Did my cockatiel have a seizure?

[texsize]

WBC = White blood cell count.

High level of white cells mean there is an infection.

 

[Laurasea]

https://www.beautyofbirds.com/aviancbc.html
That link explains the blood work, sometimes the W C can drop with a sever chronic infection as the bird can't keep up with the disease, a lot of viral diseases cause a low WBC. Anyway you can follow the link to some good information if you want

 

[TiredOldMan]

https://www.beautyofbirds.com/aviancbc.html
That link explains the blood work, sometimes the W C can drop with a sever chronic infection as the bird can't keep up with the disease, a lot of viral diseases cause a low WBC. Anyway you can follow the link to some good information if you want

Excellent link.

Thank You

 

[Jose42]

https://www.beautyofbirds.com/aviancbc.html
That link explains the blood work, sometimes the W C can drop with a sever chronic infection as the bird can't keep up with the disease, a lot of viral diseases cause a low WBC. Anyway you can follow the link to some good information if you want

The results from the mucus came back normal. The vet says there's something abnormal going on in her sinuses. It's possibly a tumor. The vet said he could give her an injection that is used for such abnormalities. There's a chance it could help. The other option was to take her to a referral hospital and get more tests done. There's a chance she could die if she is anesthetized for one of the exams. Not much I can do. I'm taking her to get the injection tomorrow. He said it'll be a daily thing I do at home. Other than that, she's eating more; 6 times today. She seems a bit more tired and weak. She is still sleeping a lot. I gave the hospital a call to ask for prices and it's an option, but I'm afraid she will die there.

 

[Laurasea]

I'm sorry you have such a sick friend. Ok your veterinarian has been all over the place with their diagnosis!!! All of this medicine used for months can make your bird very sick, it can effect the nervous system, and the liver and kidneys as the process the medicine, as well as the beneficial Flora of the body. As medicine was given to kill bacteria, and kill yeast and fungus. Your bird may just need time to recover from all this medicines..... Ate you giving the probiotics??? Also how was this tumor diagnosed??? The veterinarian may very well be correct in the diagnosis.....but I would seek care and second opinion from a certified avain vet... What is the name of the shot?..I sure hope it is not steriods... !!! Your situation is very troubling, and I very much feel for you. I would ask your veterinarian for a copy if the medical file for your bird. Then I would go through it very carefully , I would get a gram scale sold in the kitchen department of stores like Walmart and weigh your bird every day. Please find out the bane if the shot, then do your Google homework about it, why it is used, what can happen what to expect from the shot...it's very easy to put a shot wrong as your birds body is so small .. and you don't have the right help to hold the bird while the shot is given. I just whish you didn't have to go through this, you love your bird very much and are trying to help.

 

[Jose42]

I'm sorry you have such a sick friend. Ok your veterinarian has been all over the place with their diagnosis!!! All of this medicine used for months can make your bird very sick, it can effect the nervous system, and the liver and kidneys as the process the medicine, as well as the beneficial Flora of the body. As medicine was given to kill bacteria, and kill yeast and fungus. Your bird may just need time to recover from all this medicines..... Ate you giving the probiotics??? Also how was this tumor diagnosed??? The veterinarian may very well be correct in the diagnosis.....but I would seek care and second opinion from a certified avain vet... What is the name of the shot?..I sure hope it is not steriods... !!! Your situation is very troubling, and I very much feel for you. I would ask your veterinarian for a copy if the medical file for your bird. Then I would go through it very carefully , I would get a gram scale sold in the kitchen department of stores like Walmart and weigh your bird every day. Please find out the bane if the shot, then do your Google homework about it, why it is used, what can happen what to expect from the shot...it's very easy to put a shot wrong as your birds body is so small .. and you don't have the right help to hold the bird while the shot is given. I just whish you didn't have to go through this, you love your bird very much and are trying to help.

Thank you. I am still giving her the probiotics. As for the diagnosed tumor, he says there's been quite a few birds he's gotten in that have had them. So it's just a hunch. The fact that he found that mucus tells him that it's also possible that maybe some bacteria or something that we killed off with the meds could have been there gathering bacteria or something that shouldn't be there and now it could be causing some damage. He says that maybe the usual bacteria found there are probably out of control. There's quite a few possibilities and we need more tests done to know. He also mentioned that even if I get Coco tested and she survives, the tests may not show anything since the small birds make it difficult to distinguish the good tissue and any infected or bad parts. Again, I'm reminded that because she's a lutino tiel it's not uncommon for them to be born with some kind of bad mutation or something that will make life challenging. I will ask about the injection before he injects her tomorrow. Also, I'll ask for a copy of the results. I'll see if I feel capable of giving her the shot at home. Otherwise, I'm willing to take her to the vet daily to get her shot and pay for it. I may be going crazy or whatever, but she did seem slightly better when I covered the cage today. She sounded louder. Not loud, but louder. I just got a loving vibe from her singing. Maybe it's me, but it was bittersweet. I'm guessing the scale would give me an indication on whether she may be getting better or worse right?

 

[Jose42]

I went out today to buy a vaporizer for Coco. It seems to help. Also, I'm to inject ceftazidime (maybe it's a typo, the label reads ceftazidine) twice a day for the next 7 days. I was very nervous, but it's surprisingly easy. He showed me how to do it. Coco seemed to get better within a few hours after the first injection that the vet used to demonstrate how it's done. She had one hell of an appetite when we got home. She still weighs 76 grams. Things are looking up. He let me know that he wants to reserve the hospital examinations as a last resort since it's a gamble to do those exams especially in her condition. She was more vocal today as well.

 

[Laurasea]

Great news! So I don't think tumor must mean abscess as that is an antibiotic you are giving! I hope you are feeding veggies especially ones high in vitamin A this will really help as well, cooked warm pumpkin or raw, sweet potato cooked usually like better, red , yellow or orange bell peppers and hot red chilli peppers gave the most Vitamin A. Vitamin A helps immunity and often birds who develope respiratory infections do so in part because of low vitamin A. I sure hope this is the last round of medication needed

 

[EllenD]

Okay, you need to take a minute and think here...No more medications without a diagnosis, as she's had too many already and they can make her just as sick or worse...

***If this Vet thinks she "might" have a tumor, then the next step is doing a simple plain-film x-ray of her, they get the entire body at once, it doesn't cost much, and that will IMMEDIATELY ANSWER THE TUMOR QUESTION, NO QUESTION AT ALL. When you x-ray a bird you get the entire body, so not only will they get her entire head, BUT ALSO HER LUNGS AND RESPIRATORY TRACT, which will also show if her lungs have any masses, fluid, congestion, etc. This should be automatic at this point, and honestly should have been done weeks ago with the URI symptoms she's had...

I really got to tell you that this Vet is probably making things worse for her. This Vet has already spent weeks NOT doing diagnostics and just shooting her full of meds. I don't like it...And I'm willing to bet that this injection is a Steroid?

Here's the deal: Without knowing whether she actually has "a mass", which could mean a cyst, an abscess, a tumor, or many other things, if this Vet just goes ahead and gives her a Steroid injection once a week they could actually make certain growths worse. Plus, let's say she has something that actually needs to be treated soon or it's going to either grow so large that it impedes her breathing, a nerve, etc., or that it could actually rupture without simple treatment. So this Vet goes ahead and starts Steroid or anti-inflammatory injections, which do nothing, and your bird dies in the meantime of something that could be treated, but because an x-ray was never done you'll never know about it...

My biggest issue here is that a simple plain-film x-ray is usually one of the very first things that are done with a bird having URI/lung or sinus symptoms, and honestly I thought, or maybe just assumed that they had already done an x-ray at her very first appointment and found that her lungs were clear with no fluid or congestion/growths, and there were no growths or abnormalities anywhere else. So I didn't even mention it...Seriously, my Quaker Parrot had a horrible Upper Respiratory Infection almost 2 years ago, I made an appointment with my CAV the minute I felt something was wrong, and her symptoms on the day I took her in were "an occasional sneeze and/or cough maybe 5-10 times a day". That was it. She had no nasal discharge, no mucous in her mouth, she didn't "look" sick, she was eating, drinking, playing, flying, etc. all normally, she was just coughing and sneezing once in a while. No wheezing or breathing issues...And when we got to her very first appointment with my CAV, he weighed her, did a complete and thorough physical exam/visual exam, and then he said "Ok, well let's get some cultures from her nares, throat, and then a Fecal too just because we should while she's here, and let's get a normal radiograph to look at her lungs, her sinuses, her air sacs, and her ears". And 30 minutes later she was back, x-ray was clear, no lung infection/pneumonia or masses anywhere, and he said he saw bacteria and white cells under the scope from her nare culture/flush, and we got meds to nebulize...But the x-ray (radiograph) was the first thing he did...

So bottom-line here, and this should make sense to you, is IF this Vet actually told you that your bird might have a "mass" or a "tumor" somewhere in her sinuses, the very next words out of her mouth should have been "I want to get an x-ray to confirm or rule this out.", not "Let's put her on yet another medication on a "wait and see if it helps without knowing what is wrong" basis"...I can't even believe that they wouldn't have already done an x-ray with as long as she's been sick with respiratory symptoms, GI symptoms, etc., I just assumed that an x-ray had already been done and was clear...

****And as far as the "anesthesia" for doing an x-ray goes, it's extremely safe. They use an ultra-short-acting gas that literally lasts just long enough for them to shoot an x-ray and that's it. It's not anything like regular anesthesia like you're thinking, like they use for surgery. They literally take the bird in the back, put her head inside of a clear, plastic "cone" that is hooked-up to the gas, your bird slowly falls asleep in 30 seconds to a minute, they rush her over to the x-ray machine, put her on the plate and stretch her wings/legs out so they get her entire body, they shoot the x-ray, and then they usually will hold them in a towel until they wake up fully, and put them in a heated incubator for maybe 10 minutes or so if they're cold, if not she comes right back to you. That's it. I've had it done to all of my birds, including my little Budgies, as they all go to my CAV for a full Wellness-Exam once a year that includes an exam, a Fecal Culture, routine Blood-Work, and an x-ray. And honestly, if this Vet is that concerned about your bird even being put-under with the Iso gas in order to take an x-ray, then they should know that it is very possible to take an x-ray of a little bird like a Cockatiel while they are awake, especially a sick one that isn't as frisky as normal. All it requires is two people,
one to hold her down on the plate and the other to hold her wings out, and often they actually have the owner be one of the people because it helps to keep them calmer. And in this particular situation it's just that important that an x-ray be done...

Listen, I know you are worried to death and totally frustrated, and honestly I'm frustrated beyond belief with this Vet of yours, because I cannot believe that your poor little Cockatiel has been this sick with respiratory symptoms for so long, like what, 2 months long?, and the very first thing they did was give her Doxycycline shots for multiple weeks without doing any tests at all, not even a Fecal or a sinus culture, and then when multiple weeks of the Doxycycline guess didn't work, THEN you had to come here for information and then go in and actually tell the vet that you wanted the most basic diagnostic tests done instead of just pumping her full of more prescription medications on a hunch or a "try and see" basis; And now that the most basic diagnostic tests showed nothing, now this Vet told you that "she might have a mass",
and wants to shoot her full of more medications ON A GUESS, without doing a simple x-ray that would 100% rule-out or confirm "some kind of mass" anywhere in her body,
and would also show whether or not her lungs have any fluid, masses, etc. along with her air sacs, and also show whether her liver is enlarged, her kidneys are enlarged, whether her UR tract and/or her GI Tract is inflamed, etc. It's time for this Vet to stop guessing...

Is there another Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet that you can get a second-opinion from? That would be exactly what I would do, like right now. You can have all of her records and all of the test results like the blood-work and the cultures sent right over to the new Vet's office digitally, so that will save the new Vet from doing any of these tests again (unless they see something that this first Vet missed in the results), and the new Vet will also have a record/list of all of the medications this vet has put her on, the doses, the length of the rounds, etc., so assuming that you can find a CAV that knows what they're doing, they'll be able to look at what medications/antibiotics she's taken and be able to tell just from that what conditions she doesn't have...That's exactly what I would do, and what most people would do at this point BEFORE shooting your bird full of more meds on a "try and see" basis...

****I would look at it this way: This Vet gave your bird multiple shots of Doxycycline without doing ANY tests or having any idea what was wrong with her, right? And what happened as a result of that first guess they made? Well, not only did the Doxycycline not help one bit because it was not necessary since she doesn't have a Bacterial infection at all, so she took a very strong, potent antibiotic for weeks and weeks for absolutely no reason, AND IT CAUSED HER TO DEVELOP A FUNGAL INFECTION THAT SHE WOULD NEVER HAVE GOTTEN!!! And now this same Vet is going "Maybe she has a mass, no way to know, but let's now put her on ANOTHER DRUG ON A GUESS by injection once a week, and let another month go by with your bird suffering, not knowing whether THIS DRUG will help or not, will make her worse or not, will cause new issues or not, and in the meantime we'll let another month go by with her suffering. Do you understand where I'm coming from? This Vet is once again doing the same thing, she's guessing and doing the "try this and see" thing again. This time with steroids. You can't do this to her again...I mean, you can, she's your bird, but it makes absolutely no sense to do the same thing again that you were so angry about before...You were pissed when you realized that this Vet had no idea what was wrong with your bird, had done no tests, and had pumped her full of drugs on a guess/try and see basis for weeks and weeks. So why would you do it to her again? And this time with a type of drug that can cause her kidneys great damage, among other problems, such as "Cushings Disease", which is often a result of long-term steroids or cortisone shots.

She's your bird, but this is ridiculous now. Either demand that this Vet take an x-ray BEFORE giving her any other medications for a "pretend mass" that may or may not exist, or better yet take her to a different Certified Avian Vet, have her records/test results transferred to the new CAV, and get a second opinion. And we can help you find the nearest CAV to you...

 

[Jose42]

Thanks for the information. However, the medication isn't a steroid. It's an antibiotic. Frankly, it seems to be working well. She's eating well. She's vocal. When she got that first injection she showed signs of improvement when we got home. It's like a 30 minute drive. But you have a point. And I do have a concern. Do cockatiels normally wipe their beaks against the cage to clean their beaks after eating? To be honest, before this ordeal I don't remember her doing this. Also, the vet turns out to be a CAV. He feels pretty sure the doxy shots and oral meds did get rid of the first infection she had, but this may have been a cause of her symptoms at the same time. I'm fairly confident in his ability. I mean he has contributed to a lot of books. When I was there I asked him to repeat a lot of the information he said over the phone. And to sum it up, he's fairly confident that the usual bacteria in her sinuses are causing this issue now, hence why he prescribed the antibiotic. In his opinion, Coco appeared to frail to get x-rays done. He was especially concerned about her because this is a breathing issue. Still, I appreciate your help. I'm taking her in for a progress check maybe Saturday or Monday. I need to make the appointment. You've definitely given me a lot to think about. I may have some questions for him.

 

[Jose42]

Great news! So I don't think tumor must mean abscess as that is an antibiotic you are giving! I hope you are feeding veggies especially ones high in vitamin A this will really help as well, cooked warm pumpkin or raw, sweet potato cooked usually like better, red , yellow or orange bell peppers and hot red chilli peppers gave the most Vitamin A. Vitamin A helps immunity and often birds who develope respiratory infections do so in part because of low vitamin A. I sure hope this is the last round of medication needed

Great advise. I'll definitely add some more of that into her diet.

 

[Jose42]

Hello again everyone. I have an update on Coco. She doesn't breathe with her beak open anymore. I wish I knew what happened Saturday when we got back from the vet. I'd love to see her eating a lot again. She eats about 5 times a day now. Maybe she is old. She still sleeps a lot. Sometimes her head hangs low. She sometimes feels me checking up on her and she adjusts herself. She likes to perch a bit high on a stick that's perpendicular when you look at her so you can see her left or right. Usually it's her left, ever since her right eye was a bit damaged, but I still find her facing right sometimes. She is hardly vocal. She only says something when she sees me. It's not loud. I've done a bit of research to see if I could find anything on how to tell her age. The two biggest things I found were that her legs should have a bigger space between them and the feathers close to her beak should be bigger. Also, some sources say they do sleep a lot more as they age. Up to 18 hours in some cases. Her head still twitches sometimes when she sleeps. I was starting to think this excessive sleeping behavior was a seasonal thing, but few people on any forum have experienced this. As I recall, none of my budgies ever did this. I mean they did, but that was when they were sick. As I've mentioned, Coco is my first and only cockatiel. Maybe their behavior differs enough for this to happen. Right now, she finished preening a bit and is back to sleeping. I should mention that when she sleeps she tries to turn her head so she's facing away from me.

 

[dhraiden]

Thanks for the update, Jose. You've really learned a lot, it shows - and you're doing good by Coco. Don't forget to just spend quality time playing and just "being" with Coco, not counting when you're busing her to CAV visits and such. Keep up the good work.

 

[Jose42]

Thanks for the update, Jose. You've really learned a lot, it shows - and you're doing good by Coco. Don't forget to just spend quality time playing and just "being" with Coco, not counting when you're busing her to CAV visits and such. Keep up the good work.

Thank you very much. It wouldn't have been possible with all thr help. I'm taking her back tomorrow for a progress check. I believe she's made a full recovery. She was playing with her toys today. She was even eating the millet. She even more vocal now. Granted it isn't like when she was young, but she seems healthy. She greets me when I come from work now. I missed that so much.

 

[Laurasea]

This is fantastic news!!!! So happy to read this! Great job great care giver. A life saved!

 

[Jose42]

So Coco seems to be doing fine. However, the vet did find she is going blind in her left eye as well. Right now, I just need to inject twice until Monday and watch her. I left a message asking what special care I would need to give her. Overall, though she is better. Thank you, everyone. We wouldn't have gotten this far if not for all your help and the vet.

 

[EllenD]

I'm so glad she's doing so much better...I'm sorry about her eye..What did the Vet say is causing her "blindness"? How did the Vet even know she is having vision issues, did she test her vision? Or did she see something like a Cataract in her eye?

 

[Jose42]

I'm so glad she's doing so much better...I'm sorry about her eye..What did the Vet say is causing her "blindness"? How did the Vet even know she is having vision issues, did she test her vision? Or did she see something like a Cataract in her eye?

He said that she hardly reacted at all when he shined a light at any distance on her right eye. On the left eye she did hiss when as he got closer. He also noticed it was a little cloudy. It doesn't seem to be affecting her behavior much. She still eats plenty. About 7 times a day to average it out. Only difference is she does seem to have trouble recognizing me so she hisses a little until she "feels" it's me. I guess she recognizes the way I clean her cage or talk or something along those lines. Also, she isn't as vocal as before, but she still plays.

 

[Laurasea]

Jose, it might have been better to continue this thread, so people already Know the back story on the open mouth breathing. Sure am sorry to hear she is not well!!