if I search for other exotics vets might they do it awake?

*Avian specialist certifications for vets are non-existent in the UK

 

[SailBoat]

Yes, define the Liver as probable health problem can be completed without a Blood Screen. But, IMHO, I would have wanted the Blood Screen prior to being provided medication.

An Avian Professional can commonly obtain a Blood Sample without a general anesthetic. Their choice of whether to draw that Blood in front of you can vary depending of their experience with keep the Bird still during drawing the Blood.

Our Avian Professional has always draw Blood with me there and not used a general anesthetic.

The danger of Avian clients and the use of a general anesthetic is that they react so differently individual to individual and the difference can be just a tiny amount more or less. For me, I prefer to limit the use of a general anesthetic

 

[Laurasea]

Parrots have a rapid metabolism and rapid heart rate, making anesthesia tricky with them. They go from light anesthesia to deep and ( dead) in the blink of an eye. It's why I would not do it for blood work. And I would only allow if they had the intubation tubs for birds available, and proper monitoring equipment....

What kind of parrot is this ?

The wing is a place you can take blood on a medium to large bird, but it a very fragile vein so it always bruises very large, and something has to bandaged.

 

[GaleriaGila]

All I can contribute is this. My wonderful avian vet does blood tests every three months to keep tabs on the Rickeybird's Enalapril dosage... no anesthetic.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Do these references help at all?

UK avian vets
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...hUKEwiji9GUgODmAhUPUa0KHQNmDTYQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

My Avian Vet also doesn't use anaethstetic to draw blood and does it with me being there. Awhile ago Amy had to be put under to have a cyst removed from above his noses..it scared me because it took so long before he came out of it.


jim

 

[noodles123]

I have never had to put mine under in any way to take blood--- that having been said, I did once go to a vet where I had to sign a disclaimer regarding potential death from fright/heart issues--but that was for any new patient who went there for any reason (if bird).

 

[Aspie_Aviphile]

What kind of parrot is this ?

The wing is a place you can take blood on a medium to large bird, but it a very fragile vein so it always bruises very large, and something has to bandaged.

Indian ringneck, post-pubescent male no more than 3 years old. 110 grams when weighed 3 weeks ago, slightly too much fat felt around keel bone 2 weeks ago. Symptoms are feather discolouration and wet, discoloured green droppings with less white than usual, often no white at all. Fluffing up and sitting still periodically. Also dealing with recurrent bleeding from one of the two toes on each foot that had the outer nail seemingly ripped off after he followed me out of a self-closing door in our new home 2 weeks ago (lesson learned by me, not by him who is still landing on that same door like nothing happened :25

Is he probably big enough to have it taken from the wing? Does it hurt them a lot or would they use topical pain relief?

 

[Terry57]

When my conure was sick last year, we were unable to see my vet so I took him to a different one who wanted to put him under to draw blood. I wasn't comfortable with that so they did a nail clip blood draw, which was not even close to being accurate. We did take him to his own vet when she was in again, and she did a blood draw from his neck and he was fine, he didn't act like it phased him at all and it was super quick.

 

[Aspie_Aviphile]

Do these references help at all?

UK avian vets
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...hUKEwiji9GUgODmAhUPUa0KHQNmDTYQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803

The two vets he's registered with are on that list, but they don't have qualifications specific to birds, just exotics qualifications. I've been told that's as close to a certified avian specialist as you're going to get as even the vets practice in the country that exclusively serves birds, has only vets who've take the same exotics certificates as all the others and simply specialise in their practice, not in qualifications

I don't mention it because I have any reason to think the vets I see are necessarily inferior with birds compared to certified avian specialists, they might have done lots of private study on avian medicine, but just to explain why I have to call them exotics vets and not avian vets as the term 'avian vet' suggests a set of certificates to people in some countries. Here we just mean any vet who is trained in 'exotics' (which includes native animals like green finches for some reason?) and is willing to do more than basic emergency treatment of birds like rehydration without first giving the "I might kill your bird" disclaimer.

 

[Laurasea]

The jugular is the typical blood draw spot. Mine are done awake. But the wing can be used, but is a very fragile vein and even gentle techniques leave abig hematoma, the leg can also sometimes be used to take blood.

A caution, liver disease, can cause clotting problems....if he keeps bleeding from his toes that worries me that he isn't clotting good....
Blood work can be valuable. But it doesn't have to be done, if they think they know what's going on, and can try treatments..

Blood work is a tool, and you and your vet have to decide if the bennifit out way the risks. Anesthesia is an added risk. In animals like dogs and cats it's easy to use a little anesthesia to relax them, or if they agressive. But it's is not the same with birds, birds are very different.

In the states the norm at an avain specialist is to wrap them in a towel, hold their head and take blood from jugular, all done in front of you. There is still small risk of laceration of the jugular and bleeding out. We had this happen to a GCC not long ago on the forum. But the vet was not an avain specialist ( i think)

 

[Scott]

I have never submitted a bird for anesthesia for the sole purpose of blood draws over nearly 35 years. While Sevoflurane and Isoflurane gasses administered by a skilled certified avian vet are considered reasonably "safe," there is always risk. Primarily due to underlying illnesses not evident as parrots are masters of disguise.

 

[bug_n_flock]

I "fired" a vet over this not long ago. Kept going to the practice, but not that vet. He wanted to sedate Alex to draw blood. At the time Alex was only 16, but that still is not a young cockatiel. That was about a year and a half ago. I absolutely refused. I cancelled the appointment(about a day after making the appointment. I thought long and hard about it and decided I was not ok with sedating a 16 year old bird just for a blood draw. They claimed it was standard practice, but another vet at their practice had drawn blood from Crayon, a senior Amazon I had until ahe passed, sans sedation and right in front of me) and everything, the vet himself called me back a day or so later and said he was willing to try without the gas, but at that point I had already lost faith in him and decided to go to another vet.

 

[noodles123]

What OP is saying is very strange to me-- I have heard of some birds needing a sedative of sorts for an x-ray, but never just for blood-work. I would freak out if they told me that had to happen, as the risk of anesthesia is SO high and complicated with avian patients---there is a lot that can go wrong given the fact that this should be fairly simple blood-work... I would only put Noodles under in the event that her life was at stake and she needed a surgery or something...or maybe if a wing/bone was so damaged that she would have to have it corrected and the only way to do so would be to put her out.

I wouldn't trust this vet---just my opinion.

 

[SailBoat]

I was not aware that England does not provide the Certification of Avian Studies. Especially with the number of Parrots in England. But, that is beside the point.

Here in North America such is available and as you can tell, much adored by those of us so blessed to have one or more near us. That said, there are large regions of North America that are not so blessed.

That all said, when specialists are not available, it is important to find an Avian Professional that has taken the time to study the special needs of Parrots. You need to find a Vet that you are first comfortable with and second made an effort to self-education using advance studies.

It appears that you have a Parrot that needs care. If you are comfortable with this Vet, process... If questionable, look for another.

It is important for you to understand that the major population regions of North America have opportunities that have spoiled us and our Parrots.

 

[LaManuka]

None of my guys have ever been given a general anaesthetic to draw blood, not even my tiny lorikeet who is smaller than a budgie.

You may be reluctant to try a new vet if your bird is already being treated for an existing condition, but there’s a list of avian vets in the UK on theparrotsocietyuk.org which may give you an alternative.

Good luck!

 

[Aspie_Aviphile]

Today I spoke to a different exotics vet that sees birds. They said they would use general anaesthetic too, and the reason isn't the risk of moving and bleeding but the risk of death from stress. Without seeing the research that's based on, I have no idea which country's vets are correct, but it looks like that's the belief here so that's what any vet is going to do. Hopefully he will keep getting better and he won't need any tests.

 

[Rosy71]

I have never submitted a bird for anesthesia for the sole purpose of blood draws over nearly 35 years. While Sevoflurane and Isoflurane gasses administered by a skilled certified avian vet are considered reasonably "safe," there is always risk. Primarily due to underlying illnesses not evident as parrots are masters of disguise.

Hello Scott .
I know this post is old … wanted to ask you about the anestesia. I have a 4 month old Quaker named Cosmo and I went to avian vet for a first visit .. to check him out and make sure all is ok . He wanted to do a blood and stool test for different things and wow it was super expensive 800 usd .. but what I wanted to know is it normal for a vet to give anestesia to a 4 month old bird just for drawing blood ? No surgery.
He has been kinda quiet since that was done on Friday .. well today is day 2 .. I’m gonna see if today he doesn’t rant as usual .. yesterday (the day after ) he was pretty quiet no ranting like he does ..
is that normal ? Thanks so much!
Appreciate it

 

[Rozalka]

As you noted - it's an old thread. Scott left the forum and I have a feeling that he won't return (I was talking with him after his disappearance and he didn't want to talk about his fids)

 

[Rosy71]

As you noted - it's an old thread. Scott left the forum and I have a feeling that he won't return (I was talking with him after his disappearance and he didn't want to talk about his fids)

Oh ok thank you so much for letting me know ! Appreciate your help ..
I just asked him that because I saw that he was talking about it . My Quaker is just quieter since Friday I just hope he’s ok if not on Monday I will call the vet .
Thanks ! Have a great day !