Do I get another bird?

[MonicaMc]

nrm123MonicaMC
you accuse bird tricks of stealing techniques, starving their birds, false testimonials and they are not animal trainers. Well I looked up Dave Womach credentials and it quite impressive. He has toured over 20 counties, performed with celebrities like David Copperfield, received numerous awards and gives to charities. Have you?

I have watch some of their videos and they have happy, Healthy and well socialised birds.

Whether you paid for or not, and are taught techniques and you decide to rename then that's not stealing.

So would you buy BirdTrick's products and use them as a trainer because Dave Womach has "toured over 20 counties, performed with celebrities like David Copperfield, received numerous awards and gives to charities"?



Compared to Barbara Heidenreich's Profile..... she started animal training at a zoo, has been a speaker on 6 different continents, is a past president of the International Association of Avian Trainers and Educators, plus served on the board of directors and does consultations with zoos, nature centers, and other animal related facilities.

https://www.blogger.com/profile/09023471815028634939
Barbara Heidenreich | Good Bird Inc Austin

Her credentials include a Bachelors of Science in Zoology from the University of California at Davis, being a member of the AFA, a charter member of The Animal Behavior Management Association, plus IAATE. In 2003 and 2009 she received Behavior of the Year Award and in 2004 received the High Flyer Award.




Lara Joseph's biography may not look as nice, but she has attended numerous workshops, lectures and seminars by Barbara Heidenreich, Susan Friedman and Steve Martin. She has taken both of Susan Friedman's courses and has gone to the workshops of Steve Martin's at Natural Encounters. Lara has even visited Chris Shank of Cockatoo Downs, learning about flight training. Lara is the director of training and enrichment at Natures Nursery and trains their birds of prey and other birds, too.

Lara is also a member of IAATE and sits on two committees, is an active member of The Animal Behavior Management Alliance, a dedicated member of The World Parrot Trust and a supporter of The Indonesian Parrot Project and AFA.

Biography | Lara Joseph




Do you think a magician is a good animal trainer because he's performed with David Copperfield, toured various countries, received numerous awards and gives to Charities? To me, that just makes him look like a good person, but tells me nothing about his training background.

 

[nrm123]

In other news...I was bitten twice in 5 mins today. Tried putting my hand on the edge of the cage as like an extension. Lured the bird closer and closer but my hand was nicer. Oh well will try again tomorrow

 

[Dinosrawr]

Persistence is key

 

[MonicaMc]

In other news...I was bitten twice in 5 mins today. Tried putting my hand on the edge of the cage as like an extension. Lured the bird closer and closer but my hand was nicer. Oh well will try again tomorrow

Keep trying!


If you can, try to figure out when he'll bite, then remove your hand and treat before he bites. This is all new to him and he probably doesn't quite understand what to think of it, yet!


It's a learning experience for you both!

 

[nrm123]

In other news...I was bitten twice in 5 mins today. Tried putting my hand on the edge of the cage as like an extension. Lured the bird closer and closer but my hand was nicer. Oh well will try again tomorrow

Keep trying!


If you can, try to figure out when he'll bite, then remove your hand and treat before he bites. This is all new to him and he probably doesn't quite understand what to think of it, yet!


It's a learning experience for you both!

It is indeed! I think I'm more confused than the bird, some places say don't pull your hand away because that's what the bird wants and others say move you hand before the bird bites...I prefer the later lol

 

[MonicaMc]

If you were having to train a macaw or a cockatoo that could potentially remove a digit, would you really want to leave your hand there and allow the bird to mangle your flesh?

I sure as heck wouldn't! And although yes, your smaller bird can't do as much damage, why is it ok to "ignore" the bite of a smaller parrot but maybe not a larger parrot? Makes no sense to me. (for any owner who keeps large parrots and "ignores" their bites, I wonder if they are gluttons for punishment??? :11: )


Birds bite as a form of communicate *most often*. They can also bite through play and getting too rough. Them biting us is most often because we can't read their signals to back off and give them some space so they're going to bite.



Ignoring the bite may unintentionally teach them to "bite with no warning" because all they learn is that you aren't paying attention to them, so there's no point in them telling you that they are going to bite, they might as well just bite.


If you can avoid the bite while training, and learn to back off when needed, you may end up teaching the bird that they don't have to bite to get their point across, you'll learn to respect them and give them space. Respect should go both ways!



Me personally, I'd rather teach a bird that they don't have to bite in order to communicate with me rather than teaching them that they must bite, and they must bite harder, quicker, or really rip into my skin to get their point across.

 

[Parro]

It doesn't really need to be necessary through playtimes etc..
They bite anytime regardless of mood (except if they're sleepy)
If they can back off they would do it instead of biting, but if they reach a dead-end they have no choice but to bite..
Just give him space or else youll get bitten more and more.


Ignoring the bite will just lead to a whole wrapped up hand. But just don't overreact when your bitten otherwise it'll teach the bird the only way to get you away is to bite.

 

[nrm123]

Just had a nice sit with sherbet today. He flew over to the sofa where we were sitting and landed on my knee sat there for about 20mins. We got him a new toy today, a dog toy of all sorts a long interweaved rope for him to chew so each time he went to bite a hole through my trousers I gave him this to chew. He then sat on the toy for over 35 mins next to us chewing away, he noticed my fingers holding it a few times but each time he went for a bite I rotated it so he lost balance, by the end he just looked away.

Showing all the signs of wanting to interact with us just doesn't want to be handled. He wouldn't of even done that a month ago though so making little steps.

 

[Ezrielle]

Kinda sounds like the trouble I am having with my bird. But unfortunately my bird is only aggressive and standoffish to me, and perfectly tame with children.
I hope the tips you got worm. I may try a few myself.

 

[veimar]

Okay, I throw in my penny… I just got a young lovie who was not hand tame - she was horrified of my hands. When I put my hand in her cage she would run around it and squeak. I still picked her up and put on my shoulder every time and she LOVED shoulder rides (apparently her previous owner didn't have enough the for that). After a week she probably realized that the hand meant treats and shoulder and started stepping up, but jumped back as I tried to take her out of cage. It took another week for her to trust me enough to take out of the cage. Now she is fine with that, but still hates my hand when I try to take her off the shoulder. We are working on that… Thanks God she doesn't bite at all, sweetheart!
What I noticed in your video - you kinda stick your whole hand in his face and it might scare him. What about trying just one finger on the bottom (so he is higher than it) and VERY-VERY SLOW? That's how I train Coco to get down from my shoulder right now. I approach her very slowly with one finger until she feels comfortable it touching her feet and finally steps on it. But I don't really use any treats with that - I just talk to her. LOL

 

[nrm123]

1 finger almost certainly results in a lunge and latches onto the whole finger. If I use my hand and he does bite it is usually only skin and can't get a hold of bone aswell lol

 

[nrm123]

Two questions unrelated to training.

1. My apartment gets warm this time of year, (digital thermo says 23c in evenings but not sure how accurate) being on the ground floor I don't want to leave the lounge window open where the bird sleeps and we need to cover cage because he gets up really early otherwise. I try to cover just the front of the cage leaving the back open for air. Will this be ok? (I know lovebirds originated in hot countries just making sure)

2. When do baby lovies have their first molt? Mine is 8months old and last month there were constantly loads of little puffy feathers in cage but did not notice anything by looking at the bird.

 

[Lovie]

It gets much hotter where I live, and my bird is fine. It should be completely fine. I even cover the cage completely at night, and it never overheats.

Birds usually begin their first molt when they are four months of age or so. The little fluffy feathers should be fine. These come off regularly. Birds molt about once a year, and you'll know because..
1. Its appetite increases.
2. It will have "pin feathers," sensitive new feathers covered in a keratin sheath. They will be painful to your bird when they are first coming in.

 

[MonicaMc]

Right now, my house is without AC as the person who was to unweather our swamp cooler got into a car accident a couple weeks back and has been unreliable about showing up. (sounds like we're inconsiderate, but in reality he's always been that way - he's supposed to show up with someone else, and I'd really rather him not be climbing onto the house anyway!)

Meanwhile, the temps have gotten into the high 80's to the low 90's (or 26 C to 32 C and above) and all of us are suffering without the AC! To be honest, I think the birds are handling it better than the humans, cats and dog!

When I can, I do provide ice in their water so they'll have something cold and refreshing! And some also appreciate extra bathes!



It's not the first time that most of them have dealt with warmer temps, either. I usually leave their window open 24/7 (it does have a screen on it) so that there is some air flow. Being the desert, come midnight after a hot day it can still be high 70's or 80's. It may not cool off until a few hours before sunrise, then become too hot as early as 9-11am.



It's up to you if you want to cover the cage or not and how you go about doing it. I don't cover cages, so my birds go to sleep with the sun and wake with the sun!


Lovie is right, they can start their first molt as early as 4 months old, or as late as 12 months old, if not older.

 

[nrm123]

Ok new question...is there an easier way to get a bird into a new cage that won't let you handle them lol. We bought a new bigger cage but he won't come out. I've removed food dish and some perches but he won't come out lol.

 

[nrm123]

He's in!

 

[GW.Joe]

nrm 123
I have had great success with the following method to bond and build trust. It seems that your bird has a hand hatred/trust issues. I would use a T-perch to handle him until you have addressed the hand hatred/trust issues.
This how I bonded and built trust with an aviary bred bird and have used it on other birds.
I obtained a aviary bred IRN a few years ago who we named Bluey. When people approached Bluey he would thrash around the cage in fear.
So I needed some tools to address this problem 1 was a clicker 2 was training treats 3 was T-perch.

First I got a clicker.
Clickers are the best for training. Do some research. B F Skinner is a good start. Clicks won't confuse the bird. Where has words can. Without realising, words can be changed. It doesn't seem much, but it is to a bird. Has an example you might be saying "good boy". Then you say "that's a good boy" or your'e a good bird. Clickers are a bridge to identified wanted behaviour between you and your bird.

SecondBy putting five different foods on a plate and watch which one Bluey ate first I worked out what Bluey favorite food. This became Bluey's training treat and I removed this food from Bluey diet. It was sunflower seeds.

These are the procedures I used to calm and interact with him.
Bluey was in a cage in the lounge room. With the clicker in my hand, I entered the lounge room and went to the furthest point away from the cage. Then I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear.
When your bird becomes small and "skinny," and the bird's crop often looks sucked in, and all the feathers lie flat on the body. It usually means the bird is scared.

I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed.
Relaxed feathers and wings,standing on one foot, preening and /or grinding his upper and lower mandible together to produce a scratchy or "zippy" noise. This bird is probably content and relaxed. The bird might not display all these signs but relaxed feathers and wings,standing on one foot are a sure sign.
When Bluey relaxed, I click the clicker and took 3 slow steps back waited 20 to 30 seconds. Then, again I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear. But this time I got a bit closer to the cage. Then I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed.

When Bluey relaxed I click the clicker and took 3 slow steps back waited 20 to 30 seconds. I repeated this procedure and with each approach, I would get a bit closer to the cage until I was standing next to the cage and Bluey was relaxed. When this was achieved I would leave the room for 20 to 30 minutes. Then I would repeat this procedure for 5 to 7 times that day. By the end of the day you should be able to slowly walk up to the cage and the bird should stay relaxed.

I then used a spray of millet first has it was a larger food treat and it allowed Bluey to get use to my hand. Once Bluey became use to my hand I started to reduce the size of the millet until I could use sunflower seeds.
Note: This is important and that is, not to force the bird to do something it doesn't want to do. Let it approach the millet.

Once I was able to walk up to the cage without Bluey being scared, I then started to train Bluey to come out of the cage.
the first stage is with the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other. I would offer the millet to Bluey through the cage where the perch is attached. If he didn't take a bite of the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove the millet from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds. Then I would re-offer the millet. When Bluey took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey sight. When Bluey finished eating the millet. I repeated the procedure and did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this 3 more times.

Note: By removing the Millet from the Bird's sight you encourage the "what have I just missed out on. was that food?. Were did it go?". Then when you re-offer the millet. the bird thinks " I'm not going to miss out again".

The next stage. With the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other. Open the cage door and offer the millet at the entrance of the cage.
note: Don't put your hand inside the cage has the bird could see this has invasion of their territory. If Bluey didn't approach the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove it from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds.Then re-offer the millet. When the Bluey came to the cage entrance and took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey sight. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this 3 more times.

The next stage is to place a T-perch just outside the cage. When Bluey flew to the T-perch and took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but I kept it in Bluey sight. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this daily. You can use the T-perch to return the Bird to it's cage. I found that a T-perch is better then a piece of dowel. The bird can run down a piece of dowel and bite the hand. But with the T-perch the bird can run from end to end but the hand is out of reach.

This is more towards interacting with your bird to build trust/bonding. Once you have establish a bond of trust with your bird you can start to train basic tricks. Then advance to more tricks if you desire.

Remember food is a great motivator.

GREAT POST !! Thanks