Do I get another bird?

[nrm123]

I bought a single hand reared lovebird in the intention of bounding with it to make humans it's 'flock'. In the pet store it had been caged with another hand reared and not handled losing its tame ness. After several months of attempted training I seem to be getting no where, never been able to handle the bird, I don't want to force it so I've left it be trying again most days I'm free.
The bird will fly to my head and happily sit on it 'eating my hair' but if I put my hand on head as it's flying to me it will fly the other way. I've been using the power pause technique recently and noticed a big change in the lunging but still won't let me touch or step up.

I am thinking of buying a new cage but was also considering buying another bird for a friend. Now here's my issue, the bird often lunges at its toys and can be aggressive to it, I haven't got the room where I live to house 2 birds separately permanently. Will the bird likely be aggressive to another bird or will the natural instinct to be in a flock take over?

 

[Dinosrawr]

To me this sounds more like an issue of not having enough time to sit down and patiently train your little lovie to become used to being around you. The less you handle it, the less tame it becomes. And lovebirds are known to be very, very aggressive from what I've seen on the forums, so I'm not sure I would recommend another bird.

You'll never know how your bird will react to a new bird until it happens. Even if you expose it to other potential bird friends, there's a possibility the one you buy will be the one yours doesn't like. Some bird personalities click, some don't. If you buy another bird, I highly recommend it's because you want it, because there's a possibility that they may just absolutely detest each other.

Before buying another bird, I would take some time to review how you can build a stronger bond with your bird. It may take weeks, months, or even years, but it is possible. Your bird may never be hands on, but will likely still love being around you. If you feel that you'd rather let it be more "wild", then I would recommend an aviary for it. But those are just my two cents!

You can also use the search function and look at other posts about this, as it has been discussed very, very often.

 

[nrm123]

To me this sounds more like an issue of not having enough time to sit down and patiently train your little lovie to become used to being around you. The less you handle it, the less tame it becomes. And lovebirds are known to be very, very aggressive from what I've seen on the forums, so I'm not sure I would recommend another bird.

You'll never know how your bird will react to a new bird until it happens. Even if you expose it to other potential bird friends, there's a possibility the one you buy will be the one yours doesn't like. Some bird personalities click, some don't. If you buy another bird, I highly recommend it's because you want it, because there's a possibility that they may just absolutely detest each other.

Before buying another bird, I would take some time to review how you can build a stronger bond with your bird. It may take weeks, months, or even years, but it is possible. Your bird may never be hands on, but will likely still love being around you. If you feel that you'd rather let it be more "wild", then I would recommend an aviary for it. But those are just my two cents!

You can also use the search function and look at other posts about this, as it has been discussed very, very often.

There's good weeks and bad weeks, in no way I want to just get another one to stop interacting with it. I have had some progress with him being around me without biting, when I leave the room with his cage open he oftens flies to the room I'm in as if he wants to be with me, he just doesn't let my hands near.

 

[Dinosrawr]

Sounds like it loves you! Just probably hasn't realized yet that hands mean cuddles and play time. Maybe then I would start target training and eventually train your bird to come touch your hands to realize they aren't dangerous, and to do slow movement training with it.

Avery - and most birds in general - was terrified of my hands, especially if I came from behind too fast. I did clicker training with her and every time I brought my hand close, I'd click and give her a treat for not running away. Eventually it go to the point where I could bring my hand behind and "cup" her without her running, and now if I cup my hand she'll snuggle into it. I also acclimatized her to touch all over the body and I did my best, and still do, to make every interactions she has with my hands positive. If things go bad, we do a trick she knows and she gets a treat and some time to herself.

Hopefully that helps you give up an idea on how to work with it!

 

[nrm123]

Sounds like it loves you! Just probably hasn't realized yet that hands mean cuddles and play time. Maybe then I would start target training and eventually train your bird to come touch your hands to realize they aren't dangerous, and to do slow movement training with it.

Avery - and most birds in general - was terrified of my hands, especially if I came from behind too fast. I did clicker training with her and every time I brought my hand close, I'd click and give her a treat for not running away. Eventually it go to the point where I could bring my hand behind and "cup" her without her running, and now if I cup my hand she'll snuggle into it. I also acclimatized her to touch all over the body and I did my best, and still do, to make every interactions she has with my hands positive. If things go bad, we do a trick she knows and she gets a treat and some time to herself.

Hopefully that helps you give up an idea on how to work with it!

I've tried target training, got to the point of reaching over hand but always resulted in hands and chewier than the touch object. With the power pause I have been able to get to biting distance with success so far started about a week ago. I've stayed at this distance but held for longer periods and touch would usually ends in bird carrying on with something else so will continue and see if I can get closer.

 

[MonicaMc]

There are better trainers out there than Bird Tricks.... Such as Barbara Heidenreich, Lara Joseph, Susan Friedman, Melinda Johnson.....


Can you perhaps show us a video of how you are trying to teach step up?

 

[lucy1]

Hi nrm123

While there may be "better" trainers out there (a personal opinion, don't take it as a given fact), and stick training is a possible, if it hasn't been working for you then look elsewhere, as you have... If the power pause is working for you and your fid, then go for it

The short answer to your original question has to be a big fat no Birds are unpredictable in their friendships and your bird may or may not accept a new companion. Your original post states you do not have space to house 2 birds separately, therefore a second bird is a definite no. If 2 birds do not really get on there is a likelihood (almost certainty) one will end up killing the other if forced to share the same space. I got a companion for my amazon several years ago- they quite liked some shared preen time together but would've undoubtably killed one another if forced to share a cage. My current amazons share a cage and are inseparable- no reasoning with them...

Try timing the time it takes to feed, clean and interact with your current bird. You'll be amazed how short a time it actually is. Set a timer and double it (time it would take for 2 birds who don't bond) and spend that time with your current bird using whatever method seems to be working for you both. It sounds like you're working hard to do the best for your bird- we're all here for you, keep with the questions and we'll all throw our good intentioned opinions at you until you find one that works x

 

[KodaKeet]

It took me almost a complete year to get my parakeet to step up onto my finger. My mom got her to step up the first night she was home but that was because Koda was cornered. Anyway, I first started by placing her food in my hand and setting my hand in her cage. After half an hour she wandered over and began eating. We did this several times a day for a few weeks before moving on.
The next step I did was to click a dog clicker then give her some millet spray. Then I pressed my finger to her feet and said "Step up" when she did I clicked the clicker and gave her a treat.
When it was time to move on from that I made a blanket fort. Yes, a blanket fort. It was the perfect size space to let her out in. I put her cage under the fort and opened the top. She flew out and wandered around and as she did I clicked and treated. Eventually she got so that she would sit on my arm and I would click and treat.
I can now pick her up and carry her around my room. She often sits on my shoulder when I am on the computer.
That may or may not help you but I thought I would tell you how I hand-tamed my bird, because it could help you, maybe.

 

[MonicaMc]

The "power pause" technique that Bird Tricks "made up" is actually known as a 'time out'. They are not animal trainers, they are sales people. Entrepreneurs.

Gode kilder? - www.papegoyehjelpen.com


I cannot, in good faith, recommend people who steal techniques from actual trainers and market it as their own, recommend starving birds in order to train them and falsify testimonials to get a sale. (granted, I have not seen their new videos, but I will not be giving them any money!)

 

[nrm123]

First I'd like to thank all of you for the replies, I have posted in other pet forums in the past about my troubles but simply got the 'you should have bought two birds, don't complain to us about your birds bad behaviour'.

I'll take a look at some of those trainers, I have only learned about the techniques I've used from YouTube. Which is why I've been stuck because the majority of the 'stop biting' have been when the owner could actually handle the bird.

At the moment I have stopped attempting to step up and concentrated on hands are ok to be around and hopefully will get to touch the bird. When I get close enough the bird always drops his head, not in an aggressive way more of a 'what you doing with that hand'. Next time I do some training I'll try recording so you can tell me the do's and donts but because the cage is usually open when I'm home there's no strict out time just when the bird feels like so will have to be ready lol.

I'll keep you updated on how the days training goes.

 

[MonicaMc]

Although I agree that birds normally do best with other birds around, getting a second bird doesn't normally solve the issues with the first bird.


There are probably more bad training videos on Youtube than there are good ones.... so it may be hard to weed out the good videos from the bad ones.



I've found that if you can get a bird comfortable enough to eat from you, it can go a long way into getting them to get over their fears of hands and people!


Living With Parrots Cage Free: Bucky and Strider - Millet Eating Fiends!



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]





[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]

 

[nrm123]

My bird will eat a handheld millet stick and has eaten from my finger tips bits of peanut and small things like that. I have tried seed in hand and he has taken a little but ended in hand being tastier lol. That was a while ago so maybe I will try again with the progress I have made this week.

 

[nrm123]

[ame=http://youtu.be/lHnc8dgOWdg]Lovebird - YouTube[/ame]

The link is showing the aggression towards the toy in cage, I've tried to remove it but every time I do he jumps to it and tries biting. Next time he's out I will. I think it is just the bell so I will take it off.

 

[nrm123]

I have just recorded a typical training session about 5 mins long, i am currently uploading it and will post it in this post when it is done. If you could suggest anything to do after viewing it. thanks

[ame="http://youtu.be/Z4RVhO3ryY4"]http://youtu.be/Z4RVhO3ryY4[/ame]

 

[MonicaMc]

Birds need a way to get rid of pent up energy. Instead of removing the toy, give him more toys! He needs toys that make noise, toys that he can chew up, and foraging toys.


The training session looks good. What about instead of you going to him, why not encourage him to come to you?


Take the cage off of the stand and put it on a table. While he's on top of the cage, lay your hand down flat on top of the cage, or put your hand against the front of the cage. Then, using millet, lure him over to your hand.

Give him the millet, let him take a bit, then move the millet closer to your other hand. Allow him to walk over to take a bite. If he does, move the millet a little closer to your hand. Allow him to take another bite. Repeat.

If he backs off away from you, then you may need to start over, but that's ok! The main idea is to get him comfortable walking towards you, rather than you going towards him. If he doesn't touch your hand within the first few days, that's ok, too! Keep at it! The more comfortable he gets coming towards you, the more willing he'll be to actually touch you. He doesn't have to physically step up!


Kind of break it into steps like this....

1. Reward bird for looking at you.
2. Reward your bird for moving his head towards you.
3. Reward your bird for taking a step towards you.
4. Reward your bird for taking another step towards you.
5. If he doesn't run away, keep rewarding him for remaining where he's at. (if he runs/backs off, you may need to start over again)
6. Reward your bird for taking a couple more steps closer.
7. Encourage him to come closer yet again and reward him.
8. Reward your bird for touching you with his toe(s).
9. Reward your bird for putting a foot on you.
10. *JACKPOT REWARD* Give your bird lots of goodies for putting both feet on you!

 

[nrm123]

If he bites do I start over, time out or what?

Later on this afternoon he flew over to the sofa where I was siting landed on a pillow and sat there for over 20 mins right next to me( he did chew a small hole in the fabric but I wobbled it slightly so he lost balance to associate biting with that, same goes for when he chews my iPad cover). He then flew onto the iPad when I was using it for another 10 mins. Then about an hour later he flew back to us and mistimed his landing and ended up on my arm. He didn't realize at first so I tried to make him notice that he was on me and I wasn't a threat...he realized and nibbled my arm so I rotated and he flew away.

 

[MonicaMc]

If he bites, remove your hand and remove the treats. Wait a few seconds or so and see if he has any interest in continuing to train or not. If he shows no interest in continuing, then come back and try again in 5, 15 or so minutes!


As far as the chewing, try to have some foot toys on hand to give to him so he'll have *something* to chew on that is ok to chew on! You don't want to discourage chewing on objects (per-say), but rather *encourage* appropriate chewing!

 

[4dugnlee]

I asked this same (almost) question a couple weeks ago..lol. My BFA is not tame and I've only had her a little over a month. I've been working with her and she's doing better but still has a long way to go! She's sweet but does NOT want to be touched. I now can touch her feet and her beak and I've touched her head a couple times (from the outside of the cage). I found a sun Conure, which is what I've always wanted so there was the question. Get the sun, or don't. I ended up getting the sun because I've always wanted one. However, speaking from my experience, there is absolutely NO WAY I could put them together in one cage. Maybe someday, maybe not. I won't even let them out of their cages at the same time. For the most part there isn't really any aggression, but then once in while there is and I won't take a chance. I love them both. Chico (SC) is as sweet as he can be and is with me ALOT! But when it's Sassy's (BFA) turn to be out, he goes back in his cage. So, if you want a second bird then you should get it, but not to put in the same cage together..separate cages is a must. And don't count on them getting along...maybe they will, maybe they won't.

Your post makes me laugh because you sound just like me...lol. I've been watching training videos on youtube too, and that's what I always find too...birds that are already tame/handleable. And I was thinking about Birdtricks.com too, but I will definately be checking out the others listed above too.

Good luck!

 

[Dinosrawr]

Delfin, I think what Monica is trying to stress about BirdTricks is that they don't employ positive reinforcement entirely, which is what she personally believes in. I think positive reinforcement is great and we all have different levels of it. Also, to define a professional trainer is a tricky topic in itself. Professional behaviourists have a PhD and a certificate stating that they can respond to an animal's behaviour and work with it, but professional trainers don't necessarily have that. I don't think it's a good argument to start... being accusatory on either end isn't good. And there are copyright issues and patent issues to always be concerned about, but people do modify techniques to suit them to their individual bird.

Anyways, good luck nrm123 with the training! Whichever techniques you employ, all is well so long as both of you are happy and healthy. Inform us of the progress

 

[getwozzy]

Folks, please keep this discussion civil- there's no need to argue or accuse anyone of anything; everyone is entitled to their opinion, so play nice please!